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Old 05-30-2012, 02:36 PM   #151
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Puppeteer -horrible

Howard does his fake vote again, where he pretends to change his mind. We get it. Enough already.

Drummer woman - horrible

Woman breaking cans - horrible

Up to first break already. All horrible.


Little Michael Jackson kid - He is cute.


Another break already. Thank God for TiVo!


Escape artist - obviously it is setup to snap shut when he releases his feet. Nothing really new here to me.


Irish dancers - the 5 year old was cute, but we've see it before.


Hip hop violin - yawn.


Nerd guitarist - ehh. He could sing I guess. Nothing special


Break. Like they brought back the snapple chat.


Little Ozzy - lol. So stupid.


Omg, another break after that 1 act.


They are skipping all the acts going to Vegas, just showing a 2 second clip of each of them.


Glass walker - Candy pants! Lol. Ewww. Eyelids. I can't watch.


Voice over guy - he is stupid. You gotta have things to say, you can't just pretend you are a movie guy. But he is silly.


Another break. How can anyone watch this show live??


Rick James - wtf? Waste of time. But lmao at the backup dancing. The sexual chocolates.
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:33 PM   #152
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It looks like he reaches up to where his feet are, presumably to release his feet from the device. At first, I thought he was stalling for time until the trap sprung, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is really pulling some lever that causes the trap to spring.
It looked like his hands went to a special part of the bar. I am guessing that he squeezed something somehow ... kind of like your level pulling indicated.
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #153
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The release is probably operated off-stage, likely by the same person who operates the release for the rope.

You can see that he actually had a bit of a malfunction, which is probably why they did the choppy edits there. The rope got released first (it's already in two pieces, held together by some mechanism). You can see in one quick cut the rope just drops and goes limp without the cage "wings" falling. Then it cuts to him hitting the mat and another cut to the cage closing. Whoever was operating the mechanism for the rope release hit it early, before the release for cage was activated.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:09 PM   #154
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The release is probably operated off-stage, likely by the same person who operates the release for the rope.

You can see that he actually had a bit of a malfunction, which is probably why they did the choppy edits there. The rope got released first (it's already in two pieces, held together by some mechanism). You can see in one quick cut the rope just drops and goes limp without the cage "wings" falling. Then it cuts to him hitting the mat and another cut to the cage closing. Whoever was operating the mechanism for the rope release hit it early, before the release for cage was activated.
I'm really don't think so.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that they'd design the mechanism in such a way that separate controls break the rope and "spring" the trap. That would be insane. Surely the same action (whether it's something he triggers himself or something someone off-stage triggers) both cause the rope to break and the trap to spring. The simplest way would be for the trap closing, itself, to snap the rope at a deliberately designed weak point. (What was with all the "marshmallow" looking things along the rope anyway? My guess: They were hiding thread-thin "links" where the rope was designed to break when the trap was sprung.)

I'm fully in agreement with everyone here (in fact, I was the first to bring it up) that the rope is absolutely not what's holding the trap open. But it would be mechanically simpler to design the "trick trap" such that one simple motion both closes the trap and breaks the rope.

Not only would it be more complicated to have separate controls that break the rope and close the trap, it would open the door to screw-ups where they're not triggered simultaneously.

If you really did see the rope "break early" perhaps it really did burn through, due to his taking way to long to escape from the straight jacket!
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:17 PM   #155
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Little Michael Jackson kid - He is cute.
But not particularly talented, even for age 6. "Cute" isn't a winning act. Better to have cut him loose now (like they did with the kid who rapped about "commas and zeros" a couple of shows back who didn't even really have "cute" going for him) rather than give him false hope and prolong the agony.

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They are skipping all the acts going to Vegas, just showing a 2 second clip of each of them.
This suggests to me that the ones we saw two second of each were even lamer than the rather lame acts they showed us all of.

It seems they're sending a lot of lameo-crap acts through to Vegas. In fact, this may be, overall, the weakest season of AGT ever.

Maybe they really need Piers as the ruthless voice of reason as to what has the potential to win and carry an actual Vegas show vs. what may be amusing for one 90 second blip.

Sad. Piers is sucking profusely as Larry King's replacement. It seems they needed him here...
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:19 PM   #156
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Notice how the rope was slack the whole time? It was obvious that it wasn't under tension, and wasn't what was holding the trap open.

The burning rope had nothing to do with the trap closing.

It looks to me like the actual mechanism that released the trap was his weight coming off the trap. So, the instant he frees himself and jumps down, the trap closes. So, no matter how long it takes him to free himself, the trap closes the instant he jumps down.

