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Old 05-24-2012, 11:11 PM   #1
martinp13
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Awake "Turtles All The Way Down" S1E13 5/24/2012

At least they ended it right.... he closed his eyes and we don't know what happened. I won't begin to understand Vega in the penguin costume or the two Michaels at prisoner visitation.

I'm very sad to see this series end. I wonder how much they changed this last episode to make it the series finale instead of the season finale?
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:22 PM   #2
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Seems to me that the only viable answer is that World-Son was real, World-Wife was fake, but when it came time to face that, Britton instead had the real break his Doctor was predicting and created a fantasy world in which both were still alive.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:14 AM   #3
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Horrible episode. Was semi-annoyed they cancelled this show but after watching this finale I am glad they did.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by martinp13 View Post
I wonder how much they changed this last episode to make it the series finale instead of the season finale?
I have a hunch that it's like Fringe, except instead of leaving in the little bit at the end that sets up the next season, they took it off...

I found it...interesting that as he get closer to solving the big case, the clear distinctions between the two worlds started breaking down. And yet just as over the course of the season he has gotten information from each world that proved useful in the other and yet which he could not have gotten in the other, here he got information in the merging worlds that he couldn't have gotten in either (the bit about the heel). So there's no way any of the realities could be the sole real reality.

A man wonders if they ever had an answer, or if they were just making it up as they went along. A man also wonders what their plan was for next year.

Why is a man talking like Jaqen H'ghar?
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:49 AM   #5
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I thought they gave the audience what we always ask for which is an ending. I agree the last scene was "Fringe like" in that it was added to be a series finale. And ironically that made the entire premise worthless because I thought the message was it was all a dream. Yuck.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:00 AM   #6
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I thought they gave the audience what we always ask for which is an ending. I agree the last scene was "Fringe like" in that it was added to be a series finale.
My theory isn't that it was added to make a series finalé, but that another later scene was deleted to make a series finalé.

That is, there was another scene that would have set up Season Two, but they cut it out. Which seems to be exactly what they did on Fringe...wrap up the series, and then have another scene that opens it up again. If Fringe had not been renewed, all they had to do was lop off the last bit and voila, instant series finalé.

The last scene we saw was too tied into the rest of the episode, where the two realities were collapsing in on each other. It doesn't read at all like something that was just tacked on to end the series.

And it clearly wasn't all a dream, since he got information in the dream state (whatever the dream state is) that helped him in reality (whatever reality is).
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #7
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As usual, Alan Sepinwall to the rescue with his interview with the creator:
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...or-kyle-killen

However I am disappointed in reading it, I sort of do like the final scene with both families and you left going "huh?"
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
As usual, Alan Sepinwall to the rescue with his interview with the creator:
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...or-kyle-killen

However I am disappointed in reading it, I sort of do like the final scene with both families and you left going "huh?"

I thought it was a great episode (except for the penguin costume). We got closure. They wrapped it all up nice and neat.

Still not entirely sure what's real, what's fantasy. But given that the series was cancelled, they did a decent job of ending it. I appreciate that.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:20 AM   #9
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As it wound down, many main characters were killed, but only one of each. Bird dead in red world but still alive in green, Hawkins killed in green but still alive in red, etc. I wondered if the worlds would merge when only one of each was left in his life. At the end, it was just Trish that had a counterpart in each world, and he almost killed her when she visited him in the cell. Maybe in the non-cancelled series he did kill her, and that would set up the merge cliffhanger for season 2.

I didn't get the penguin costume either... other than a nod to the earlier episode.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:35 AM   #10
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I thought it was a great episode (except for the penguin costume). We got closure. They wrapped it all up nice and neat.

Still not entirely sure what's real, what's fantasy. But given that the series was cancelled, they did a decent job of ending it. I appreciate that.
I feel the exact opposite. It was anything but nice and neat. Instead of a logical, sensible answer, it just left me with questions.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:37 AM   #11
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And wiki "turtles all the way down"... I had never heard that expression before and the explanation is quite interesting (and lengthy!).
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by martinp13 View Post
As it wound down, many main characters were killed, but only one of each. Bird dead in red world but still alive in green, Hawkins killed in green but still alive in red, etc. I wondered if the worlds would merge when only one of each was left in his life. At the end, it was just Trish that had a counterpart in each world, and he almost killed her when she visited him in the cell. Maybe in the non-cancelled series he did kill her, and that would set up the merge cliffhanger for season 2.

I didn't get the penguin costume either... other than a nod to the earlier episode.
I also noticed how one of each character was being killed off. I even thought one Britten would die.

If I had been writing this show, I would have ended it by having red Britten die and only green Britten be left to raise Rex.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #13
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And wiki "turtles all the way down"... I had never heard that expression before and the explanation is quite interesting (and lengthy!).
The finale struck me as surreal. I wasn't sure if I liked it or not even after it ended. But I was struck by what the therapist said near the end of the finale, "Turtles all the way down." (which also happens to be the episode title).

So I looked it up. Turns out it is something Stephen Hawking said, referring to an infinite regression (specifically of universes). And taken from an Amerind myth (the Lenape or Delaware Indians) that the flat Earth was was carried on the back of a giant turtle. And what is that turtle on? another turtle, turtles all the way down.

