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Old 06-09-2012, 04:06 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Those backdoors aren't relevant for TiVo HME applications.
As I recall, it used to work for Amazon and Blockbuster (I think), but those were downloads and not streaming, probably played with the same code as playing a television recording. So basically there's no way to determine the format of the source stream, since the player doesn't include that.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:29 PM   #272
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The new Netflix on TiVo does 5.1 audio.
Yes it does, but the 5.1 is in DD+ which you need HDMI 1.3 or higher. My Algolith Flea only has HDMI 1.2 and it does an excellent job of cleaning up broadcast content and streaming content. So I prefer to use it if I can. So
I use it for the stereo content and my Roku2 for the 5.1 content.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:55 PM   #273
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TiVo Premiere can't render Netflix's 5.1 channel DD+ into multichannel LPCM or basic DD? Specs for the Broadcom chip that they use says that it can decode it.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by aaronwt

Yes it does, but the 5.1 is in DD+ which you need HDMI 1.3 or higher. My Algolith Flea only has HDMI 1.2 and it does an excellent job of cleaning up broadcast content and streaming content. So I prefer to use it if I can. So
I use it for the stereo content and my Roku2 for the 5.1 content.
I'm pretty sure the TiVo software can downgrade the DD+ to DD. my receiver sometimes reports the 5.1 as regular DD, though usually its DD+.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:15 PM   #275
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TiVo Premiere can't render Netflix's 5.1 channel DD+ into multichannel LPCM or basic DD? Specs for the Broadcom chip that they use says that it can decode it.
It can decode to DD since that's what it sends out over optical out. I'm not sure how the HDMI handshaking works so I don't know what will be sent out to a receiver that doesn't support DD+.
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:13 AM   #276
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It can decode to DD since that's what it sends out over optical out. I'm not sure how the HDMI handshaking works so I don't know what will be sent out to a receiver that doesn't support DD+.
If it's working properly it will send out a DD+ signal consistently and the receiver will have no audio. My secondary setup does this 100% of the time from the Elite in that room. There is something weird going on with my main setup with the DD+. Sometimes a DD signal comes out and sometimes a DD+ signal comes out which is not supposed to happen since DD+ doesn't have a core DD signal like DTS does it. Other devices I have do not exhibit this behavior. The only other time I ran into this was years ago when I had a DVDO VP50pro scaler. And I would see DD from DD+ sources for some reason. Other devices I have that send out DD+ will always send out DD+ when set that way.

This is another reason I don't use the TiVo for DD+ titles because it should be sending DD+ 100% of the time for those titles but with my Algolith Flea with HDMi 1.2 in the mix it can't send it through. But sometimes it sends DD even though it should be in DD+. Plus even when taking teh Algolith Flea out of the mix and sending straight to my DVDO DUo scaler, when I FF/REW the DD+ would sometimes have issues and dropout. Issues that don't happen when I use my Roku2 for Netflix with DD+ titles.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:05 AM   #277
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"Tried" to watch Drive on Netflix last night. The screen kept flicking between 1080 modes. It became unwatchable. I even disabled 1080p output on the Tivo box. It didn't do anything thing. I have 40 Mbps download speed so that wasn't a problem.

So I switched over to the PS3 and watched it. It was rock solid.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #278
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"Tried" to watch Drive on Netflix last night. The screen kept flicking between 1080 modes. It became unwatchable. I even disabled 1080p output on the Tivo box. It didn't do anything thing. I have 40 Mbps download speed so that wasn't a problem.

So I switched over to the PS3 and watched it. It was rock solid.
You need to have it set for one resolution output. If you still have 720P and 1080i selected it will still switch between resolutions if there are bandwidth issues. For me it's still streaming fine from my Premieres. It hits 1080P and stays there.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:11 PM   #279
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DD+ is designed to be converted to basic DD via a computationally simple process. I'd expect a chip with DD+ decoding to have a function to do it. If TiVo can convert to basic DD for output over S/PDIF then it should be able to do the same for output over HDMI to devices which don't support DD+.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #280
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Since the Netflix upgrade (Premiere XL) the Netflix video quality which was once rock-solid, has degenerated into a sub-vhs picture. Streaming quality on my other Tivo(Series3 HD) running the old software is as good as ever.

