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Old 05-13-2012, 10:43 PM   #91
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I suspect next season may be the next for the Office.
I agree
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:41 AM   #92
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:10 AM   #93
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It's all about the money. Network TV has figured out that 22 episodes is the financial sweet spot. More episodes and the cast/crew feel overworked and the license fees are excessive. Fewer episodes and the network isn't getting its money's worth and it doesn't have enough content to fill its timeslots. Also, it's much cheaper to produce 22 episodes of one show per year than it is to produce 13 episodes each of two shows.

Remember, the network doesn't really care that much about whether the story/plot is perfect. If there are some filler episodes, that's no big deal. It's all about the money, and the advertisers pay just as much for filler episodes as they do for substantive episodes.
Problem is quality suffers and their audience shrinks. It is very short term results oriented thinking. It may cost more to create two 13 episode seasons but then they might not bleed massive viewers from one season to the next because of the amount of lower quality full episodes.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #94
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Since they are relegating community to Friday nights, that gives the thread title a little more veracity. But the title still sucks.
Disagree. Networks have started to realize over the last two years there is money to be made on Fridays.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:35 PM   #95
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Disagree. Networks have started to realize over the last two years there is money to be made on Fridays.
Particularly with a fanbase as small and as loyal as that of Community. It gets pretty much the same numbers week in/week out, and will likely do the same numbers on Friday as it did on Thursday.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:57 PM   #96
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Particularly with a fanbase as small and as loyal as that of Community. It gets pretty much the same numbers week in/week out, and will likely do the same numbers on Friday as it did on Thursday.
I think it could go either way.

On the one hand, I'd say that Community's core fanbase are the kind of people who would not be home on Friday nights.

On the other hand, that same core fanbase probably has a disproportionately high concentration of DVR-users/timeshifters.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #97
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I think it could go either way.

On the one hand, I'd say that Community's core fanbase are the kind of people who would not be home on Friday nights.

On the other hand, that same core fanbase probably has a disproportionately high concentration of DVR-users/timeshifters.
This.

I thought I read somewhere that Community had one of the highest percentages of being watched via DVR. Unfortunately, that doesn't account for ratings, but it's still being viewed, just not by people that matter.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #98
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Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #99
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Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?
Well they do compile the stats, but I guess as long as the ability to skip ads is available, then the value of watching on the DVR is diminished greatly. And as others have said, for certain types of ads, like movie premiers, it is important that they be viewed that night. Watching a movie ad on a Tuesday for a movie that opened the previous Friday, is next to worthless for the advertiser.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:10 PM   #100
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Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?
The most important ratings that everyone sees and that make the most impact on a show's success are the "overnights," which come out the next morning after a show airs, and include ratings for live viewing, plus any DVR watching up until 2 am.

There are ratings for "Live + 7" which include the regular ratings plus all viewings via DVR within the next seven days after the original airing. However, these ratings usually come out about three weeks after the original airing, and there are serious questions about whether the advertisers are willing to pay for those extra viewers that are likely skipping the ads. So yes, they have figured out how to count DVR viewers, but whether those viewings count is a completely different story.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #101
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Ok, so if they are counting DVR viewers in the overnights, then that might make the impact of the move to Friday slightly less bad.

I know that if I was still young enough to be out partying on a Friday night, I would totally watch Community on my TiVo before going to bed.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:25 PM   #102
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Problem is quality suffers and their audience shrinks. It is very short term results oriented thinking. It may cost more to create two 13 episode seasons but then they might not bleed massive viewers from one season to the next because of the amount of lower quality full episodes.
So take all of the crap on TV now and double or triple it. Because all of those additional shows that will be needed to fill out a season of 39 weeks will be shows that were deemed not good enough to air now. That's saying something given they were deemed worse than shows like Cavemen and Work It.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:37 PM   #103
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Community consistently draws a 1.3 - 1.7 in the desired demo. If they can do that on Friday, it would be just about the highest rated show from any network on that night. That should be enough to keep it around for another season.

