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Old 05-29-2012, 03:37 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Cearbhaill View Post
The very first thing I noticed was that the topography was ALL wrong- the hills were wrong and the trees were wrong.

I don't know where this was filmed but it is not representative of those hills at all. We have TREES, tons of 'em, everywhere. Enormous oaks, ancient hickories, and understory trees enough that you can't walk two feet.
That clearing where the McCoy's house sat?
No flat space that big even exists in the hills of that region. And those wide cart paths? No. I have trudged up and down the hills in Pike Co. KY and Mingo Co. WV and every inch is thick with undergrowth.
Not right!

I know this is irrelevant to the story being told and I know it's not discussion worthy but I could not get past it. I understand production costs and the need to go where ever to film. It's just me and my extreme love of the area plus a bit of a tree obsession.
The harder I tried to let it go the more I became fixated on it to the point I kept having to rewind to follow the story.

I'll watch it again tonight with hub and try my best to overcome my ridiculousness, but it took me too far out of the story. The topography of the region contributed greatly to the nature of the people living within it, especially during Civil War times when fear and distrust and clannishness was at its height.
Damn me and my southeastern Kentucky childhood!
There are tress now, but were there that many trees 150 years ago? A lot of trees can grow in 150 years.

I remember looking at old photos of my grandfather etc, and their were not many trees around their property at that time.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:26 PM   #62
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I was a little disappointed to see it turn into Romeo and Juliet, is the relationship shown based in any fact or is this just a retread of the Montagues and Capulets?

EDIT: Wikipedia says that there was a relationship between those depicted on the show.

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Old 05-29-2012, 05:28 PM   #63
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There are tress now, but were there that many trees 150 years ago? A lot of trees can grow in 150 years.

I remember looking at old photos of my grandfather etc, and their were not many trees around their property at that time.
Same thing with a lot of old civil war battlefields. Many battles were fought on clear land that is now covered by trees.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:45 PM   #64
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Not a western!

Hatfield and McCoy feud gave us the Hillbilly stereotype. That is not western.
It's not a western in the strictest sense (in particular location) but it shares quite a few elements of one. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The Western genre sometimes portrays the conquest of the wilderness and the subordination of nature in the name of civilization or the confiscation of the territorial rights of the original inhabitants of the frontier. The Western depicts a society organized around codes of honor and personal, direct or private justice (such as the feud]), rather than one organized around rationalistic, abstract law, in which social order is maintained predominately through relatively impersonal institutions. The popular perception of the Western is a story that centers on the life of a semi-nomadic wanderer, usually a cowboy or a gunfighter.[1]
The bolded part definitely is where Hatfields & McCoys shares a commonality with the typical western. Change the names to say, "Smiths and Joneses" and change the setting to the California Gold Country and story would still make sense.

You also have to remember at that time, the overwhelming majority of the population still lived along the eastern coast of the US. The area between the Mississippi River and the west coast of the US was one big no-mans-land (at least from the white man's perspective). "Western United States" at that time probably meant anything west of the Appalachians.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:15 PM   #65
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You also have to remember at that time, the overwhelming majority of the population still lived along the eastern coast of the US. The area between the Mississippi River and the west coast of the US was one big no-mans-land (at least from the white man's perspective). "Western United States" at that time probably meant anything west of the Appalachians.
This.
The Cumberland Gap was only a footpath until Daniel Boone and his merry men used it in their explorations- I don't even think it was wide enough to accommodate a wagon until years later.
When Kentucky was granted statehood in 1792 it was considered the first state in the "western frontier."
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:51 PM   #66
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That's why "Mid-West" traditionally refers to Eastern states, and the geographical mid-west of the US is often called "Upper Mid-West" to distinguish it from the Mid-West in the East.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:32 PM   #67
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I wanted tp watch but knew too late to Tivo.

Actually, I was hoping it was a documentary. Btut I might enjoy this too.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #68
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Check your guide they are repeating the heck out it.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by vertigo235 View Post
There are tress now, but were there that many trees 150 years ago? A lot of trees can grow in 150 years.

I remember looking at old photos of my grandfather etc, and their were not many trees around their property at that time.
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Same thing with a lot of old civil war battlefields. Many battles were fought on clear land that is now covered by trees.
Many people forget (or are not aware of) exactly how many trees were felled in these areas during the Civil War in support of the war effort (or were simply torched). It would make sense that there were more trees 120-150 years after the Civil War than there were in the couple of decades immediately following.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:27 PM   #70
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So did Paul Revere.
Paul Revere had a six shooter? Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_shooter
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:29 PM   #71
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3 nights in a row. 2 hours each night.
actually, at least on the first two nights, the first airing or two has a slightly odd amount -- a few over 2 hours.. and at least one of the reruns of episode 1 is like 1:50..