I've been through a few calls & troubleshooting w/Tivo, trying many of the fixes recommended in this forum...no change in quality. Since standard troubleshooting
has failed they've escalated my case to level 2 support.
Anyone on this forum have any experience/insight to this problem?
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:35 PM   #281
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TiVo should offer a choice of which Netflix application you want to use since as pointed out the S3 series use the old one still.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #282
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I did pose the question(to Tivo) if I could revert to the old Netflix app & they indicated that t wasn't possible.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:58 PM   #283
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You need to have it set for one resolution output. If you still have 720P and 1080i selected it will still switch between resolutions if there are bandwidth issues. For me it's still streaming fine from my Premieres. It hits 1080P and stays there.
I don't know how you were able to set it to only one resolution? When I went back to the "Video" settings screen and selected only "1080p24", the box went through testing all of the formats again and after the testing, all of them were selected all over again. If I tried to select 1080p24, and then "Continue", it didn't let me keep going.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:39 PM   #284
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I don't know how you were able to set it to only one resolution? When I went back to the "Video" settings screen and selected only "1080p24", the box went through testing all of the formats again and after the testing, all of them were selected all over again. If I tried to select 1080p24, and then "Continue", it didn't let me keep going.
For it to accept 1080p24 as the only resolution it would have to be capable of converting other formats to that (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, etc).
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:29 PM   #285
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I don't know how you were able to set it to only one resolution? When I went back to the "Video" settings screen and selected only "1080p24", the box went through testing all of the formats again and after the testing, all of them were selected all over again. If I tried to select 1080p24, and then "Continue", it didn't let me keep going.
The TiVo cannot scale to 1080P24. You would have to set it for 1080i or 720P when choosing one resolution for HD output. 1080P24 is only pass through so it also needs a lower resolution selected that it can scale content to when selecting 1080P24.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:00 AM   #286
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went to Netflix tonight - couldn't connect error, clicked OK, box rebooted. I thought they FIXED that issue?
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:23 AM   #287
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went to Netflix tonight - couldn't connect error, clicked OK, box rebooted. I thought they FIXED that issue?
I had my first issue with the new Netflix application last night. I selected play on a streaming title and it sat on the loading screen for a while and the title never started playing. I waited about a minute. Usually a title starts playing in a few seconds. I backed out of Netflix and then started the app again. This time the title started playing properly. I then watched two episodes with no issues. No idea what caused the issue.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:55 AM   #288
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You need to have it set for one resolution output. If you still have 720P and 1080i selected it will still switch between resolutions if there are bandwidth issues. For me it's still streaming fine from my Premieres. It hits 1080P and stays there.
Mybe I'm confused here but the only resoultion I had selected is 1080i. It definitely was not a bandwith issue. It was switching from 1080 60 and 1080 24.

Maybe there is a setting on my TV?
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:31 AM   #289
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Mybe I'm confused here but the only resoultion I had selected is 1080i. It definitely was not a bandwith issue. It was switching from 1080 60 and 1080 24.

Maybe there is a setting on my TV?
If it was switching to 1080P24 then you have that selected in your video options

It is either 720P, 1080I60 or 1080P24
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #290
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Spent almot all weekend comparing the TiVo netflix client with my PS3 version

starting out with my 6Mbps U-verse connection, resolution was bouncing in out 720p to a occasional 1080p24. PS3 was from low-sd to high-hd. Decided to upgrade to the next level, 12Mbps. TiVo started out working decently at 1080p24 then started bouncing between 720p and 1080p24. Made it terribly unwatchable, sometimes it would switch from 720p to 1080p24 then change it mind midway and switch back to 720p. Removed 1080p24 from my output selection so it then started thrashing between 720p and 1080i. Dont want to leave my TiVo in fixed resolution so gave up and went to my PS3. Left the PS3 info on while I watch 2 different hour long shows, stayed in X-HD or whatever the highest level is called the whole time, no thrashing. So to me it seems like there is a issue with the TiVo client, my guess is not enough free RAM to buffer high quality video properly so bounces between resolutions. People with higher speed /more reliable internet connections get around this issue.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:22 PM   #291
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So to me it seems like there is a issue with the TiVo client, my guess is not enough free RAM to buffer high quality video properly so bounces between resolutions.
I don't think this is the issue as the same issue occurs on Roku and Google TV. It isn't a "bug" but it is just that the Netflix adaptive bitrate system updates almost instantly to network conditions to keep from buffering. It isn't an issue on other hardware because they stick to a single resolution (like 1080p) so you don't see the switching.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #292
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People with higher speed /more reliable internet connections get around this issue.
Well, I'm getting speeds of 40Mpbs and that wasn't high enough for me to get around the issue.

Again, worked perfectly fine on PS3. Like you, I was getting the "XTRA HD" or whatever it's called.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:39 PM   #293
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Well, I'm getting speeds of 40Mpbs and that wasn't high enough for me to get around the issue.

