Game of Thrones - "The Old Gods and New" - S2E6 - 5/06/12 ***spoilers*** - Page 4

Anubys · 05-09-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

For the love of god, who made these rules up? They aren't forum rules as far as I know, and as far as I know, no moderator has ever stepped in and put a stop to it. So who made this official decree that, despite not breaking any of the rules of the forum, that discussion can't be here?

I'm not saying it's against the rules, I'm just saying we have had this discussion over, and over, and over. How many times are we going to go over the same fraking thing?

if you want to have a discussion about the rules, the book versus the show, whether you should do it or not, who likes the spoilers and who hates them...etc. JUST READ THE THREAD FOR THE PREVIOUS EPISODE or any thread for any previous episode. We have had ALL these discussions already. A million times over.

I'm happy to discuss it in PM so we don't bore everyone else to tears about the same damn thing. AGAIN.

For the record: I think Littlefinger saw and recognized Arya. I can't imagine him not knowing what she looks like the second he sees her; and I'm pretty sure he saw her. I do applaud the director for making sure it's fuzzy and up for debate, though.

TonyD79 · 05-09-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

For the love of god, who made these rules up? They aren't forum rules as far as I know, and as far as I know, no moderator has ever stepped in and put a stop to it. So who made this official decree that, despite not breaking any of the rules of the forum, that discussion can't be here?

The posters sort of did.

The rules for posting never had to deal with this sort of show. So they can't address it unless modified.

How about just being respectful in our choices. Is that so hard?

LordKronos · 05-09-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubys

I'm not saying it's against the rules, I'm just saying we have had this discussion over, and over, and over. How many times are we going to go over the same fraking thing?

Well, we weren't having this discussion until you started it. And you stated it like it's a foregone conclusion that book discussion has to be in the other thread. And yes, I have read previous discussions. I've read every thread from every episode. I don't know where this decree came from. Every time, I've seen a bunch of arguing that it shouldn't be here, and I've seen a bunch of arguing that there's no reason it needs to leave. At one point it seemed more people were saying "just don't read the emails or read the forum on your broken mobile web browser". Now at this point you are acting like everyone should know it's the opposite.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. I like to see discussion about the current episode and how it relates to the book. But as someone who hasn't read the book, I wouldn't dare set foot in a thread designated specifically for book readers as that's just asking for major spoilers. At least here, people keep it relevent to the current episode and are pretty discrete about any actual spoilers.

And no, I'm not taking it to PMs. You didn't keep your "book talk not welcome" post in PMs. Why should you express your opinion loudly and I have to be quiet so as to not distrub anyone?

LordKronos · 05-09-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyD79

The posters sort of did.

The rules for posting never had to deal with this sort of show. So they can't address it unless modified.

How about just being respectful in our choices. Is that so hard?

What do you mean, being respectful in our choices? You mean I should be respectful of your choice in what I'm welcome to discuss here? You can't just choose for everyone. I like having these discussion here, and I choose to have them in this thread. Please be respectful of my choice. See how that works?

astrohip · 05-09-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

What do you mean, being respectful in our choices? You mean I should be respectful of your choice in what I'm welcome to discuss here? You can't just choose for everyone. I like having these discussion here, and I choose to have them in this thread. Please be respectful of my choice. See how that works?

These threads are about an episode of a TV show. Discussion of the books have -zero- place here. Really, what does it have to do with this show? The show is what the show is. Let's discuss it to our heart's desire. But how do the books enter into this? Discussing how they differ, or what happened in the books has no relevance to these threads, which are a discussion of a TV show.

If you want to discuss the books, do it in the threads that say "book discussion".

Seriously, why is this even an issue?

PS: I've read up to Book Two. I plan on reading each book before each season, because... well, I like to have read the books when I watch TV/movies based on books. But I don't feel any overwhelming need to discuss those books. But you might. So find that thread and talk away.

astrohip · 05-09-2012, 10:06 PM

And hey, it's not just me. Here's a verbatim quote from Alan Sepinwall's blog...