Even though it's very very likely that there's simply EXTRA commercials in these longer airings, I didn't take my chances, and recorded the second airing of part 1.. Whew, most of the late night shows are reruns this week.

It wasn't the most entertaining thing in the world, but it was good. If I had upgraded my Tivo drive over the weekend, I probably would record it all for later.. As it is, I'm probably going to watch them each night.. (don't have the room to offload them either.)
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:08 AM   #72
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I wanted tp watch but knew too late to Tivo.
History is repeating Part 1 and Part 2 before they air Part 3 on Wednesday night. All this Costner-esque magnificence starts at 5 PM, but check your local listings.

Quote:
Actually, I was hoping it was a documentary.
The channel best known for Pawn Stars, Top Shot, lumberjacks, and rednecks in swamps I think long abandoned the documentary format to its H2 (formerly known as History International) subchannel, save for the occasional Nazi piece.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:01 AM   #73
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After watching episode one, I couldn't help but thinking that Johnse Hatfield beat out Game Of Throne's Jon Snow for the Dumbest Young Man On TV award.

This was good. Looking forward to parts 2 and 3.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:40 AM   #74
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Same thing with a lot of old civil war battlefields. Many battles were fought on clear land that is now covered by trees.
You're thinking about the big battlefields in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Southeastern Kentucky and adjacent West Virginia is not like that at all.
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Many people forget (or are not aware of) exactly how many trees were felled in these areas during the Civil War in support of the war effort (or were simply torched). It would make sense that there were more trees 120-150 years after the Civil War than there were in the couple of decades immediately following.
I can tell the difference between cleared forest land and plains.
And clearing trees doesn't change the topography- hills, man.
Hills. Valleys. You're either walking uphill or downhill.
It doesn't change the species growing.
And cleared areas don't just magically stay cleared- undergrowth comes right back at you the next day- I battle it in my own woods. It would take a chain gang on constant duty to keep the verges of those roads as clear as the road near Hatfield's timber operation appeared to be. It is very difficult to keep up with.
And real logging roads were even worse- they were hardly more than trails.

The long shots are clearly not KY and WV- that's all I'm saying.
I can tell the difference.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:57 AM   #75
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The long shots are clearly not KY and WV- that's all I'm saying.
I can tell the difference.
I guess KY and WY should take pride in the fact that they're too modern to shoot Civil War-era movies in...
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:30 AM   #76
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You're thinking about the big battlefields in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Southeastern Kentucky and adjacent West Virginia is not like that at all.


I can tell the difference between cleared forest land and plains.
And clearing trees doesn't change the topography- hills, man.
Hills. Valleys. You're either walking uphill or downhill.
It doesn't change the species growing.
And cleared areas don't just magically stay cleared- undergrowth comes right back at you the next day- I battle it in my own woods. It would take a chain gang on constant duty to keep the verges of those roads as clear as the road near Hatfield's timber operation appeared to be. It is very difficult to keep up with.
And real logging roads were even worse- they were hardly more than trails.

The long shots are clearly not KY and WV- that's all I'm saying.
I can tell the difference.
I think yours is a typical problem a lot of us have when a show takes place in an area you're familiar with but is filmed elsewhere. As someone who's familiar with NYC and the surrounding areas, I find the same issues when they film a scene that's suppose to be NY in Vancouver or Toronto. While, yeah, there's BIG BUILDINGS, I can look at the street scape and know it's all wrong. And similarly, a show like The Good Wife which takes place in Chicago but is filmed in NY is laughable to me, as I notice things that are to me obviously NY but is supposed to be Chicago. I remember one scene where they showed a wide shot of them talking on the street and in the background were the subway yards with an obviously NYC subway train coming down the tracks. Must have looked even stranger to someone from Chi-Town.

Anyway, since I'm not effected by this for H&M, I really enjoyed it. I did have to put on the subtitles to understand some of the lingo. I think it's also a big drawn out. Don't know why, but I find myself rooting for the Hatfields. One, because I think Devil Anse (Costner's character) seems more level headed than Randall McCoy (Bill Paxton's character). Second, I like that the Hatfield Judge seems like a fair sort.