Again, worked perfectly fine on PS3. Like you, I was getting the "XTRA HD" or whatever it's called.
How would you know if you had the issue on the PS3? The bitrate change to the highest 1080p version so subtle, it is very hard to notice on the PS3. Since the PS3 upconverts everything to 1080p, it isn't going to be seen by 99% of people since there is no resolution change. AFAIK, the PS3 version and the TiVo version are now using the same streams and the adaptive bitrate changes should now be the same. The problem is that the TiVo version changes resolutions mid-stream which is unacceptable.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #294
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It's very obvious on the PS3 and the Roku2 when it drops down from the 1080P stream. There is less detail on the screen when it happens. But of course that is not as bad as having an Hdmi resync like when the TiVo changes resolutions when streaming .
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:00 PM   #295
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I don't think this is the issue as the same issue occurs on Roku and Google TV. It isn't a "bug" but it is just that the Netflix adaptive bitrate system updates almost instantly to network conditions to keep from buffering. It isn't an issue on other hardware because they stick to a single resolution (like 1080p) so you don't see the switching.
how do we know ... as we mentioned above, pressing info on PS3 tells us what the quality is, mine was locked on "XTRA HD". Before I upgraded to 12Mbps from 6 I would see the quality bouncing around on my PS3 like it always seems to do on my TiVo.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #296
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Well, I'm getting speeds of 40Mpbs and that wasn't high enough for me to get around the issue.

Again, worked perfectly fine on PS3. Like you, I was getting the "XTRA HD" or whatever it's called.
It's "X-High/HD".

The rated speed of your Internet service is irrelevant (unless it's lower than the maximum rate you'll get from Netflix). You're not guaranteed any particular speed to an arbitrary point on the net and the responsiveness of the servers also comes into play. If the server is so loaded that it can't find time to shovel you content fast enough at the currently selected encoding bit rate/quality level, the amount of content in the player's buffer will start dropping and the player will ask for a lower bit rate/lower PQ encoding and start buffering that before it runs out. If conditions are such that it's easily keeping the buffer full, the player will switch to a higher bit rate/higher PQ encoding (unless it's already playing the best available for the title).

BTW, I'm fairly sure that there are no 1080i encodings. Titles with HD encodings usually have two 720p24 ones, at 2350- and 3600 Kbps and one 1080p24 one, at 4800 Kbps. (Add 192 Kbps for stereo and 384 Kbps for 5.1 channel DD+ sound). Some older television has p30 encodings and some British stuff has p25 encodings.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:37 PM   #297
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How would you know if you had the issue on the PS3? The bitrate change to the highest 1080p version so subtle, it is very hard to notice on the PS3. Since the PS3 upconverts everything to 1080p, it isn't going to be seen by 99% of people since there is no resolution change. AFAIK, the PS3 version and the TiVo version are now using the same streams and the adaptive bitrate changes should now be the same. The problem is that the TiVo version changes resolutions mid-stream which is unacceptable.
I would know because on the PS3 you can hit the select button and that brings up a box that tells you what resolution you are looking at. Agreed the changes are subtle but you can see the resolutions changing when you first start a movie by looking at the information in the box.

Edit: Sorry Jeff, missed your post earlier.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:41 PM   #298
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I would know because on the PS3 you can hit the select button and that brings up a box that tells you what resolution you are looking at. Agreed the changes are subtle but you can see the resolutions changing when you first start a movie by looking at the information in the box.
I posted a picture of this stream status overlay in this post above. My Sony BDP-S390 BD player's Netflix player also has that overlay.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:59 PM   #299
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how do we know ... as we mentioned above, pressing info on PS3 tells us what the quality is, mine was locked on "XTRA HD". Before I upgraded to 12Mbps from 6 I would see the quality bouncing around on my PS3 like it always seems to do on my TiVo.
Yes, it is easy to know when it gets to the highest quality 1080p stream. Even on the PS3, I've seen it drop to the lower HD version (which seems to be 720p on the TiVo) for 10 seconds or less. Again, you wouldn't even know this is happening unless you were really focusing on the picture quality because it is very subtle. My point is it is using the same adaptive bitrate streaming and even on the Roku, I see it drop down to the second level HD stream for a few seconds before it jumps back. And I use my Roku, PS3, Xbox, TiVo all hard wired to my router on a 30Mbps connection. The issue is not the Netflix app but the limitation in the way TiVo has forced Netflix to implement it.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:04 PM   #300
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But it's not subtle. It's very obvious when the background gets a little blurry and loses detail when it drops down from 1080P to 720P(and it looks hideous if it drops down to a 480P stream). It's annoying but not as annoying as it would be for the screen to blank out for a second or two when the HDMI connection resyncs.
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