Quote:

And finally, my attempt to keep these comments free of book spoilers has been mostly successful, but some people just don't seem to get it, or care. Once again, let me remind you of the spoiler policy as it relates to this show: we are here to TALK ABOUT THE TV SHOW AS A TV SHOW, AND NOT AN ENDLESS SERIES OF COMPARISONS TO THE BOOKS. If you want to talk about things from the books that haven't yet appeared on the show — whether they are plot points, characters we haven't met yet, still-to-be-explained motivation, etc. — please do so in the message board topic I set up for this episode. I don't care how clever or oblique you think you're being: NO BOOK DISCUSSION IN THE COMMENTS. PERIOD. Anything even vaguely over the line gets deleted, and if anyone notices a comment before I do, feel free to email me.

LordKronos · 05-09-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrohip

And hey, it's not just me. Here's a verbatim quote from Alan Sepinwall's blog...

Who is Alan Sepinwall, and what do the rules of his blog have to do with this forum? So if I create my own blog with some rules, does that mean my rules apply to this forum too? I'm not really sure what your point is.

LordKronos · 05-09-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrohip

These threads are about an episode of a TV show. Discussion of the books have -zero- place here. Really, what does it have to do with this show? The show is what the show is. Let's discuss it to our heart's desire. But how do the books enter into this? Discussing how they differ, or what happened in the books has no relevance to these threads, which are a discussion of a TV show.

The book has no relevance? I've learn a hell of a lot about this series by book readers posting about things that weren't in the show.

Quote:

If you want to discuss the books, do it in the threads that say "book discussion".

Because there's no rule saying I have to, and I see no reason I should go there. Going to a thread where the expectation is that everyone HAS read the book is just asking for spoilers to be posted right out in the open without spoiler tags.

Quote:

Seriously, why is this even an issue?

That's what I'm wondering. Why is this an issue?

Quote:

But I don't feel any overwhelming need to discuss those books. But you might. So find that thread and talk away.

No thanks, I'm more comfortable here.

TonyD79 · 05-09-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrohip

PS: I've read up to Book Two. I plan on reading each book before each season, because... well, I like to have read the books when I watch TV/movies based on books. But I don't feel any overwhelming need to discuss those books. But you might. So find that thread and talk away.

I've thought about doing that but I started watching the series and it is so well done, I've decided to read after. I didn't start watching until just before season 2 so I haven't read the first book yet. I'm going to read during the long downtime between seasons.

Mishkin · 05-09-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

Who is Alan Sepinwall, and what do the rules of his blog have to do with this forum? So if I create my own blog with some rules, does that mean my rules apply to this forum too? I'm not really sure what your point is.

Agree most wholeheartedly. In fact, I have a link to a blog that concurs.

TonyD79 · 05-09-2012, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

The book has no relevance? I've learn a hell of a lot about this series by book readers posting about things that weren't in the show.

Too bad you can't follow the show without the books. The shows have been quite clear.

cherry ghost · 05-09-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heySkippy

Book info, but not a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Uther · 05-10-2012, 02:12 AM

Just put everybody who talks about the books here on ignore. Everybody will be happier.

Anubys · 05-10-2012, 06:24 AM

This is all my fault, and I'm sorry.

I don't care about people who read the book talking about it (it seems strange, since this is a thread about a show, but I respect their right to do so). I don't care if they put things in spoilers. I even learn a few things from people who give BACKGROUND info (which was very helpful in season 1).

What I complained about is the argument about "should we do this?" "is this allowed"...which is exactly what I started AGAIN, by my rant/plea (I thought I was pleading not to start, some people might consider it a rant).

My point is that we've discussed this. We all have differing views. People who read the book want to post. Some of us like it, some of us hate it, some are indifferent. So let's not argue about it. Let's everybody do what they will do ANYWAY

and let's just put spoiler stuff in spoiler text.

I did NOT want to know that the dragons being taken away was not in the books. That information should have gone to the other thread.

Steveknj · 05-10-2012, 07:07 AM

While it's not in the rules, I just think it's just the respectful thing to do. Many of us here watch the show, but want to read the books too. To me, and this is my opinion, discussing the books here can ruin my enjoyment of the books. In fact, the fun part of reading the books AFTER the seeing the show is finding out how they differ. Reading about it here is just as much a spoiler as revealing what will happen in the next episode. That's why there's another thread for it. Just have a little respect for those of us he either haven't read the book yet and want to, or, and maybe even worse, are in the middle of the book and don't want to have it ruined for them. And this is even MORE an issue since it's been stated that there are some serious deviations from the book.