The rope has a deliberate "weak spot" under one of those marshmallow looking things that were along it, and it's actually the trap closing that breaks the rope, rather than the rope breaking that closes the trap. The rope was probably soaked in alcohol or lamp oil or similar flammable liquid, so the flammable liquid was being consumed, and the rope itself wasn't really burning that much. This way, the rope stays intact until the trap closing actually breaks it.

That's my assessment, anyway. He really did escape from the straight jacket, but he wasn't in any danger of being "chomped" if he didn't escape in a certain amount of time.
totally agree with your assesment. His feet/weight releasing, trigger the rope and trap.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #157
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I'm really don't think so.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that they'd design the mechanism in such a way that separate controls break the rope and "spring" the trap. That would be insane. Surely the same action (whether it's something he triggers himself or something someone off-stage triggers) both cause the rope to break and the trap to spring. The simplest way would be for the trap closing, itself, to snap the rope at a deliberately designed weak point. (What was with all the "marshmallow" looking things along the rope anyway? My guess: They were hiding thread-thin "links" where the rope was designed to break when the trap was sprung.)

I'm fully in agreement with everyone here (in fact, I was the first to bring it up) that the rope is absolutely not what's holding the trap open. But it would be mechanically simpler to design the "trick trap" such that one simple motion both closes the trap and breaks the rope.

Not only would it be more complicated to have separate controls that break the rope and close the trap, it would open the door to screw-ups where they're not triggered simultaneously.

If you really did see the rope "break early" perhaps it really did burn through, due to his taking way to long to escape from the straight jacket!
Whether it's a separate trigger for the rope or not is questionable. But either way, there is a mechanism that holds the rope together. If it was a separate trigger, whoever triggers it did so early. If it's not a separate trigger, then the mechanism malfunctioned and released early.

The rope certainly didn't burn through. He probably reuses that rope over and over again.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:27 PM   #158
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totally agree with your assesment. His feet/weight releasing, trigger the rope and trap.
From a safety standpoint, it's certainly not his weight that acts as the release. The whole apparatus was moving around quite a bit, and there's the potential for it to release early if that's the case. It's possible he hits some release as he goes up to free his feet, but again, there's the potential for it to release early while his feet are caught. The safest thing would be for someone else to trigger the release once they are sure he's clear of the cage.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:27 PM   #159
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Notice how the rope was slack the whole time? It was obvious that it wasn't under tension, and wasn't what was holding the trap open.

The burning rope had nothing to do with the trap closing.

It looks to me like the actual mechanism that released the trap was his weight coming off the trap. So, the instant he frees himself and jumps down, the trap closes. So, no matter how long it takes him to free himself, the trap closes the instant he jumps down.

The rope has a deliberate "weak spot" under one of those marshmallow looking things that were along it, and it's actually the trap closing that breaks the rope, rather than the rope breaking that closes the trap. The rope was probably soaked in alcohol or lamp oil or similar flammable liquid, so the flammable liquid was being consumed, and the rope itself wasn't really burning that much. This way, the rope stays intact until the trap closing actually breaks it.

That's my assessment, anyway. He really did escape from the straight jacket, but he wasn't in any danger of being "chomped" if he didn't escape in a certain amount of time.
I'm betting you are 100% accurate. This seems the safest (and, conveniently, the easiest) way to stage this sort of illusion. By making the closing of the trap tied to himself as a counterweight, it will accurately and repeatedly close at exactly the right time, right as he falls out of harm's way.

The only risk that I could see is if the rope somehow burns through before he frees himself. The audience would then be able to tell it's just an illusion, that the rope is just a decoy, because the trap wouldn't close, but he'd be fine.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:30 PM   #160
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From a safety standpoint, it's certainly not his weight that acts as the release. The whole apparatus was moving around quite a bit, and there's the potential for it to release early if that's the case.
If it's simply a counterweight system, where pulling down on the middle part opens the trap, and releasing it closes it, there shouldn't be any way that the trap could close prematurely... the only way it would close is if the counterweight is completely removed from the system (i.e. he falls out to safety).
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #161
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If it's simply a counterweight system, where pulling down on the middle part opens the trap, and releasing it closes it, there shouldn't be any way that the trap could close prematurely... the only way it would close is if the counterweight is completely removed from the system (i.e. he falls out to safety).
Or the rigging drops slightly, or his movement removes enough weight from the system, or someone pushes up on him...