(Are we allowing spoilers in this thread or should we start another?)
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:47 AM   #77
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William Anderson "Devil Anse" Hatfield. Anybody have any idea what "Devil Anse" means? I looked him up on wikipedia but the article said nothing about his name.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:12 AM   #78
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Anse is short for Anderson (like "Ran'l" is short for Randolph). I think "Devil Anse" was to distinguish him from a relative; Wikipedia talks about "Preacher Anse" who was the judge in the pig case.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:17 AM   #79
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William Anderson "Devil Anse" Hatfield. Anybody have any idea what "Devil Anse" means? I looked him up on wikipedia but the article said nothing about his name.
I don't know the devil part, but "Anse" seems to be an abbreviation of Anderson. There is a "Deacon Anse" or "Preacher Anse" in the family tree too and his name is Anderson.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:36 AM   #80
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I fully realize that this is of no importance to anyone other than me, but this footage is FAR more representative of the topography of that area. Helen Keller could see the difference.

I think that I feel as if Kentucky has been misrepresented- it is far more beautiful than where ever this show was filmed.
FAR.
Clearings are tiny, trees are huge.

140-150 years ago is nothing- it can't have been all that different.

KY


I know it is irrelevant.
If y'all would ignore me I'd stop
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #81
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If the show has only half it's facts straight, I'm really feeling sympathetic towards the McCoys. I wonder whether the show's written by a McCoy descendant or sympathizer or was it really pretty much that the Hatfields were just that evil.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #82
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After watching episode one, I couldn't help but thinking that Johnse Hatfield beat out Game Of Throne's Jon Snow for the Dumbest Young Man On TV award.

This was good. Looking forward to parts 2 and 3.
I never thought of Jon Snow as dumb, but haven't read the books in ages and don't get HBO, so I won't argue And Johnse gets ever DUMBER in the second part. I'm not sure how he can top Part 2's dumbness in part three!

BTW, has anyone looked at pics of the real players? The image I found for Jonse was dang creepy, and Roseanna was anything but a raving beauty!
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:44 AM   #83
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I never thought of Jon Snow as dumb, but haven't read the books in ages and don't get HBO, so I won't argue And Johnse gets ever DUMBER in the second part. I'm not sure how he can top Part 2's dumbness in part three!

BTW, has anyone looked at pics of the real players? The image I found for Jonse was dang creepy, and Roseanna was anything but a raving beauty!
so they don't really look like this?


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Old 05-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #84
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BTW, has anyone looked at pics of the real players? The image I found for Jonse was dang creepy, and Roseanna was anything but a raving beauty!
Roseanna's not too shabby looking on this web page:
http://blueridgecountry.com/archive/...nd-mccoys.html
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:26 AM   #85
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The terrain is important. We don't get the feeling of the total hard scrabble existance until we would see the almost unihabitable terrain.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:51 PM   #86
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Hatfields & McCoys attracts 14 million viewers

Setting a record for a basic cable non-sports event...
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:27 PM   #87
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I've only watched Part One so far but I think its quite good! I have a question though and I don't know if spoilers are OK in this thread so just in case I put it under spoiler tags:

Spoiler:

In one of the early scenes there's a guy at the bar in a Union jacket. At a table are a bunch of guys we find out later are Hatfields. Words are traded back and forth and the guy with the Union jacket leaves, barely missing being shot. Later on one of the guys from the table goes to the other guys home and kills him. We later find out the guy killed is the brother of Randall McCoy. Do I have my facts right? If so, I'm confused as to why Randall's brother had a Union jacket on when Randall and Anse Hatfield were definitely fighting together with the Confederacy. Did Randall actually fight with the Union?




Anyway, great show!

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Old 05-30-2012, 06:09 PM   #88
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There was mention after his death that it could be difficult to prove who killed him since even some of his "kin" could have wanted him dead. He did fight for the Union even though his brother was a Confederate. It wasn't unheard of during the Civil War for families to be divided and brother fighting brother.

To your post: Randle Mc Coy didn't fight for the Union, but his brother Asa Harmon McCoy did.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:17 PM   #89
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They were in a pretty divided area...in fact, the reason West Virginia exists is because most people there didn't want to succeed with the rest of Virgina. But the Hatfields lived on the West Virginia side of the river and mostly fought for the Confederacy, and the McCoys in Kentucky where the state was so divided it never really took a side.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:52 PM   #90
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If the show has only half it's facts straight, I'm really feeling sympathetic towards the McCoys. I wonder whether the show's written by a McCoy descendant or sympathizer or was it really pretty much that the Hatfields were just that evil.
I'm still holding these in their folder. How are you guys liking it so far? I'm kind of sensitive to extreme cruelty (like killing people's kids in front of them, stuff like that). Is this a "family friendly" type show or it "pretty bad" with all the blood, cruelty and killing? In other words, is this thing going haunt me?
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