But I'm sure you won't see it my way.

And for Uther, who says block everyone, yeah, right, it's really hard to block someone AFTER they gave away a plot point form the book. I don't have a crystal ball to know who's going to post book stuff.

And I noticed that most of the people who say that it should be ok to post book stuff are relative newcomers to here (or don't post a lot). I think those of us who come regularly understand that there are written rules, but also UNWRITTEN ones that we all respect.

Shaunnick · 05-10-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveknj

And I noticed that most of the people who say that it should be ok to post book stuff are relative newcomers to here (or don't post a lot). I think those of us who come regularly understand that there are written rules, but also UNWRITTEN ones that we all respect.

Lurkers understand the rules. Don't hate because of low post counts.

photoshopgrl · 05-10-2012, 08:10 AM

Did I seriously just waste time on my vacation reading two pages of yet another book vs non book BS in this thread? For the love of Jeff people. Your spend more time arguing this point than talking about either. It's F'ing ridiculous!

IMO I stand by my opinion that Littlefinger recognized her. I see him as someone that not much gets past and he'll save that info until it serves his interest (or pocket) to reveal.

Steveknj · 05-10-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

Did I seriously just waste time on my vacation reading two pages of yet another book vs non book BS in this thread? For the love of Jeff people. Your spend more time arguing this point than talking about either. It's F'ing ridiculous!

IMO I stand by my opinion that Littlefinger recognized her. I see him as someone that not much gets past and he'll save that info until it serves his interest (or pocket) to reveal.

If you are on vacation, what are you doing HERE? :P

Yeah, I know, we keep harping on it and nothing changes, but there's always some new voice that comes in and starts it all over again.

And I agree with your assessment.

Anubys · 05-10-2012, 08:49 AM

I think people simply HOPE that LittleFinger didn't recognize Arya (because we all love her and want her safe). But if you put your feelings aside and think of it logically, Arya lived at King's Landing for a few months. LittleFinger should recognize her instantly; this is the Hand of the King's daughter, after all.

Saying he wouldn't recognize her would be the same as saying Cersei or Joffrey wouldn't recognize her.

billypritchard · 05-10-2012, 09:22 AM

It is very hard as a book reader to make comments in this thread. If it's that big a deal to everyone, then maybe we should do two different threads, book and non-book.

Steveknj · 05-10-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billypritchard

It is very hard as a book reader to make comments in this thread. If it's that big a deal to everyone, then maybe we should do two different threads, book and non-book.

We do:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=486826

billypritchard · 05-10-2012, 09:27 AM

Okay, I'm out of this thread then. Later!

LordKronos · 05-10-2012, 09:51 AM

OK, lets discuss the show.

The Lannisters have quite a situation here. According to the rules of the land (both written and unwritten) their house has no real claim to the throne. But they've decided they want to rule anyway, and they just want everyone else to go along with their rule. So here they are, getting attacked left and right by Robb Stark saying "you have no right to rule...you have no more claim to the throne than any of us."

So Joffrey is just sitting here on his throne thinking "I just want to rule my lands in peace. For the love of the old gods and the new, can't you just take your little fights about who is King somewhere else? Westeros is my Kingdom. If you want to fight over who is king, go do it over in Essos. There's plenty of land their for your little wars".

But Robb is just like "I want to stay here. I'll be glad to end these wars if you'll just let us coexist. If you don't like what goes on in the North, then just ignore any of the ravens from the north."

But Joffrey is like "please, I've already been hit by a cowpie. I don't want your ravens pooping on me too."

So how do they solve this? With a beheading? The last time Joffrey tried to solve his problem with a beheading, it just got him into an even bigger mess.

Meanwhile, Dany is over in the paradise of Qarth, trying to enjoy a break from all the fighting, and now she's like "holy crap, who just took my dragons".

This show is so exciting. Can't wait to see what happens next.

tiams · 05-10-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKronos

OK, lets discuss the show.