It's simply much safer to have someone else control the release.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:38 PM   #162
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I've seen a few episodes since I listen to Howard and most of the shows I usually watch are done for the season.
There is one time I could not agree with Howard's decision. The dancer from Paterson, NJ that had the crowd roaring and was certainly talented was given a no vote by Howard because "as good as he is, he cannot fill a stadium." But if someone who dances like that can't fill a stadium, then no dancer could fill a stadium.
Besides, it's America's Got Talent, not Americans Who Can Fill A Stadium.
And if filling a stadium is your yardstick, why would Howard give a yes vote to the guy who sang "Watcha Gonna Do?"? As catchy as that song was, I don't think it will fill a stadium.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #163
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This show has two main flaws. The first is that it is not clear what they are looking for. Should the winning act be able to fill arenas? Sell out shows in Vegas 4 nights a week? Or just be an amazing talent?

The second flaw is that once we have seen the auditions we have seen the acts once, so why do we want to see them again?
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:10 PM   #164
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They are skipping all the acts going to Vegas, just showing a 2 second clip of each of them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the episodes during last season two hours long each? With half the time, it's no wonder they're skipping everything.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:50 PM   #165
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This show has two main flaws. The first is that it is not clear what they are looking for. Should the winning act be able to fill arenas? Sell out shows in Vegas 4 nights a week? Or just be an amazing talent?
Well, they have different goals depending on at which stage of the competition they're at. At the audition stage, the judges are almost exclusively interested in weeding out the utter crap from the acts that are remotely interesting.

(Of course, the reality is that the producers have already weeded out the mediocre stuff. The stuff that the judges see is generally going to be really good, or pretty bad. There won't be too many genuine judgement calls from the judges.)

Once they hit Vegas, however, is when the goal changes to acts that are worth $1m dollars *and* which people might be interested in seeing as a headline act on the Vegas strip.

Quote:
The second flaw is that once we have seen the auditions we have seen the acts once, so why do we want to see them again?
The audition isn't the act... it's just a 1 minute sample. At later stages, they do more and different parts of the act.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #166
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From my show (and they did air last night) All That was one of the top acts.
Interesting... a quick check of Wikipedia indicates that a clogging group out of Myrtle Beach, SC named "All That" came in second during season 1. This show allows repeat acts, particularly an act that made it all the way to the finale?

Here's their audition from 2006:
All That - Season 1 Audition

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Old 05-30-2012, 06:14 PM   #167
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Regarding the escape artist, I also think the trap was rigged with a counterbalance system. I don't think I would want my safety in someone else's hands. What if there was a malfunction in the system that the other person is controlling?

And whoever said the rope was a decoy is spot on.
It is dual purpose - it is rigged to give the illusion that that is the only mechanism holding the trap open (and in fact it is, until the weight of the performer is applied and the counter balance system takes over) and once lit on fire it gives the presence of danger.

After going back and watching, it's obvious to me that the trap had to be held open with some sort of counter balance system. As he is thrashing around trying to get out of the straight jacket you can see the rope lose tension, especially when he reaches up for the first time.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:29 PM   #168
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Or the rigging drops slightly, or his movement removes enough weight from the system, or someone pushes up on him...
I'm wondering if you're not understanding what Fish Man and I are suggesting. The jaws are (essentially) being held open by the weight pulling down on the shackles. The only way for the jaws to close completely would be for the weight to be *completely* removed from the shackles. (Put another way, the position of the jaws are inversely related to the position of the shackles in the center.)

It's possible that as he reached up, he released a safety for the spring-loaded trigger. Once he did that, all he'd have to do is release his weight from the shackles, which would cause the jaws to close.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:42 PM   #169
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I told my wife those Cloggers had been on before... It is kinda weird they allow the same acts... Huh.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:44 PM   #170
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I'm wondering if you're not understanding what Fish Man and I are suggesting. The jaws are (essentially) being held open by the weight pulling down on the shackles. The only way for the jaws to close completely would be for the weight to be *completely* removed from the shackles. (Put another way, the position of the jaws are inversely related to the position of the shackles in the center.)

It's possible that as he reached up, he released a safety for the spring-loaded trigger. Once he did that, all he'd have to do is release his weight from the shackles, which would cause the jaws to close.
I get what you're saying. But there's no motion in the foot holds when the cage releases, as there would have to be if it was directly counterbalancing the wings.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:02 PM   #171
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If the trap is held open by his weight counterbalancing it, then what is keeping it open before he gets in it?
I think he does something to release it himself when he reaches up to his feet.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:09 PM   #172
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Big Howard fan here, but I feel embarrassed watching this show....it's pretty horrible.
This season pass is on life support at my place....
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:26 PM   #173
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So, what happened to "All That" in 2006 that got them eliminated? I would imagine that it was just more of the same in Vegas and not different enough to sustain their carrying through to Hollywood, right? If so, I don't see anything different from 6 years ago until today, so they will probably be gone again after Vegas.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:41 PM   #174
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So, what happened to "All That" in 2006 that got them eliminated? I would imagine that it was just more of the same in Vegas and not different enough to sustain their carrying through to Hollywood, right? If so, I don't see anything different from 6 years ago until today, so they will probably be gone again after Vegas.
They lost to the little girl who was a singer. They had a pretty good run if you ask me!

