Game of Thrones - Season 1 & 2 Discussion

[Rob Helmerichs]

He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.

I'd say "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions"' if anything errs on the side of kindness.

[Anubys]

Originally Posted by LordKronos

Not sure I can agree with that. When he was in the tunnels with that lord or whoever from Penthos, he was encouraging having Drago attack Westeros (and soon). That would be a hell of a change for the Kingdom.

But he indicated that the realm NEEDED a war in order to stay strong. He could see that Robert was not a good peacetime king. One of those deals where you start a war to unite the people against a common enemy.

Originally Posted by LordKronos

Not sure I agree with that assessment. The closest I recall to that description was his conversation with Loras, complaining about how Robert treated him, but that seemed nothing more than a grown man tired of being treated by his older brother as if he were a child.

Further, being King isn't really what he wanted. At least it wasn't something he was after originally. Loras put the idea in his head, convinced him he was the best person for the job, and that he has the money to help him make it happen.

I think he liked the idea of playing king. He liked the theater of it (and no, this is not gay stereotyping). Cat even said it straight out, her son was out there fighting while he was sitting with his army playing out the part.

[LordKronos]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.

Actually, that's not correct. In reality, I think he got nobody killed except for himself. And Joffrey had no right to the throne either. Stannis may have, but (and I don't know if it was spelled out or I just got the impression) he seemed to have no real interest in the affairs of Westeros until he had the chance to be king. Seemed like he just withdrew to his island, and was in fact aligning himself with Melisandra from Essos. Most of the people who ended up fighting for Stannis were in fact ready to fight for Renly before he died. So you had 100k men who said "rights of succession be damned, I support Renly". Also, Robb sent Cat to see Renly, not Stannis. If everyone else supported the rightful heir, you'd think he'd be trying to ally with Stannis.

It seems like, other than the people from Dragonstone, everyone else wanted Renly more than Stannis, not matter who had rights by law.

[robojerk]

Did the show explain any of the background behind Lady Stark (Cat) and Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger).

[LordKronos]

Originally Posted by robojerk

Did the show explain any of the background behind Lady Stark (Cat) and Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger).

Yeah, there were at least a couple of scenes scattered through season 1 that explained it. One of the scenes in the whorehouse where he talked about saving himself all his life for Cat. There was also a scene (with Ned, perhaps) where he explained being cut from naval to neck in a fight over Cat. If you are asking specifically why he fell in love with her (ie: something specific that triggered his love), I don't recall whether or not that was explained.

[Aniketos]

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

2) I'm reminded of just what a bitch Cat was to and about Jon Snow. She wouldn't even allow him to eat with them all because it looked bad that the bastard be among the royalty? And the looks of disgust she gives him right in his eyes, just makes me seethe. Ugh. Hate her.

I just wanted to chime in about how much I feel the show (and the actors) do a good job of softening some of the characters. We're far enough away from the first season for me to share one line omitted from the show that was in the first book that for most readers make them hate Cat more than show watchers. I'll spoil it just in case, but honestly, it isn't.

Spoiler:

Before Jon heads to the wall he stops in to see Bran while he is still in a coma, Cat says to him "It should have been you."

She has never been able to redeem herself in my eyes from early on. Adding in capturing Tyrion (which killed Ned) and setting Jaime free and I absolutely hate Cat. (Both completely justifiable if I wasn't predisposed to hate her.)

Hell, I even feel sorry for Sansa on the show and in the books want to shake her everytime she says anything.

[Aniketos]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

Yes.

I've always found the Littlefinger Varys situation interesting. To me Littlefinger represents chaos (and attempts to gain power picking up the pieces) whereas Varys represents order and keeping the realm in tact. And of course, like all cripples, bastards, and broken things, Varys never gets his due respect.

[Rosincrans]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.

I'd say "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions"' if anything errs on the side of kindness.

Every king throughout history was either a "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement" or the descendent of one. The only reason Robert was king was because he took the kingdom by force, the Targaryens did the same before him.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Except Robert (and Ned and Tywin) took the throne because the Mad King was abusing his power, and raping and murdering Robert's fiancee (and Ned's sister) in the process.

Not because he thought he'd look good with a crown.

[robojerk]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

Except Robert (and Ned and Tywin) took the throne because the Mad King was abusing his power, and raping and murdering Robert's fiancee (and Ned's sister) in the process.

Not because he thought he'd look good with a crown.

You sure about the "Mad King" raping Ned's sister? I know King Robert thinks Rhaegar raped her, but even that is debatable since every other character besides Robert that discusses Rhaegar has nothing but nice words to say about the guy, raping doesn't seemed like something Rhaegar would do if you read what every other character says about him. And the theories

Spoiler:

Rhaegar and Ned's sister were in love, even though she was promised to Robert and Rhaegar married a Dornish princess (not for love). Similar to how Robb is breaking his own vows.

If the Mad King was 'rapey"

Spoiler:

I know the Mad King had the hots for Tywin's wife, and even made made comments about how he wished that a law allowing the king to "break in" a bride still existed, but even then there's no confirmation anything happened. There's theories like the mad king did rape Tywin's wife, and there's also some theories that Tyrion, or Jaime and Cersai are actually products of a rape. However if True I think Tywin would never let any of it be known.