The Lannisters have quite a situation here. According to the rules of the land (both written and unwritten) their house has no real claim to the throne. But they've decided they want to rule anyway, and they just want everyone else to go along with their rule. So here they are, getting attacked left and right by Robb Stark saying "you have no right to rule...you have no more claim to the throne than any of us."

So Joffrey is just sitting here on his throne thinking "I just want to rule my lands in peace. For the love of the old gods and the new, can't you just take your little fights about who is King somewhere else? Westeros is my Kingdom. If you want to fight over who is king, go do it over in Essos. There's plenty of land their for your little wars".

But Robb is just like "I want to stay here. I'll be glad to end these wars if you'll just let us coexist. If you don't like what goes on in the North, then just ignore any of the ravens from the north."

But Joffrey is like "please, I've already been hit by a cowpie. I don't want your ravens pooping on me too."

So how do they solve this? With a beheading? The last time Joffrey tried to solve his problem with a beheading, it just got him into an even bigger mess.

Meanwhile, Dany is over in the paradise of Qarth, trying to enjoy a break from all the fighting, and now she's like "holy crap, who just took my dragons".

This show is so exciting. Can't wait to see what happens next.

But isn't Joffrey a Baratheon, not a Lannister? He is king because he inherited the throne from his "father". So isn't the throne considered to be held by a Baratheon? Or is it considered Lannister because his mother is queen regent?

heySkippy · 05-10-2012, 10:18 AM

Yes, Joff is a Baratheon and his throne derives from Robert. If some real proof were to appear that he is a bastard from incest, his claim to the throne vanishes and his mother becomes less than nothing.

Steveknj · 05-10-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiams

But isn't Joffrey a Baratheon, not a Lannister? He is king because he inherited the throne from his "father". So isn't the throne considered to be held by a Baratheon? Or is it considered Lannister because his mother is queen regent?

He's a Baratheon in name only. His bloodlines are just Lannister as he's a product of Ceirce and Jamie. Since that secret is essentially out, that means he has no claim.

To me, there are two who have a true claim. Stannis (as Ned Stark said) as brother of Robert, and Danys, as the linear heir to the throne through the Targaryans. But Dany lost her claim by her father losing the war with Robert. She'd have to win it back via conquest.

heySkippy · 05-10-2012, 10:27 AM

Dany lost her claim by not having a penis. Women don't stand in line for the throne in Westeros (with the exception of Dorne) period. There has never been a woman sitting on the Iron Throne and it would be quite a departure if one did.

That's not to say she can't and won't conquer Westeros and change things, but the way it stands, she has no claim.

aRKade · 05-10-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveknj

He's a Baratheon in name only. His bloodlines are just Lannister as he's a product of Ceirce and Jamie. Since that secret is essentially out, that means he has no claim.

To me, there are two who have a true claim. Stannis (as Ned Stark said) as brother of Robert, and Danys, as the linear heir to the throne through the Targaryans. But Dany lost her claim by her father losing the war with Robert. She'd have to win it back via conquest.

So far publicly there has only been an accusation that Joffrey is a bastard. Stannis is making his claim to the throne using that accusation but has no proof. Besides us TV watchers the only people who know the truth are the ones in power (or are dead). They certainly aren't going to make that information public. So as far as the public really knows Joffrey is the king with the true claim.

I'd say it is similar to the accusation that President Obama isn't an American. No one has shown any real proof but the accusation has been made. Difference of course is that this accusation is not true.

stellie93 · 05-10-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aRKade

Besides us TV watchers the only people who know the truth are the ones in power (or are dead). They certainly aren't going to make that information public. So as far as the public really knows Joffrey is the king with the true claim.

Wasn't there a guy shouting on street corners saying that Joffrey is illegitimate? I thought the story had spread pretty far. After all, if Stannis wants to use it to claim the throne, he needs the people to know why his claim is just and be behind him.

Steveknj · 05-10-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stellie93

Wasn't there a guy shouting on street corners saying that Joffrey is illegitimate? I thought the story had spread pretty far. After all, if Stannis wants to use it to claim the throne, he needs the people to know why his claim is just and be behind him.

I could be wrong in my memory of what happened, but I thought Ned's proof had gotten to Stannis.