So the show opened itself up to an infinite number of possible worlds, with each world as real as the other. Or would if it had been renewed. So I decided there was unsuspected depth to the series and that I loved the episode. Boy, I wish the series was renewed.

I am still wondering about the penguin outfit, but I am now a bit more confident that there is meaning behind using it.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
As usual, Alan Sepinwall to the rescue with his interview with the creator:
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...or-kyle-killen

However I am disappointed in reading it, I sort of do like the final scene with both families and you left going "huh?"
From that article:
Quote:
I feel like the point wasn't necessarily just about who killed Laura Palmer, it was about a man who wanted to live in both these worlds and what the consequences were of trying to spread yourself between two existences.
That's what I took away from the series so I think he was successful there.

However, I'm of the opinion that the red and the green worlds are both fantasy and there's something else going on.

Oh well.
It was an interesting ride.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:17 PM   #15
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However, I'm of the opinion that the red and the green worlds are both fantasy and there's something else going on.
I agree with this. But we'll never know now...
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:09 PM   #16
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I choose to think the world with both Hannah and Rex is a third reality.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:50 PM   #17
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I choose to think the world with both Hannah and Rex is a third reality.
My first thought was that they were all dead...
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #18
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I choose to think the world with both Hannah and Rex is a third reality.
That thought crossed my mind as well.
But if that's what it was, why have the dual fantasy worlds in the first place?

Was it to help him solve the Westfield case?

Oh, I should compliment Wilmer Valderrama in the scenes where he was trying to decide what do.
I though his conflict came across very well.

And you have to give him points for appearing in the penguin costume.


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Old 05-25-2012, 05:19 PM   #19
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A man wonders if they ever had an answer, or if they were just making it up as they went along. A man also wonders what their plan was for next year.
LOL For a minute I thought I was in the wrong thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt@thehickmans View Post

So I looked it up. Turns out it is something Stephen Hawking said, referring to an infinite regression (specifically of universes). And taken from an Amerind myth (the Lenape or Delaware Indians) that the flat Earth was was carried on the back of a giant turtle. And what is that turtle on? another turtle, turtles all the way down.
That's cool. Thanks. I thought she was just saying that it was very slow going--slow as a turtle. This is much better.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:14 PM   #20
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Or maybe he's still in a coma from the accident, and none of it is real.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #21
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I thought they gave the audience what we always ask for which is an ending. I agree the last scene was "Fringe like" in that it was added to be a series finale. And ironically that made the entire premise worthless because I thought the message was it was all a dream. Yuck.
Here's an interview where the creator says the whole thing was not a dream. It also said the ending was per design.

http://www.tv.com/news/awake-q-and-a...nd-more-28770/
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #22
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Here's an interview where the creator says the whole thing was not a dream. It also said the ending was per design.

http://www.tv.com/news/awake-q-and-a...nd-more-28770/
He says in the article that the season ended exactly as they had planned. If that's the case then I agree... it is clear this was not a dream. But if a series finale was intentionally written this way then that was my interpretation.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:11 PM   #23
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Interesting finale. A few thoughts, Vega in the Penguin suit: A Penguin is a bird, his partner in the red universe was nicknamed Bird...Bird = Bird?

Perhaps he is still trapped in the car and both universes are a dream/possible outcome of the accident.

THE entire season was him putting the pieces together for himself as to the cause of teh accident.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:54 PM   #24
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Just finished the episode with the wife. I haven't read any interviews yet so here's my theory. He was in a coma the whole time, then at the end was him dying (seeing weird stuff), sees his family(heaven?), then dies(closes his eyes). That closed the story up for me.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:33 AM   #25
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I always figured his entire family is dead but now he's simply created a third dream world where both survived.
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:22 PM   #26
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The interviews linked to in this thread were highly enlightening. Too bad we'll not get the chance to see some of those ideas play out. Still a satisfying, albeit far too brief, ride.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:43 AM   #27
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Really enjoyed is series. Also enjoyed Sepinwall's interview with Killen. He put a lot of thought into the show, and I like that he didn't spell it out for us, but instead left it for the viewer to interpret. I think he was close to making a breakthrough that would have resulted in him having to accept the death of his wife, so he sunk deeper into the psychosis and created a word where there was no loss at all. Would have been interesting to see where they went with that.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:14 AM   #28
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This was a great series, every ep was well written, well acted. But, I did not enjoy the final ep. It was rushed and made no sense to me. I feel like the writers did a Bobby Ewing and decided "ok, ah we really can't explain him going back and forth between red world blue world so lets just say everything was a dream. Oh I know, and then lets have him have a dream in a dream. Yeah thats good....."
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:16 AM   #29
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This was a great series, every ep was well written, well acted. But, I did not enjoy the final ep. It was rushed and made no sense to me. I feel like the writers did a Bobby Ewing and decided "ok, ah we really can't explain him going back and forth between red world blue world so lets just say everything was a dream. Oh I know, and then lets have him have a dream in a dream. Yeah thats good....."
Read the interviews with the creator for a much different take. He makes some very clear statements about the idea that this could in any way have been a dream. After reading the interviews I am even more disappointed about Awake's cancellation. It was on the brink of moving from highly entertaining to greatness.
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