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Old 01-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #1
atmuscarella
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Premiere Still Has OTA Issues

I know this question comes up every know and then so I thought I would post some pretty good evidence that the Premiere after the 20.2 software update still has OTA issues and isn't as good as either an original Series 3 HD or TiVo HD when it comes to OTA reception.

I am in the Rochester NY market all towers are in the same place about 35 miles from me and according to everything I have read I have line of site. I have a large roof mounted deep fringe antenna with a preamp with a 100 foot run of RG-6 wire. I used to use a 4-way splitter (TV, 3 TiVos) but to improve the signal I dropped back to a 2-way splitter and only use 2 TiVos. 95% of the time I don't have any reception issues and use my Premiere and TiVo HD to record everything.

I turned TV on yesterday morning (Via the Premiere) and found channel 10.1 was unwatchable and channel 21.1 was gone, switched to my TiVo HD and all channels were there with some very minor pixelation. Turned the TV back on again after work with the Premiere 10.1 was back, 21.1 was still gone and 8.1 was now not watchable again all stations were available on the TiVo HD.

Thursday is a night were I record lots of shows so I moved the antenna cable from the Premiere to my original Series 3 HD, again all channels were available with no real issues.

Re-tested everything this morning and the Premiere is still having issues with 8.1 & 21.1 (medium pixelation) and the Series 3 and TiVo HD were not.

So it is pretty clear to me that in some situations, both The original Series 3 HD and TiVo HD have superior OTA reception compared to the Premiere.

Thanks,
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #2
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Other that not using your Premiere, how do you plan on resolving this for your location?
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:10 PM   #3
atmuscarella
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Originally Posted by P42 View Post
Other that not using your Premiere, how do you plan on resolving this for your location?
About the only thing I could still do is put up a 25-30 foot tower to get the antenna higher in the air, but that is pretty big $$$ - $1500+ if I pay someone to install it.

Honestly the reception now is much better than it was when I first got my TiVo HD, it took the stations a few years to figure out digital.

At this point reception problems only show up a few times a year so my plan is to just live with it and pick up any shows that mess up with Hulu/Internet if possible (I lost Harry's Law this time which I guess I will just live without it). I am guessing the Premiere will be fine again fairly soon, maybe even tonight.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:36 PM   #4
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For my own information, how does this compare to your reception prior to the new version?
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:56 PM   #5
FiveKayFt
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Unfortunately I'm facing the same issue, although it seems like my degradation was more severe: I went from almost perfect reception on 9.1 and 7.1 to a garbled mess. Frankly, I'm surprised that the update alone would have made this much difference, but with two separate tv's/tuners on the same antenna I can't help but notice the premiere is significantly worse.

I wonder....would a signal pre-amp help to fix the issue? One major difference between the two sets is the coaxial run length. Perhaps it would be just enough to clear up the pixelation.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by FiveKayFt View Post
I wonder....would a signal pre-amp help to fix the issue? One major difference between the two sets is the coaxial run length. Perhaps it would be just enough to clear up the pixelation.
Adding an amplifier is often not helpful (or even detrimental) because it amplifies noise as well as signal. It just depends on the original signal quality. Unfortunately, there isn't much way you can tell in advance, you just have to try it and see.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
Adding an amplifier is often not helpful (or even detrimental) because it amplifies noise as well as signal. It just depends on the original signal quality. Unfortunately, there isn't much way you can tell in advance, you just have to try it and see.
I wouldn't say "often not helpful", more like it depends on your setup. If you don't have an ok signal at the antenna, using any kind of an amp won't help. You can kind of tell in advance if an amp will help, if you understand what is going on. If you have a long cable run from the antenna, a preamp will help. If you split your signal and it degrades, but is clear if run solo, a distribution amp will help.

In some cases (like mine), a preamp AND a distribution amp gives me just a touch more strength than either by itself. I have a 100 foot run to a 3 way split, which then runs to each Tivo/TV about 50-75 feet.
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:19 PM   #8
JACKASTOR
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OTA issues

I noticed that I now have duplicate over the air Channels listed in my channel guide. Every channel I get OTA has duplicate entries. Easy fix to disable the duplicates, but it would be simpler if the TiVo removed the extra channels so I dont have duplicates. ITs a minor issue and was wondering if anyone else has this experiance. Regards


jack
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKASTOR View Post
I noticed that I now have duplicate over the air Channels listed in my channel guide. Every channel I get OTA has duplicate entries. Easy fix to disable the duplicates, but it would be simpler if the TiVo removed the extra channels so I dont have duplicates. ITs a minor issue and was wondering if anyone else has this experiance. Regards


jack
FWIW , we had a similar issue in my area with duplicate OTA channels after a local station rearranged their channel mapping assignments and added subchannels. This was for people using Tivo HD boxes, but some people found a reboot removed the duplicates, while I managed to solve the problem on my HD by pressing the enter button on the channel list menu to have the Tivo re-detect my lineup. I don't know if that's an option on the premiere's menus though.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S3-2501 View Post
FWIW , we had a similar issue in my area with duplicate OTA channels after a local station rearranged their channel mapping assignments and added subchannels. This was for people using Tivo HD boxes, but some people found a reboot removed the duplicates, while I managed to solve the problem on my HD by pressing the enter button on the channel list menu to have the Tivo re-detect my lineup. I don't know if that's an option on the premiere's menus though.
I will give that a shot. It cant hurt to try:}

Thanks
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:36 AM   #11
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If those with OTA issues would go here www.tvfool.com , click "check your address for free" and copy and post the results here along with your particular issue so we could see what kind of signal strength, actual channel, distance etc you are dealing with.

