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Old 05-21-2012, 05:06 PM   #1
ghuido
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Future TIVO (Series 5?) - 2013

Zatz - What are you doing???? I remember the feeding frenzy 2 years ago with all the speculation for the TIVO Premiere.

i guess it is time for the feeding frenzy to start up again.

2013 TIVO HArdware thoughts .... anyone .... Now taking bets.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-05/...shadowed-2013/
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghuido View Post
Zatz - What are you doing???? I remember the feeding frenzy 2 years ago with all the speculation for the TIVO Premiere.

i guess it is time for the feeding frenzy to start up again.

2013 TIVO HArdware thoughts .... anyone .... Now taking bets.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-05/...shadowed-2013/
I started this thread thinking that maybe they would announce a Series 5 at CES 2012 --> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=470885

It appears I was about a year early...
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:17 PM   #3
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Sounds like it will be a minor refresh to include the transcoding hardware inside the box. We're also likely to see a minor increase in chip speed that'll improve the HD UI performance and maybe a built in BT receiver for the slide remote. Everything else TiVo needs to do is software related.

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Old 05-21-2012, 06:26 PM   #4
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Don't forget about two more tuners.
If they come out with an S5 with 3TB of storage and six tuners, I will probably be selling my Elites(and TiVo stream box) and using the six tuner box with two IP STBs.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:21 PM   #5
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The problem is that 2013 is quite a ways off and they don't say when in 2013. They could be aiming for September 2013 and who knows what could have changed by then. With the rebranding of the XL4 and the refresh on the Premiere even though I don't believe the hardware changed, I wouldn't expect it until maybe second quarter 2013.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:25 PM   #6
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Dear lord, what would you do with all the free counter space if you one day made it down to only one DVR in your house?

Me personally, I just want more multihertzses, the 4G's, and some gigarams.

Honestly I don't know what else they can add except maybe the transcoding. Just make a platform powerful enough to support the software appropriately from Day 1. The Premiere era has had too much negativity the last 2 years.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:16 AM   #7
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How about this (above what was mentioned):

1: Built in MoCA/HPNA
2: Direct IPTV, as in the IPTV component that Verizon FIOS uses, and that AT&T Uverse uses.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:18 AM   #8
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Seeing how TiVo is suing Verizon, I don't see that happening unless they come to an agreement soon.

Although I would love for it to happen since FiOS uses IP to deliver their VOD. And I would certainly like to have access to FiOS VOD on my TiVos. But they aren't even offering FiOS VOD on the Xbox 360.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
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Don't forget about two more tuners.
If they come out with an S5 with 3TB of storage and six tuners, I will probably be selling my Elites(and TiVo stream box) and using the six tuner box with two IP STBs.
I would be in shock if AaronWT went down to 1 TIVO Box ...
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #10
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Everything else TiVo needs to do is software related.
Hasn't that been the case ever since the Premiere came out, if not before? It was obvious that the hardware was way ahead of the software 2 years ago, and given Tivo's slow rollout pace I don't see much changing here with a new box.

They have gotten better recently I'll admit, but then I read that the IP STB will need a static tuner assigned from an XL4/Elite so I slapped my head and went WTF all over again. They really need some better devs, or stop offshoring stuff (if they are).
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:05 PM   #11
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I would be in shock if AaronWT went down to 1 TIVO Box ...

, I'll always have at least two. I have one box on OTA only that I take with me to my GFs house for shows that I've recorded from my other boxes on FiOS.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:07 PM   #12
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, I'll always have at least two. I have one box on OTA only that I take with me to my GFs house for shows that I've recorded from my other boxes on FiOS.
Now there is Man with a plan ...
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:44 PM   #13
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Besides 6 tuners, I'd like to see 6GB storage support in the form of 2 hotswappable hard drives. This would make it very easy over the current methods for folks like me that want to archive their recordings.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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Well, this is just silly. The absolute best way Tivo could ensure I don't buy a new box is:

1. 6 or more tuners
2. MoCA support
3. 3T hard drive
4. Hot swappable hard drives

All of those things cost money, and are of very limited utility for most people. They are of absolutely no utility for me.

1. Two tuners is plenty more than 90% of the time, especially for anyone who has multiple TiVos. It will cost TiVo and the consumer a lot less if they develop cooperative scheduling.

2. Yawn. MoCA is far too slow, limited, and expensive. Gigabit Ethernet is a much better target, and it's less expensive to deploy.

3. The TiVo's FIFO storage becomes effectively infinite somewhere around 1T or less for most users. 3T is an unnecesssary expense. I only have one TiVo with more than 1.2T of storage, and at some point in the near future, I am probably going to downgrade it to 1.2T. One of my Tivos only has 750G. I have no plans to ever upgrade it.