Now, if it drops lower than that - say into the sub 1.0 range - then it is done.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #104
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I'm also looking forward to the 66th straight year of NBC killing off Meet the Press.
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and elsewhere
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #105
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It’s Official: ’30 Rock’ Will End Its Run Next Season
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #106
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FYP.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:53 PM   #107
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Didn't Community pull similar ratings as Whitney when they were in the same time slot? I'm confused about why Whitney got a full 22 episode order and Community only got 13. Let's hope it doesn't lose its audience in the move to Fridays an NBC decides to order the back 9.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:02 PM   #108
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Didn't Community pull similar ratings as Whitney when they were in the same time slot? I'm confused about why Whitney got a full 22 episode order and Community only got 13. Let's hope it doesn't lose its audience in the move to Fridays an NBC decides to order the back 9.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Community has had three seasons to catch on and hasn't really ever broken out. Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year without any real help from lead in or promotions, and they're probably hoping that if they can improve the overall network ratings this season with promotions during the Olympics, during SNF, and with new shows that get buzz, then that will spill over into lifting Whitney's ratings as well.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #109
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I'm also looking forward to the 66th straight year of NBC killing off Meet the Press.
I heard it's only getting a 52-episode order this season.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #110
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Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year without any real help from lead in or promotions
lol, wut???

Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #111
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lol, wut???

Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?
Apparently. But even still, I think it's more telling with how a show does several weeks after its premiere, and then later in midseason when it switches timeslots. Whitney moved to Wednesdays at 8/7 and had no lead in and by then was not getting any promotion, and it still maintained roughly the same ratings it was getting when it followed The Office in the fall. That shows it was a decent self starter, and IMO, that's what got it renewed.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #112
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lol, wut???

Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?
That does remind me about the non-stop promotion for her show. I heard commercials for it on the radio constantly.
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:09 PM   #113
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Apparently. But even still, I think it's more telling with how a show does several weeks after its premiere, and then later in midseason when it switches timeslots. Whitney moved to Wednesdays at 8/7 and had no lead in and by then was not getting any promotion, and it still maintained roughly the same ratings it was getting when it followed The Office in the fall. That shows it was a decent self starter, and IMO, that's what got it renewed.
I thought when Whitney was getting better ratings than Community, then when it was moved to Community's slot, its ratings dropped to around where Community was holding steady...
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:23 PM   #114
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I thought when Whitney was getting better ratings than Community, then when it was moved to Community's slot, its ratings dropped to around where Community was holding steady...
I may be wrong, but I don't remember Whitney ever airing in the Thursday 8/7 timeslot. It started out in the fall in the Thursday 9:30/8:30 slot following The Office, and it premiered with over 3.0 (18-49) but by the end of the fall season, the ratings were hovering just under 2.0. At midseason, the timeslot was switched to Wednesday 8/7 where it spent the rest of the season and averaged about 1.7, which is pretty respectable given the lack of lead in and the ratings that other shows on NBC got.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:27 PM   #115
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If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Community has had three seasons to catch on and hasn't really ever broken out. Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year without any real help from lead in or promotions, and they're probably hoping that if they can improve the overall network ratings this season with promotions during the Olympics, during SNF, and with new shows that get buzz, then that will spill over into lifting Whitney's ratings as well.
I'd say that too, but even more that it's because NBC does not own Community, but it does own Whitney.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:24 PM   #116
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Your thread title suggests that those shows had been canceled, but the linked article says that they will all likely be renewed.

How is that "killing them off"?
Yeah. I thought you were saying that Parks and Rec had been canceled! I was about to be really disappointed. Glad it wasn't the case. That's one of the funniest shows on TV IMO.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:14 PM   #117
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Well they do compile the stats, but I guess as long as the ability to skip ads is available, then the value of watching on the DVR is diminished greatly.
You think that, I think that, but based upon actual scientific studies, some ridiculously huge percentage of DVR users DO NOT SKIP ADS.
[citation needed on myself]
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:27 PM   #118
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So take all of the crap on TV now and double or triple it. Because all of those additional shows that will be needed to fill out a season of 39 weeks will be shows that were deemed not good enough to air now. That's saying something given they were deemed worse than shows like Cavemen and Work It.
So you assume every canceled show or show that was not picked up was bad?

I realize that the networks air some awful shows but I think shorter seasons would raise the overall quality of network tv from where it is now. Well over one hundred pilots are created every year and then some people seem to randomly pick what they think is good but refuse to support or show any confidence in.

Shorter cycles make all these decisions easier, from giving new shows a full 13 episode run to canceling them or renewing them.