That is crazy that they were allowed to come back again.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:43 PM   #175
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I'm wondering if you're not understanding what Fish Man and I are suggesting. The jaws are (essentially) being held open by the weight pulling down on the shackles. The only way for the jaws to close completely would be for the weight to be *completely* removed from the shackles. (Put another way, the position of the jaws are inversely related to the position of the shackles in the center.)

It's possible that as he reached up, he released a safety for the spring-loaded trigger. Once he did that, all he'd have to do is release his weight from the shackles, which would cause the jaws to close.
Here's my clarification of how I think it works (pretty close to what you say):
  • Upon getting on the thing, either his weight being applied to the bar he was hanging from "arms" the release mechanism, or he stealthily "arms" it as he's climbing on, that is, removes a safety.
  • Then, his weight being removed completely from the bar releases the mechanism and the jaws close.

I agree with nataylor's observation that the bar he was hanging from did not move noticeably. That's why I think it's a "latch" as opposed to a pure counterbalance. It would be easy to design such a latch so that a couple of ounces on the bar would hold it locked and the jaws could not release. That way, no possible amount of moving or wiggling could trip it accidentally.

Furthermore, it would be possible to design such a mechanism that the movement of the bar would be no more than a quarter inch or so, which explains why it didn't move noticeably. You'd never see a quarter inch from the audience or on TV.

Also, having his weight coming off the bar being the means of release makes it look like he escaped "in the nick of time" every time!

I could not possibly disagree more that it's "more safe" to have a person off stage release it. That person could be a doofus. They could sneeze. An evil person could grab the control from them. They could inadvertently "anticipate" his escape and release it too early. All kinds of stuff could go wrong relying on a third party to time the release so precisely!

My way is passive, and essentially fail-safe. It's far far safer to have the thing that releases it be his actually being off the "trap"!
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:06 PM   #176
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So, what happened to "All That" in 2006 that got them eliminated?
They didn't get eliminated. They made it all the way to the final episode, and came in second, which makes all the more baffling that the show lets them come back again.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:36 PM   #177
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They didn't get eliminated. They made it all the way to the final episode, and came in second, which makes all the more baffling that the show lets them come back again.
I wonder if they will reveal that fact on the show? I can't imagine we are the only people who picked up on this... it's very strange. This is like having Clay Aiken on American Idol again.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:09 PM   #178
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it's very strange. This is like having Clay Aiken on American Idol again.
No weirder than having him on the first time.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:41 AM   #179
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Here's my clarification of how I think it works (pretty close to what you say):
  • Upon getting on the thing, either his weight being applied to the bar he was hanging from "arms" the release mechanism, or he stealthily "arms" it as he's climbing on, that is, removes a safety.
  • Then, his weight being removed completely from the bar releases the mechanism and the jaws close.

I agree with nataylor's observation that the bar he was hanging from did not move noticeably. That's why I think it's a "latch" as opposed to a pure counterbalance. It would be easy to design such a latch so that a couple of ounces on the bar would hold it locked and the jaws could not release. That way, no possible amount of moving or wiggling could trip it accidentally.

Furthermore, it would be possible to design such a mechanism that the movement of the bar would be no more than a quarter inch or so, which explains why it didn't move noticeably. You'd never see a quarter inch from the audience or on TV.

Also, having his weight coming off the bar being the means of release makes it look like he escaped "in the nick of time" every time!

I could not possibly disagree more that it's "more safe" to have a person off stage release it. That person could be a doofus. They could sneeze. An evil person could grab the control from them. They could inadvertently "anticipate" his escape and release it too early. All kinds of stuff could go wrong relying on a third party to time the release so precisely!

My way is passive, and essentially fail-safe. It's far far safer to have the thing that releases it be his actually being off the "trap"!
I totally agree with this. I figured during the show that him jumping down somehow releases it. I hadn't thought about the trap closing being what breaks the rope, but that makes a lot of sense.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:58 AM   #180
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiams View Post
If the trap is held open by his weight counterbalancing it, then what is keeping it open before he gets in it?
I think he does something to release it himself when he reaches up to his feet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
[The rope] is rigged to give the illusion that it is the only mechanism holding the trap open (and in fact it is, until the weight of the performer is applied and the counter balance system takes over) and once lit on fire it gives the presence of danger.
Of course I'm only speculating.
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