4. Hot swappable hard drives would be nothing but a major pain. A NAS is a far, far better solution.

The only thing that would interest me is stable, effective Gig-E support (which is quite reasonable) and the elimination of the chain of trust (which is never going to happen). That's OK, though. I have my Series III machines, and they do everything I need. Anything else, I implement on one of my servers.

The internal BT support is of limited interest, but since it costs almost nothing to implement, I won't argue against it.

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Old 05-22-2012, 02:51 PM   #15
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I guess I don't have any issue with TiVo developing a "whole Home Solution" but honestly I hope they also stay with and update a basic 2 tuner solution that still supports OTA.

I actually like having multiple DVRs (all of mine are connect to the same TV); Redundancy is a great thing .

I would be interested in a "Series 5" that improved on the Premiere's OTA reception, general performance, and provided the functionality of the up coming "Stream" device.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #16
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LOL. Yes it is getting a little silly.

I think it's safe to say MoCA will be standard from now on, up and down the line from the XL6 to the standard model. It's mandatory for whole-home solutions. It's built right onto many of Broadcom's chips anyway.

My debate question for the class is... should they dump analog as a standard feature going forward? Considering the cost it adds, I would say yes, and just keep some Premieres in stock for those who still need it.

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Old 05-22-2012, 03:52 PM   #17
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Well, this is just silly. The absolute best way Tivo could ensure I don't buy a new box is:

1. 6 or more tuners
2. MoCA support
3. 3T hard drive
4. Hot swappable hard drives

All of those things cost money, and are of very limited utility for most people. They are of absolutely no utility for me.

1. Two tuners is plenty more than 90% of the time, especially for anyone who has multiple TiVos. It will cost TiVo and the consumer a lot less if they develop cooperative scheduling.

2. Yawn. MoCA is far too slow, limited, and expensive. Gigabit Ethernet is a much better target, and it's less expensive to deploy.

3. The TiVo's FIFO storage becomes effectively infinite somewhere around 1T or less for most users. 3T is an unnecesssary expense. I only have one TiVo with more than 1.2T of storage, and at some point in the near future, I am probably going to downgrade it to 1.2T. One of my Tivos only has 750G. I have no plans to ever upgrade it.

4. Hot swappable hard drives would be nothing but a major pain. A NAS is a far, far better solution.

The only thing that would interest me is stable, effective Gig-E support (which is quite reasonable) and the elimination of the chain of trust (which is never going to happen). That's OK, though. I have my Series III machines, and they do everything I need. Anything else, I implement on one of my servers.

The internal BT support is of limited interest, but since it costs almost nothing to implement, I won't argue against it.
Good analysis as I think TiVo now is at the 95% level for the average retail customer that does not use this TiVo community Form. I think TiVo is where VHS recorders were in the late 90s. A series 5 would make sense only if TiVo could bring down the hardware cost and provide faster chips so that the total menu system is HD only, and stop supporting the SDUI. As my TiVo menu use to watch time is so small I don't care what the menu system is (I now use only the SDUI) as long as it is very responsive. The rest of the bells and whistles will appeal to some people but not the great majority of people (not on this form).
As said above 2 tuners is enough for most people (I have four TPs in four different rooms so I have 8 tuners available if my family needs them). Also 300 Hr of HD storage is twice what I would every need but going from 1Tb to 2Tb at the time i did it was only about $15, and again with 4 TPs that over 1200 total hours of HD storage, way more than my family needs. As of now I don't think I would upgrade to a Series 5 in the next few years if a Series 5 did came out in that time frame.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #18
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My Wish List

1.) Keep the 4 Tuners. Unless More are required to support "Whole-Home Solution" Streaming. E.g. You have 6 Tuners but the n2 are used to stream Live TV to a TIVO Extender.
2.) Keep 2 TB Drive. Have never ever run into a RUN OUT OF SPACE scenario with his amount. Adopting of MPEG4 might even make this an even more mute point since same quality less hard drive space is used. I might consider a scenario where there are two Hard Drives. (One to STore the OS and One to store the Recordings). Maybe even on-board storage. This way if the hard drive dies your entire TIVO does not crap out just swap the drive.
3.) Built in Wirelss N/AC + bluetooth + MOCA
4.) Faster BroadCom Chip or More Cores.
5.) Future Compatibility for AllVid Solution. Any future TIVO must be compatible with the future path (IPTV, etc ... )
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:26 PM   #19
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In my opinion, a tiny niche market exists for a DVR with 6 tuners, 3TB, MoCA and other additional cost features. The problem for TiVo is already cost and making the box more expensive won't help but still as an option for the tiny market willing to pay the price, that sounds like a good idea. TiVo must replace the Premiere with a comparable DVR adding more and better streaming access, I see that as more important than an ultra DVR for the niche market.