I don't see anything advantageous about 22 episode seasons. Seasons used to be 39 episodes at one time. I could make a large list of high quality shows and most would be 13 or less episodes. Parks and Rec had one of the best seasons of any sitcom ever last year and it was 13 episodes long.

Like I said so many pilots are being made it would not actually be that much harder to fill out their schedules. Especially if they sized up and ran shows for their entire runs to see what happens. Some shows improve dramatically over their first 6 plus episodes. Plus with a schedule designed for shorter seasons it is less of a risk to commit a show for 13 weeks.

Also shorter seasons would allow more consecutive runs of shows which I think is a problem for the networks and all their breaks.

I just don't see any evidence the current model is working for them other than their salespeople are still able to squeeze blood from large corporate stones.

Big bang and modern family get good ratings. Why not make 35 episodes each a year and really bring in the money. New episodes of those shows make more money than reruns of other shows. I will admit sitcoms and dramas are different. There is more leeway with sitcoms. I see no benefit in dramas going more than thirteen episodes a season but don't believe me just look at how cable who almost only has 10-13 episodes a season actually grow audiences and build up shows.

One other thing is because people talk about the relatively low cost of repeats fine, 13 episode seasons allow you to repeat entire previous seasons in order to build up new viewers for the next season. It used to be normal for reruns to go in order and complete a whole season. Now with special programming and summer programming I think few if any shows get full reruns, which is especially bad for serialized shows.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:38 AM   #119
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So you assume every canceled show or show that was not picked up was bad?

I realize that the networks air some awful shows but I think shorter seasons would raise the overall quality of network tv from where it is now. Well over one hundred pilots are created every year and then some people seem to randomly pick what they think is good but refuse to support or show any confidence in.

Shorter cycles make all these decisions easier, from giving new shows a full 13 episode run to canceling them or renewing them.

I don't see anything advantageous about 22 episode seasons. Seasons used to be 39 episodes at one time. I could make a large list of high quality shows and most would be 13 or less episodes. Parks and Rec had one of the best seasons of any sitcom ever last year and it was 13 episodes long.

Like I said so many pilots are being made it would not actually be that much harder to fill out their schedules. Especially if they sized up and ran shows for their entire runs to see what happens. Some shows improve dramatically over their first 6 plus episodes. Plus with a schedule designed for shorter seasons it is less of a risk to commit a show for 13 weeks.

Also shorter seasons would allow more consecutive runs of shows which I think is a problem for the networks and all their breaks.

I just don't see any evidence the current model is working for them other than their salespeople are still able to squeeze blood from large corporate stones.

Big bang and modern family get good ratings. Why not make 35 episodes each a year and really bring in the money. New episodes of those shows make more money than reruns of other shows. I will admit sitcoms and dramas are different. There is more leeway with sitcoms. I see no benefit in dramas going more than thirteen episodes a season but don't believe me just look at how cable who almost only has 10-13 episodes a season actually grow audiences and build up shows.

One other thing is because people talk about the relatively low cost of repeats fine, 13 episode seasons allow you to repeat entire previous seasons in order to build up new viewers for the next season. It used to be normal for reruns to go in order and complete a whole season. Now with special programming and summer programming I think few if any shows get full reruns, which is especially bad for serialized shows.
I think someone pointed it out that it's more expensive to run TWO 13 episode shows than one 22 episode show, and that's why it's not done the frequently. That said, I agree with all your points, and I'd be fine with having say 3 seasons, one from Sept to November, one from Jan to March and another from April to early June of 13 episode runs of all shows. Yeah I know post Memorial Day is already considered summer season, but is it really? I don't know. At least on the east coast, most schools are still open in June, so vacations are usually reserved for later late June before camps start. I think it would be fun to have all those options, but it would give me adjita (or however you spell that) juggling all these shows withing my 50 show SP limit
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:41 AM   #120
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You think that, I think that, but based upon actual scientific studies, some ridiculously huge percentage of DVR users DO NOT SKIP ADS.
[citation needed on myself]
I know that, but advertisers seem to be skittish about it, and networks have been trying for years to get rid of that function from DVRs (heck they even tried to do it from VCRs back in the day). On DirecTV NBC and ABC both have On Demand streaming of shows a little bit after they are shown live....and they forced DirecTV to disable 30 second skip for those shows.
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