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Old 06-05-2012, 11:38 AM   #151
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I saw the first episode before I read the book(s) and I could completely tell that the girl hanging in the tree and the white walker were not one in the same. The white walker was much taller, quicker (the girls was just dead), ...
I am much taller and quicker than my 9 year old daughter; but I'm pretty sure we're the same species
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #152
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Holy crap. I've watched that opening scene at least 25 times. And it wasn't until just now (after having watched it at least 5 times today) that I just now realized....while there was that one shadowed white walker cutting off the dudes head, there was a 2nd one in the background, less shadowed and more monster like. How the hell could I watch that scene so many times without even seeing him?
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:43 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by audioscience View Post
I saw the first episode before I read the book(s) and I could completely tell that the girl hanging in the tree and the white walker were not one in the same.
Same here


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But the "shadow creature" showed no signs of being different than the girl. You couldn't see any features because it was dark and in the shadow, but what you could see was that it had the same blue eyes as her, and the silhouette otherwise looked like a normal human. I see nothing there to indicate that they are 2 different types of creatures.

Even so, did you not see the difference in the last scene this week? It was pretty clear that the two things on horseback were different than those walking/shuffling.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:48 AM   #154
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Even so, did you not see the difference in the last scene this week? It was pretty clear that the two things on horseback were different than those walking/shuffling.
Yeah, we clearly see a difference this week. Though like I said, how do we know it's not something mystical like the zombies stealking the life force from their victims until they gradually take their final form (that idea has been used in movies at least a few times before). Of course, that appears not to be the case, since book readers have indicated they are clearly 2 different creatures, so that theory is moot.

But that aside, my point was that everyone seems to have known before this episode that there were 2 different types of the creature, and I'm just not sure how.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:50 AM   #155
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FYI, Joffrey sits on the throne that way because the throne is made to be uncomfortable. In the books it goes into much more detail how it's uncomfortable and in fact some have cut themselves on it.

Also, I am watching Dr Who and was amused to find that the bald warlock guy was in the Dr Who episode where Queen Victoria is attacked by an alien werewolf and then forms Torchwood.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #156
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FYI, Joffrey sits on the throne that way because the throne is made to be uncomfortable. In the books it goes into much more detail how it's uncomfortable and in fact some have cut themselves on it.
This is why I need to read the books. I feel like we are missing out on so much back story it's ruining the experience the author intended. This season seems so much under par compared to the first for me. It just didn't have any Jaw dropping moments for me. Does any thing this season compare to Bran interrupting Cerci and Jamie? How about Ned losing his head? The Dragons hatching? It just seems so rushed and condensed.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #157
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This is why I need to read the books. I feel like we are missing out on so much back story it's ruining the experience the author intended. This season seems so much under par compared to the first for me. It just didn't have any Jaw dropping moments for me. Does any thing this season compare to Bran interrupting Cerci and Jamie? How about Ned losing his head? The Dragons hatching? It just seems so rushed and condensed.
I would say the book itself does not contain the same jaw-dropping aspects as the first book. It's excellent points lie in the Tyrion KL scenes of him outwitting Cersei or Littlefinger, developing a 'friendship' with Varys, and then ultimately saving the city with his cunning.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:00 PM   #158
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Wait, Renly getting killed by a shadow monster wasn't a high point?
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #159
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #160
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Wait, Renly getting killed by a shadow monster wasn't a high point?
Yeah, I think there was tons of stuff this season on par with last season. Renly's death was just awesome. The whole battle of episode 9 was amazing (especialy the wildfire). The finale ending was great. I thought the introduction of Stannis was handled nicely. Tyrions role this season was better than last. We saw Joffrey not just get a slap, but a cowpie. Seeing Harrenhall was just impressive. And I loved the interactions between Tywin and Arya.

One thing I have noticed is that the first season felt a little deeper to me, in that I caught a lot more stuff on my second time through. This season I'm catching most stuff on my first watch. However, I think a lot of that is just that I've got a much better understanding of the show, who is who, whats going on, etc than I did in the first season.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #161
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Holy crap. I've watched that opening scene at least 25 times. And it wasn't until just now (after having watched it at least 5 times today) that I just now realized....while there was that one shadowed white walker cutting off the dudes head, there was a 2nd one in the background, less shadowed and more monster like. How the hell could I watch that scene so many times without even seeing him?
I don't remember that either. The problem is your'e focused on the white walker holding the head.