[stellie93]

This is an interesting theory I've never heard before....

Spoiler:

So maybe Jamie and Cercei like incest because they're Targarians, and that's what they do? And when Dani comes with her Dragons in book 25, they will be able to stand up to them somehow?

[ozzman73]

I don't fully understand the hatred for Catelyn, some of her actions may not seem rational and mostly born out of anger. But one thing that she has said and it is a theme throughout the show (and the books 1 and 2, so far) is that a mother would do anything for her kids.

Catelyn's hate for Jon Snow is for what he represents (Ned's betrayal) not the person.

Likewise we have seen Cersei, act and say similar things that she would be willing to do anything for her kids (and she has)

And finally we have seen, Daenerys, the Mother of Dragons do as much and I can imagine we will see her act more "Mother Hen" with her dragons.

Lysa Arryn, same.

All mothers in this series act, motherly

[Rob Helmerichs]

Originally Posted by ozzman73

All mothers in this series act, motherly

But in the worst, most destructive way.

A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?

[ozzman73]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

But in the worst, most destructive way.

A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?

Without a doubt.

[photoshopgrl]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?

Your Jaqen phrasing made me giggle.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Usually in these situations I say "One wonders," but here, well, you know...

[Anubys]

Catelyn is like a tornado, bringing mayhem and destruction wherever she goes. Even poor Renly died while she was there! As I mentioned before, Ned would have had his head cut off much sooner had she been to KL with him from the onset.

I would find it all that funny except that I really don't like the casting choice and I think the actress has done a piss-poor job of acting. Whenever she is on screen, I wonder how much better the scene would be if a better actress was available.

[photoshopgrl]

Originally Posted by Anubys

Catelyn is like a tornado, bringing mayhem and destruction wherever she goes. Even poor Renly died while she was there! As I mentioned before, Ned would have had his head cut off much sooner had she been to KL with him from the onset.

Can we just keep her FAR away from Tyrion please?

[Anubys]

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

Can we just keep her FAR away from Tyrion please?

I'm pretty sure she was in the next room when he was conceived!

[photoshopgrl]

Originally Posted by Anubys

I'm pretty sure she was in the next room when he was conceived!

DOH!

[ozzman73]

I disagree with the comments about casting. The way the actress portrays a woman that has gone to a lot of hardship and now has to pick up what's left. She probably loved Littlefinger (unless he was friendzoned) then watched her future husband almost killed her best friend in a duel. Then he, himself gets killed by the King, so now she is stuck with Eddard. Learns to love him, marries him and then he goes to war. Comes back with a son. She has to raise said son, has a bunch more kids. Then one day the king comes and her husband leaves with her daughters. Then her son is almost killed, twice, when has the scars to prove it...then

Well you get the point.

[netringer]

You know I would have a MUCH harder time following GoT if I didn't have the wisdom from here. I can't imagine how anybody would have picked up on, for example early on that Theon wasn't a Stark, and what kind of ward he was. All I can remember is how Theon narrated the awarding of 5 direwolf pups to the 4+1 Starks.

[LordKronos]

Originally Posted by netringer

You know I would have a MUCH harder time following GoT if I didn't have the wisdom from here. I can't imagine how anybody would have picked up on, for example early on that Theon wasn't a Stark, and what kind of ward he was. All I can remember is how Theon narrated the awarding of 5 direwolf pups to the 4+1 Starks.

And I can see how you are still having problems, being that there are 5+1 starks: Rikkon (did you forget him?), Bran, Arya, Sansa, and Robb + John Snow.

[tlc]

George W. Bush’s decapitated head appeared on Game of Thrones
...
"The last head on the left is George Bush. George Bush's head appears in a couple of beheading scenes. It's not a choice, it's not a political statement. We just had to use whatever head we had around."

http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bush...ame-of-thrones

[allan]

Originally Posted by tlc

http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bush...ame-of-thrones

Interesting. I haven't kept up with news of ex-Presidents, but I thought, contrary to popular opinion, that Bush's head was still attached.

[robojerk]

Is it really Bush's head? I read somewhere that the head just ended up resembling Bush, someone noticed and it just became what they called it and was not intentional.

[LordKronos]

Originally Posted by robojerk

Is it really Bush's head? I read somewhere that the head just ended up resembling Bush, someone noticed and it just became what they called it and was not intentional.

Yeah, that's pretty much what the producers said here:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/168...e-w-bush.jhtml

TLDNR version - they need a bunch of heads but don't want to spend the money to make them so they rent some premade ones. They film the scene, and later someone says "That one looks like GWB"

[netringer]

Originally Posted by tlc

http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bush...ame-of-thrones

Originally Posted by allan

Interesting. I haven't kept up with news of ex-Presidents, but I thought, contrary to popular opinion, that Bush's head was still attached.

How loud has the Faux poutrage been? Demanding a Secret Service investigation?

[madscientist]

I'm far, far from an expert you understand but... it doesn't look any more like GWB than it looks like two or three guys I work with. None of whom (to my knowledge) have ever been confused with GWB.

[netringer]

Originally Posted by madscientist

I'm far, far from an expert you understand but... it doesn't look any more like GWB than it looks like two or three guys I work with. None of whom (to my knowledge) have ever been confused with GWB.

To me it looks more like Ricardo Montalban as Kahn.