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Old 05-23-2012, 01:40 PM   #31
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IN 2013 the box had better be able to scale to 1080P60. Otherwise that would just be absurd. I've been inputting 1080P60 into my main HDTV since 2005. In the year 2013 no HD device should be limited to 1080P24 pass through as the max resolution.
It's absurd already--any crap $60 BD player can do this; every BD player ever made can.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:26 PM   #32
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And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.

Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:52 PM   #33
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And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.

Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.

Netflix streaming is the main reason it is needed in my use. Of course if they changed it so it would only stream at 1080P24, then that would be the best option for me to allow my DUO to continue to be used for scaling.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:50 PM   #34
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More TiVo Tidbits From The Cable Show

From Gizmo:

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2012/05/2...he-cable-show/
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #35
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And any decent AVR made in the last year or two can convert any resolution out of the TiVo to any resolution that you want to send to your display.

Until broadcasters support 1080p/60 (they don't) there's no reason for TiVo to support it.
As has been pointed out ad nauseum in various threads in these forums, TiVo is the "One Box"--it's not about just broadcast television anymore. Again, it doesn't need to output p60; conversion to i30 would do, though p60 would be better. All four other devices that I own which can play 1080p24 Netflix can convert to p60 (2 BD players, a PS3 and a Roku 2; only one of them can output it as p24). You shouldn't have to buy a recent model AVR to make up for this bizarre design deficiency.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:45 PM   #36
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As has been pointed out ad nauseum in various threads in these forums, TiVo is the "One Box"--it's not about just broadcast television anymore. Again, it doesn't need to output p60; conversion to i30 would do, though p60 would be better. All four other devices that I own which can play 1080p24 Netflix can convert to p60 (2 BD players, a PS3 and a Roku 2; only one of them can output it as p24). You shouldn't have to buy a recent model AVR to make up for this bizarre design deficiency.
If TiVo is trying to be the "one box" then they are failing miserably and should address content issues before they worry about piddly issues like supporting 1080p/60.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:01 PM   #37
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If TiVo is trying to be the "one box" then they are failing miserably and should address content issues before they worry about piddly issues like supporting 1080p/60.
It's only "piddly" if it doesn't affect you. Unlike other deficiencies of TiVo-as-the-"One Box", it's probably something which can only be dealt with in hardware, which is why I brought it up in this thread. Creating another generation of boxes which are physically incapable of outputting a 1080p24 stream as i30 or p60 would be ridiculous.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:20 PM   #38
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8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners'
What exactly are these? Does this mean something like U-verse?
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #39
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What exactly are these? Does this mean something like U-verse?
DOCSIS is cablemodem tech (Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification).
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:18 AM   #40
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Im not going to buy one if it does not have ota and 4 tuners

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I guess I don't have any issue with TiVo developing a "whole Home Solution" but honestly I hope they also stay with and update a basic 2 tuner solution that still supports OTA.

I actually like having multiple DVRs (all of mine are connect to the same TV); Redundancy is a great thing .

I would be interested in a "Series 5" that improved on the Premiere's OTA reception, general performance, and provided the functionality of the up coming "Stream" device.

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Old 05-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #41
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It's only "piddly" if it doesn't affect you. Unlike other deficiencies of TiVo-as-the-"One Box", it's probably something which can only be dealt with in hardware, which is why I brought it up in this thread. Creating another generation of boxes which are physically incapable of outputting a 1080p24 stream as i30 or p60 would be ridiculous.
My AVR and my displays are all pretty much capable of converting 1080p/24 to 60fps. The thing that The TiVo Faithful are always missing is the big picture.

The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.

People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.

Mom and pop are way, way more concerned about things like being able to watch their TiVo in another room of their house (without needing a separate transcoder device), side-load content to their iPad for their family road trip (without a separate transcoder device), etc, and probably don't give a crap about whether their TiVo box is outputting native display formats when their TV probably just deinterlaces or does 3:2 pulldown, etc, on whatever the TiVo sends.

Catering to "the fringe" is a great way of going out of business. This is exactly why Nest has completely blown off the whiners who keep asking for SDKs so that they can put wallpaper of their dogs on their electronic thermostats.

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Old 05-24-2012, 10:27 AM   #42
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My AVR and my displays are all pretty much capable of converting 1080p/24 to 60fps. The thing that The TiVo Faithful are always missing is the big picture.

The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.

People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there.