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Old 06-05-2012, 12:43 PM   #162
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This is why I need to read the books. I feel like we are missing out on so much back story it's ruining the experience the author intended. This season seems so much under par compared to the first for me. It just didn't have any Jaw dropping moments for me. Does any thing this season compare to Bran interrupting Cerci and Jamie? How about Ned losing his head? The Dragons hatching? It just seems so rushed and condensed.
Don't forget, "A crown for a king." One of my favorite scenes from season one.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #163
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I can see that they have perhaps not been 100% explicit about the differences between a white walker and a wight (zombie). That being said, there have been pretty clear differences in how they've been portrayed in the show. Clearly there are reanimated corpses (ie the one that attacked Mormont) that are very zombie-esque except with a bit more purpose. Then we have also seen the white walkers, with their glowing blue eyes and much more normal actions/interactions.
This says it better than I could.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #164
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This is why I need to read the books. I feel like we are missing out on so much back story it's ruining the experience the author intended. This season seems so much under par compared to the first for me. It just didn't have any Jaw dropping moments for me. Does any thing this season compare to Bran interrupting Cerci and Jamie? How about Ned losing his head? The Dragons hatching? It just seems so rushed and condensed.
I agree we didn't get as many OMG! moments this season but even so, I thought it was just as good and just as short.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:37 PM   #165
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I can see that they have perhaps not been 100% explicit about the differences between a white walker and a wight (zombie). That being said, there have been pretty clear differences in how they've been portrayed in the show. Clearly there are reanimated corpses (ie the one that attacked Mormont) that are very zombie-esque except with a bit more purpose. Then we have also seen the white walkers, with their glowing blue eyes and much more normal actions/interactions.
Except in episode 1, the girl (who was clearly a "zombie") also had the glowing blue eyes. However, when John snow fought off the zombie at the wall, that one didn't have glowing eyes as far as I can tell. Now sure what to make of that inconsistency.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #166
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One thing I have noticed is that the first season felt a little deeper to me, in that I caught a lot more stuff on my second time through. This season I'm catching most stuff on my first watch. However, I think a lot of that is just that I've got a much better understanding of the show, who is who, whats going on, etc than I did in the first season.
I think you have it exactly right.

The first season was a lot harder because I would spend the first 5-10 seconds of every scene wondering "who the hell is that again?" or trying to tell the difference between Theon and Robb or Jon. On my second watch - much like the second season - I didn't have that anxiety.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:55 PM   #167
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Except in episode 1, the girl (who was clearly a "zombie") also had the glowing blue eyes. However, when John snow fought off the zombie at the wall, that one didn't have glowing eyes as far as I can tell. Now sure what to make of that inconsistency.
In the books, only the white walkers are described as having glowing blue eyes.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:58 PM   #168
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Even so, did you not see the difference in the last scene this week? It was pretty clear that the two things on horseback were different than those walking/shuffling.
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Yeah, we clearly see a difference this week. Though like I said, how do we know it's not something mystical like the zombies stealking the life force from their victims until they gradually take their final form (that idea has been used in movies at least a few times before). Of course, that appears not to be the case, since book readers have indicated they are clearly 2 different creatures, so that theory is moot.

But that aside, my point was that everyone seems to have known before this episode that there were 2 different types of the creature, and I'm just not sure how.
Non-book reader here. It seems to me that it is being presented to us as if there are at least two different forms of "monsters." One is along the lines of the standard issue zombie and the others are the (as someone else described it) predator-like things, which are big, nimble, sleek but scary looking and may be undead but don't shuffle around with body parts falling off like zombies. (The thing that Jon Snow killed seemed more zombie-ish than predator-ish, but I probably need to see it again.) I also don't know if the thing on the horse at the end of the S2 finale is the same as the predator-looking dudes we saw earlier (going back to S1E1) with clothes on. I assume so, but can't say for sure. It will be interesting to see if Sam survives. If any of them were zombies as we know zombies to be, they'd have made Sam a tasty mid-afternoon snack

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Wait, Renly getting killed by a shadow monster wasn't a high point?
That was a "meh" for me. The book-readers seem much more attached to Renly than non-readers. He was on screen for what, 10 minutes, and at least eight of those were having sex with his brother-in-law. It's hard to get too invested in the character when that's all you see of him. I know he was "beloved" and "popular" because book-readers keep saying that, not because I saw it for myself on the show. If Renly's death was supposed to impact me like Ned's did - it didn't. Not even close. The smoke monster came and went so it didn't make much of an impression on me. If it's so easy to create magical killers, why stop with killing Renly?
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #169
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I think you have it exactly right.