My personal experience with the Tivo premiere ATSC tuner is that it is nearly as sensitive as the one in my new Sony TV. That is, if a channel is beginning to pixelate and drop out, I might see a very slight improvement by switching over to the TV tuner. It's not a night and day difference. Usually the signal is fluctuating enough that the Sony tuner is also dropping out to some degree.

Here are my TVfool results...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9107c1b42df

I'm using a Channel Master 4228 antenna with a CPA-19 preamp feeding a three way splitter, a Sony TV and Tivo Premiere in the living room, and a second Sony TV in the bedroom. Longest coax run is to the bedroom totaling 110'.
I get reliable reception of all major network channels with my antenna aimed at 210 degrees. I also get a local independent station WMFD (68.1) thru the back of the antenna. The CW channel (53.1) is the farthest at 65.5 miles. The weakest channel I receive is W23BZ (23.1), look way down the chart for that one. Certain weather conditions will cause this channel to drop out. It's a low powered channel to start with. I had to call Tivo support and have them add it to my program guide. This is the channel I use to compare Tivo and Sony tuners.

I'm curious to see TVfool reports and equipment descriptions for those having OTA issues.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:03 PM   #12
atmuscarella
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phone man:

My setup is:
  1. Channel Master CM 3671 Deepest Fringe Crossfire Series Antenna mounted about 20 foot up.
  2. Channel Master CM 7777 Titan2 VHF/UHF Preamplifier
  3. Choice Select CH05001 Antenna Rotor System
  4. 100 foot run of RG6 Coax
Everything was installed new in 2006.

The following is the TV Fool data for my home. I get channels 8.1, 10.1, 13.1, 21.1, 31.1, & 51.1 and their sub channels.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9af0b600194
I have lived at this location for 23 years and I am on my second antenna set up and have always had reception issues at certain times. So I tend to think TV Fools results are well - foolish as they seem to indicate that all I need is an indoor antenna .

Thanks,
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:26 PM   #13
phone man
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I have no explaination as to why one Tivo unit performs one way and another in a different way with the very same signal. One thing that does stand out about your report is the possible conflict of a very strong preamp with a very strong local channel, 51.1. That overload will affect all other channels. Have you ever removed the preamp and power inserter just to see what difference it makes?
I know this isn't the best time of year to be up on a TV tower or rooftop but assuming your system is otherwise healthy, I'd bet a less powerful preamp or none at all would work better than one that's too strong. I was advised not to use the 7777 preamp for that very reason and my strongest station is much weaker than yours.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #14
atmuscarella
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Originally Posted by phone man View Post
I have no explaination as to why one Tivo unit performs one way and another in a different way with the very same signal. One thing that does stand out about your report is the possible conflict of a very strong preamp with a very strong local channel, 51.1. That overload will affect all other channels. Have you ever removed the preamp and power inserter just to see what difference it makes?
I know this isn't the best time of year to be up on a TV tower or rooftop but assuming your system is otherwise healthy, I'd bet a less powerful preamp or none at all would work better than one that's too strong. I was advised not to use the 7777 preamp for that very reason and my strongest station is much weaker than yours.
I have actually thought about trying it without the pre-amp it will have to wait a few months. Everything had been working great for a long time, I had hopes of not needing to do anything.

Just test them again and the Premiere is still not getting 21.1 and gets a very week signal on 8.1. The 2 Series 3 units are just fine both on 21.1 and 8.1. The signals are weaker on those stations than the others but still in the upper 60s on the series 3 units.

This is the first time the Premiere has gone so long with these reception issues, I am beginning to think it was the 20.2 software, glad I kept both Series 3 units, I was going to sell one as I really only need to 2 DVRs.
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R.I.P. - 04/04 - Dish 510
09/05 - Humax T-800
R.I.P. - 08/06 - TiVo
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:13 PM   #15
phone man
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One more thought... Do you have a clear view to the northeast? Any large buildings, trees, etc within 500' in that direction? I don't a problem with multipath but I've heard some tuners, including those in the Tivo Premiere do.
It could be BS but I've read that here and on other forums. It could explain the difference between Tivo units receiving the same OTA signal. Still, my money is on the preamp issue.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:19 PM   #16
atmuscarella
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Well this last update also did nothing to fix the Premieres OTA reception problems. After everything working fine for a few months I am 3 days into having one of my channels either be unusable or not there at all (10.1-3) right now the Premiere shows no single strength and cannot lock onto the channel at all.

My Series 3 has no issues at all with the channel, neither does my TV and I recently purchased a SilconDust HDHomeRun on a woot.com deal and it is also having no issues with the channel. The signal strength for the missing channel is showing a little lower than other channels on my other devices (Series 3, TV, & HdHomeRun) but not much.

I guess I am going to have to keep both my Series 3 TiVos for the days when the Premiere can not figure it out.

If TiVo can not get their sh** together maybe they should just leave OTA out of future products to reduce the costs and just get an app to use a HDHomeRun for those who want OTA with TiVo.
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05/08 - TiVo HD
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03/10 - Series 3
11/10 - Premiere
09/13 - Roamio
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