Catering to "the fringe" is a great way of going out of business. This is exactly why Nest has completely blown off the whiners who keep asking for SDKs so that they can put wallpaper of their dogs on their electronic thermostats.

Mine are too as well as my external scaler. But I do have an issue with the DD+ on Netflix from the TiVos when it resyncs when going from 720P to 1080P24 or when FF or REW a streaming title. Having the TiVo output 1080P60 would avoid this issue(My Roku2 doesn't have a problem) or having an option to only stream at 1080P24 would work as well. Although I would prefer it to only output 1080P24. Since I have no bandwidth issues and once it starts playing the 1080P24 stream, it stays with that during the entire title without having to drop down to a lower reosolution stream.

Ultimately, the new Broadcom chip does have 1080P60 output capability. So if an S5 uses that chip, like it should be, the S5 TiVo will have 1080P60 output capability.
This would directly cater to the average TiVo user. Since your average user has no desire to see a blank screen for a second or two every time HDMI needs to resync with a resolution change. With 1080P60 output this issue is avoided and makes the experience much better for your average user.

So from that perspective, 1080P60 output is not catering to a Fringe user but to the mass market user. Which makes 1080P60 output even more of a priority.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:28 AM   #43
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Mine are too as well as my external scaler. But I do have an issue with the DD+ on Netflix from the TiVos when it resyncs when going from 720P to 1080P24 or when FF or REW a streaming title. Having the TiVo output 1080P60 would avoid this issue or having an option to only stream at 1080P24 would work as well. Although I would prefer it to only output 1080P24. Since I have no bandwidth issues and once it starts playing the 1080P24 stream, it stays with that during the entire title without having to drop down to a lower reosolution stream.
I am not opposed to TiVo doing anything you guys are asking for, I'm simply pointing out that they have much bigger fish to fry and that this stuff is probably not a priority for them.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:52 AM   #44
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The big picture is that if TiVo does not get a highly compelling all-room solution that supports lots and lots (and lots) of streamed content, they are screwed, at least in the retail market.

People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.

Mom and pop are way, way more concerned about things like being able to watch their TiVo in another room of their house (without needing a separate transcoder device), side-load content to their iPad for their family road trip (without a separate transcoder device), etc, and probably don't give a crap about whether their TiVo box is outputting native display formats when their TV probably just deinterlaces or does 3:2 pulldown, etc, on whatever the TiVo sends.

Catering to "the fringe" is a great way of going out of business. This is exactly why Nest has completely blown off the whiners who keep asking for SDKs so that they can put wallpaper of their dogs on their electronic thermostats.
Wow. Very well said!

I think the current team at TiVo understands this hence the reason they make quite a few people on TCF unhappy. Whatever TiVo deploys needs to be rock-solid, very easy to use with mass appeal. They should look to the fringe for possible ideas that could lead to innovation that appeals to the mass market.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:37 AM   #45
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If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...

What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter?

More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #46
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If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...

What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter?

More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...
You can get six tuners with a series 4? A series 4 can only handle 8 or 9 concurrent streams. Putting six tuners in an S4 would not be a good idea when you might need more streams when recording six things, watching on the main box and sending content to several IP STBs.

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Old 08-14-2012, 12:59 PM   #47
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If this thread is a "wish list" for the Series 5...

What about the feasibility of integrating a Tuning Adapter?

More tuners would be nice, but I can get that with a series 4... An integrated tuning adapter may convince me to open my wallet...
NO NO NO NO NO.
  1. I don't want the kludge that is the TA integrated into the TiVo.
  2. A TA is not the only way to handle SDV. IP back-channel anyone?
  3. I doubt if there is any standard.
  4. Not every cable system uses SDV.

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Old 08-14-2012, 02:10 PM   #48
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That's not possible anyway. The whole reason we have TAs is because different cable systems use different technologies for SDV. TiVo tried to convince them to use a standard IP based solution, but settled for TAs instead. Now we're stuck with them until something replaces CableCARDs. (come on AllVid!)