The first season was a lot harder because I would spend the first 5-10 seconds of every scene wondering "who the hell is that again?" or trying to tell the difference between Theon and Robb or Jon. On my second watch - much like the second season - I didn't have that anxiety.
It was probably episode five or so before I realized Theon, Robb and Jon weren't the same guy.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:02 PM   #170
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Dead people don't seem to turn into zombies south of the wall (well, except for the couple who did right AT the wall). I wonder why.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #171
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Except in episode 1, the girl (who was clearly a "zombie") also had the glowing blue eyes. However, when John snow fought off the zombie at the wall, that one didn't have glowing eyes as far as I can tell. Now sure what to make of that inconsistency.
The zombie that attacked Mormont had blue eyes. I remember noting it when I watched it because it connected him to the White Walkers in the show's prologue.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:11 PM   #172
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Dead people don't seem to turn into zombies south of the wall (well, except for the couple who did right AT the wall). I wonder why.
The wall is more than just a physical barrier, magic was also used to keep "something" from coming south of the wall.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #173
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I only thought this because I know Ereth has read the books and he had a little wink in there. Makes sense when you think about it.
Ereth was not hinting at anything whatsoever. Ereth was simply making a joke about "flamethrowers" and "tiny flame breathing dragons". No more should be inferred from that statement.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #174
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The wall is more than just a physical barrier, magic was also used to keep "something" from coming south of the wall.
That makes sense; although I don't recall that being mentioned.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #175
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I also don't know if the thing on the horse at the end of the S2 finale is the same as the predator-looking dudes we saw earlier (going back to S1E1) with clothes on.
Take a look at the one behind him, on the white horse.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:51 PM   #176
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The zombie that attacked Mormont had blue eyes. I remember noting it when I watched it because it connected him to the White Walkers in the show's prologue.
On reviewing it again, they may be colored blue, but you could only tell in a few shots because most of the time he was in shadow, and they certainly didn't glow blue like in episode 1.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:06 PM   #177
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It's got to be at least a decent amount. When Cat negotiated with him, she said he agreed to give Robb his men for the war, except for the 400 he keeps to defend the bridge. I took it as 400 was just a small part of his army. So I'd guess 1000-2000 troops.
Just Frey's sons and grandsons could make a sizable army.

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Now let's see if Cercie has as an easier time with The Hand = Daddy. I bet not. Besides Tywin can't stay in Winterfell. Robb's army is bearing down on Lanister's.
I doubt if anyone will do much with Winterfell since it's burned down. And where the heck is Robb's army? Cat was giving Renley a hard time for not getting out there and fighting, but if Robb's been fighting we haven't seen it.

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You're right. I've read the books and got confused because they've changed the name. In the book the White Walkers are called "The Others."

I did some research (which will likely spoil things) and it all makes sense now.

tk
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Non-book reader here. The book-readers seem much more attached to Renly than non-readers.
I thought just the opposite. I never liked Renley (book reader) but it seemed like lots of people here were rooting for him.

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It was probably episode five or so before I realized Theon, Robb and Jon weren't the same guy.
this (I hadn't read the books yet then)
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:09 PM   #178
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What I want to know is why the White Walkers allow some to live. Like the pilot. That kid watches the WW behead his brother and tossed his head right over to him. Why was he not next? If this is something we never know I'll be upset. That's the only reason why I think poor Sam might not be toast.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:09 PM   #179
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I think you have it exactly right.

The first season was a lot harder because I would spend the first 5-10 seconds of every scene wondering "who the hell is that again?" or trying to tell the difference between Theon and Robb or Jon.
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It was probably episode five or so before I realized Theon, Robb and Jon weren't the same guy.
OMG, thank you. I am notoriously bad at recognizing people. I'm always thinking 1 person is someone else, or 2 or 3 different people are the same person. That and forgetting what names go with who and what their stories are. This show introduced a lot of different characters, which really exploited my weakness with names/faces, but especially with those 3 characters. Glad I wasn't the only one.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #180
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LOL I hate to admit this but I separated Jon Snow from the others quickly (mostly because of the bastard and him going to the wall) but for quite a few episodes I didn't know the difference between Theon and Robb. I also didn't even remember Rickon for most of the first season.
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