Ceton and maybe one or two other companies should be able to beat TiVo to market with an ultra DVR, running Windows Media Center, and it will be interesting to see if there is any market willing to pay the necessary price for such a box.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:30 PM   #20
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The good thing with TiVo is they can develop it for the cable comapanies since that will be the primary purchaser of the device. And then just market it in the retail environment on the side. Since they are less reliant on the retail market now like other devices might be.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #21
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A 6-tuner box is a niche for individual box usage, but not as a whole-home solution. The primary purpose of these kinds of boxes is to do all the heavy-lifting for inexpensive IP STB boxes placed around the rest of the house. By and large this scenario reduces long term costs. This is where cable is going, so it'll be where Tivo goes.

But sure, if someone doesn't want to go all-in with Tivo hardware or they don't have more than one or two TVs, then don't get an XL6 model. There would be no point in that case.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:09 PM   #22
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1. Two tuners is plenty more than 90% of the time, especially for anyone who has multiple TiVos. It will cost TiVo and the consumer a lot less if they develop cooperative scheduling.
I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.

When I had 2 working 2 tuner Tivos, that fit most of my needs.. But 6 tuners in one box is very compelling.

(*) Lately, CBS *sometimes* needs padding and sometimes doesn't. NBC always does. But since I don't know beforehand if it needs padding, obviously I have padding added.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:20 PM   #23
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I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays).
I'm not sure I would consider NBC Thursdays a very popular anything. They continue to have record low ratings. All of the shows are aging and past their prime (except Up All Night which doesn't have a big audience anyway).
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:03 PM   #24
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My money would be on the S5 using the Broadcom BCM7435 (Yes, 74*3*5), which is the new, big brother to the BCM7425. Humax has a prototype DVR on display at The Cable Show using this chip. It has *8* QAM tuners (though CableCARD still only supports 6, the other two would have to be Clear QAM or something else), 8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners', another performance boost in the CPU cores, and *four* built in H.264 transcoders. Humax expects their DVR to be available to MSOs in 1Q13.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:22 PM   #25
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It could also use the ability to convert 1080p24 to 1080p60 (or 1080i30, for that matter) for older televisions which can't accept a 24p source (like mine).
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:37 AM   #26
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I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.

When I had 2 working 2 tuner Tivos, that fit most of my needs.. But 6 tuners in one box is very compelling.

(*) Lately, CBS *sometimes* needs padding and sometimes doesn't. NBC always does. But since I don't know beforehand if it needs padding, obviously I have padding added.
I don't need padding on the few NBC shows I record. Like Law and Oder SVU. It starts and stops at the correct time without padding or missing any of the show on my recordings from OTA and FiOS.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:39 AM   #27
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It could also use the ability to convert 1080p24 to 1080p60 (or 1080i30, for that matter) for older televisions which can't accept a 24p source (like mine).
IN 2013 the box had better be able to scale to 1080P60. Otherwise that would just be absurd. I've been inputting 1080P60 into my main HDTV since 2005. In the year 2013 no HD device should be limited to 1080P24 pass through as the max resolution.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:40 AM   #28
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My money would be on the S5 using the Broadcom BCM7435 (Yes, 74*3*5), which is the new, big brother to the BCM7425. Humax has a prototype DVR on display at The Cable Show using this chip. It has *8* QAM tuners (though CableCARD still only supports 6, the other two would have to be Clear QAM or something else), 8 DOCSIS 3.0 'tuners', another performance boost in the CPU cores, and *four* built in H.264 transcoders. Humax expects their DVR to be available to MSOs in 1Q13.
So wouldn't the 8 QAM tuner box just have two cable card slots to handle the eight tuners? And use four tuners on each cable card.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:31 AM   #29
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I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.
There were a couple of times during the past season where I needed 4 tuners even w/o padding. 9PM on both Thursdays and Fridays. This was all broadcast network stuff so no option to pick up a later showing. Needing 3 was even more common.

For me, Fox is the one that usually requires padding at both ends. During football season, CBS Sunday needs a lot. I had my SP for "CSI:Miami" padded by an hour. Luckily, it is the last thing on so no real conflicts. Did sometimes miss a second or so of "The Good Wife". Other sporting events have been known to cause similar problems on the other networks.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #30
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I completely disagree, since the way Tivos work now, BOTH TUNERS are taken up if you simply record VERY POPULAR programming and actually want to see all of it! (e.g. CBS Mondays, and NBC Thursdays). You HAVE to add a minute of end padding to all of the shows(*) to actually see the entire show.
Add to that sports games that happen during prime time and quite often I do need 5 tuners. And I'm already careful to dedicate specific DVRs to specific network channels which helps reduce conflicts - NBC & CBS on 1 Premiere, ABC & FOX on another, and then using S3 OLED when 4 tuners can't cover things.
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