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Old 08-14-2012, 09:23 PM   #49
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People worrying about things like output resolutions, 6 (or 8) tuner boxes, hot swappable hard drives, synchronized scheduling between scads of TiVo units they have, etc ad naseum are basically TiVos hard core fringe users and probably less than 1% of the users out there. No matter how faithful, loyal and evangelical these users are, they are not enough to sustain TiVo as a business. TiVo needs highly compelling, easy to deploy products that cater to mom and pop.
I don't consider hot-swappable hard drives or 6 tuners fringe items; maybe a year ago but not now. Verizon's 6 tuners whole home solution is debuting this winter so TiVo will need to have something comparable out soon after. Also, hot-swappable drives could save TiVo tech support and customers a lot of grief since 90% of TiVo hardware failures are related to the hard disk.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:24 PM   #50
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I don't want the kludge that is the TA integrated into the TiVo.
Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:05 PM   #51
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Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.
There are standards for CableCARDS. There are none for TA's, just some basic FCC requirements about minimum supported simultaneous channels.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:16 PM   #52
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I don't consider hot-swappable hard drives or 6 tuners fringe items; maybe a year ago but not now. Verizon's 6 tuners whole home solution is debuting this winter so TiVo will need to have something comparable out soon after. Also, hot-swappable drives could save TiVo tech support and customers a lot of grief since 90% of TiVo hardware failures are related to the hard disk.
TiVo will never offer a consumer model with hot swapable drives. It wouldn't save any grief. Right now they send out a new unit and the failed unit is returned an refurbed. The typical customer service rep is lucky if they can accurately diagnose whether the problem is hardware or software. They're not going to start attempting to diagnose hard drive failures.

Pace has already announced that they'll offer a 6 tuner TiVo unit for MSOs. I doubt that TiVo will build their own just to offer it in the retail market.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:10 PM   #53
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Pace has already announced that they'll offer a 6 tuner TiVo unit for MSOs. I doubt that TiVo will build their own just to offer it in the retail market.
Where has this been announced? The Pace one that is.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:51 PM   #54
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Where has this been announced? The Pace one that is.
Here is the Engadget page

TiVo shows off Pace-built XG1 six-tuner gateway DVR


And here is the press release from the TiVo site

TiVo and Pace Announce First Pace Product With TiVo Software Integration
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #55
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After all that has been said in this thread, I still think adding 1000baseT and software to gang multiple series 4 boxes together is the most cost effective low volume bang per buck enhancement they can do.

The boxes steam well together now. I like to record a series and then watch a season's worth of shows in a few days.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:58 AM   #56
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For me, I typically will only watch a bunch of episodes in a row when the shows are available from a streaming site or BD. Then I don't have to worry about FF through commercials. I had recorded the final season of chuck and it still sits on one of my Elites. At this point I'm just going to watch the BD when it's released instead of watching what I recorded from the local station.

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Old 08-18-2012, 02:02 PM   #57
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For me, I typically will only watch a bunch of episodes in a row when the shows are available from a streaming site or BD. Then I don't have to worry about FF through commercials. I had recorded the final season of chuck and it still sits on one of my Elites. At this point I'm just going to watch the BD when it's released instead of watching what I recorded from the local station.

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BD? Are you referring to Blueray Disk? If so, do you rent or buy them?
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:39 PM   #58
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Umm, isn't the major reason it's unreliable due to it being separate equipment? Yeah, people have problems with cable cards too, but not as much.
No, it is unreliable because it is a bad design, mandated by committee. There were several possible solutions, and they chose the worst for purely specious reasons. Starting off with a bad design philosophy, they then saddled the platform with a number of "features" CableLabs should never have been allowed to implement, and rushed it to market.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #59
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There are standards for CableCARDS. There are none for TA's, just some basic FCC requirements about minimum supported simultaneous channels.
Even those were implemented well after the fact, and it mostly affects CableCards, not so much the TA.

Face it, folks, unless there is some fairly serious regulation reform or some serious shakeup at CableLabs, no DVR of any sort will ever have a built-in TA.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:43 PM   #60
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Even those were implemented well after the fact, and it mostly affects CableCards, not so much the TA.

Face it, folks, unless there is some fairly serious regulation reform or some serious shakeup at CableLabs, no DVR of any sort will ever have a built-in TA.
While the FCC decided not to mandate a method for implementing SDV, they did in fact adopt some minimal requirements regarding TA's (while not specifically referring to them as such), FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4):

Quote:
(4) Effective August 1, 2011, provide, through the use of a commonly used interface and published specifications for communication, CableCARD-reliant, firmware-upgradable navigation devices the ability to tune simultaneously as many switched-digital channels as the greatest number of streams supported by any set-top box provided by the cable operator, or four simultaneous channels, whichever is greater;

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