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Old 05-10-2012, 10:30 AM   #31
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So, the riot in the streets. I take it that Lolys (sp?) and her mother are just written out of the show entirely? They were never very important, I suppose, but I remember that during the street riot she was raped by 50 men.

Was that the high septon that was pulled apart (literally) by the mob?
I think we could drop Lolys and most of the other court-hanger-ons in general. Doesn't Bronn marry Lolys? Not that it matters really.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:15 AM   #32
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I'm sad about some of the stuff that's been left out or changed, but not sad that we've missed seeing Arya pick leeches off Roose Bolton at Harrenhall.

What is Littlefinger doing at Harrenhall, anyway? I'm trying to figure out what plot point that will drive and hope he's not there so he could recognize Arya for whatever reason. That would be a departure that I don't see the need for.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:39 AM   #33
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I'm sad about some of the stuff that's been left out or changed, but not sad that we've missed seeing Arya pick leeches off Roose Bolton at Harrenhall.

What is Littlefinger doing at Harrenhall, anyway? I'm trying to figure out what plot point that will drive and hope he's not there so he could recognize Arya for whatever reason. That would be a departure that I don't see the need for.
He was there to negotiate the marriage of Joffrey to Margery. Joff wins in that matchup.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:27 PM   #34
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If I'm remembering right, Littlefinger wasn't in book 2 that much. I thought maybe they just like the character and actor and are trying to get him more work.

I would love to see Arya and the leeches--also I'm anxious to see Bastard Bolton.

It's too bad they can't give us 2 ten episode blocks per year and just do everything that's in the books. It's also too bad that GRR Martin writes so darn slow. I want book 6.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #35
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Yeah, they have really written Littlefinger up quite a bit and they've put him in different places at different times to compress time and make things a bit more interesting.

I'm curious to see who is the next death for Arya because thus far they have changed who she kills. Amory Lorch is dead and he was killed as a consequence of the Weasel Soup scenario.

I wonder if she will still free northmen to take over Harrenhal, which would give her the third death in Jaqen's killing of the guards.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:15 PM   #36
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I'm curious to see who is the next death for Arya because thus far they have changed who she kills. Amory Lorch is dead and he was killed as a consequence of the Weasel Soup scenario.
I think the "3rd death" has to be the same in order to set up the Weasel Soup scenario, and the changeover in control of Harrenhal.

ETA: Not to mention Arya's future. I think Arya's 3rd name is necessary for her entire future story line.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:53 PM   #37
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Most fans agree that the Dany story in book 2 is the weakest part of book 2. Besides the house of the undying, nothing of significance occurs in Qarth. As part of the adaptation they have opted to externalize her struggles into a more explicit character building journey. And there is no reason why the end-game of her Qarth journey won't be the same as the book - so it will likely have no long term impact. She'll recover her dragons and learn something from that experience. Also, the lack of threat of someone trying to take her dragons in the book at that point in the story could be argue to be a plot hole.
If I remember correctly, Xaro Xhoan Daxos was setting up a scheme to steal Dany's dragon's. The tradition in Qarth was that after their marriage, the couple could ask anything from one another and they have to comply. Dany would ask for the money to buy ships and an army, Xaro was planning to ask for her dragons. I think if Dany had refused she would have been executed, and Xaro would have gotten the dragons and not lost any money.
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #38
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Yeah, it's definitely going to be interesting to see how they go from book-film now. Is Dany going to go to the slave market and get the unsullied? Is Jon going to join the wildlings and (book 3 spoiler)
Spoiler:
kill halfhand?
. I'm guessing that they'll end this season with Stannis' assault on King's Landing.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:39 PM   #39
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Yeah, it's definitely going to be interesting to see how they go from book-film now. Is Dany going to go to the slave market and get the unsullied? Is Jon going to join the wildlings and (book 3 spoiler)
Spoiler:
kill halfhand?
. I'm guessing that they'll end this season with Stannis' assault on King's Landing.
I think they definitely have to have Jon
Spoiler:
join the wildlings.
And they are definitely going to end with
Spoiler:
the Battle of the Blackwater, final scene being Tyrion being knocked unconscious into the water...


Also, I'm not trying to be the spoiler police, but according to the OP are we to spoilerize every event that hasn't happened yet, even if in book 2?

I definitely appreciate the spoiler tags for future books as others do. I'm on book 5, so that's the only thing that effects me personally.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:19 PM   #40
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I think they definitely have to have Jon
Spoiler:
join the wildlings.
And they are definitely going to end with
Spoiler:
the Battle of the Blackwater, final scene being Tyrion being knocked unconscious into the water...


Also, I'm not trying to be the spoiler police, but according to the OP are we to spoilerize every event that hasn't happened yet, even if in book 2?

I definitely appreciate the spoiler tags for future books as others do. I'm on book 5, so that's the only thing that effects me personally.
Second spoiler, I think that's going to be episode 9, and I think George wrote that episode.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:35 PM   #41
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Episode 7 continues to show differences from the books but we did get to hear Ygritte say "You know nothing, Jon Snow." I had wondered before the season how they would handle scenes with Jamie since he is largely absent in CoK. It should be interesting where they end his segment this season.

It is interesting reading the reactions of so many in the episode thread doubting the final scene with the burned bodies being raised up.

And for PhotoshopGrl and her growing hatred for Theon:
Spoiler:
she should be happy to find out the bodies are not Bran and Rickon. She also must be patient to see how Theon's storyline turns out.

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Old 05-14-2012, 11:48 PM   #42
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Looks like they're starting to insert some things from the third book into the second season
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:30 AM   #43
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Looks like they're starting to insert some things from the third book into the second season
One growing problem is the tendency for Martin to divvy up the characters among the books. That won't really work in the TV show unless they start releasing actors from their contracts and then hope they're still available when they're needed again...
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:16 AM   #44
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One growing problem is the tendency for Martin to divvy up the characters among the books. That won't really work in the TV show unless they start releasing actors from their contracts and then hope they're still available when they're needed again...
I'm surprised they kept Jaime on the sidelines this long actually. I think the Bran/Rickon thing would almost be impossible to pass off in this medium.

Along those lines, spoiler for the end of the book/Book 3
Spoiler:

Arstan mind be hard to pull off since we all see him. And they were reminding viewers of his existence last episode. But he had so little screentime that a beard might throw off viewers. Whatever the case, it'll be interesting to see if they speed up the reveal for that reason.

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Old 05-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #45
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Along those lines, spoiler for the end of the book/Book 3
Spoiler:

Arstan mind be hard to pull off since we all see him. And they were reminding viewers of his existence last episode. But he had so little screentime that a beard might throw off viewers. Whatever the case, it'll be interesting to see if they speed up the reveal for that reason.
Who?

Although it's kind of fun to have some "surprise" elements in the TV show, I'm a little dismayed at some of the turns the show is taking. Is Jon Snow going to be captured by the wildlings rather than willingly join them?

Also..
Spoiler:
Will he still have to kill the Halfhand?


Some of these changes I just don't get. Was it just so they could build up Ygritte to give her character more weight?

The whole stolen dragons storyline is another. It was cool to see Pyat Pree do his magic tricks, but was the murder of the 13 (or 11 as it were) necessary? I think they just must have had the need to dramatize the time in Qarth a bit more so they vilified Pyat and Xaro in order to have a payoff. Now they're making Xaro to be a much darker character than he was in book 2. [Spoilerize anything about him in book 5 please, I'm not quite done with it! ]
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:56 AM   #46
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Who?
Spoiler:
Barristan Selmy. Who poses an interesting adaptation problem, because...to be continued...
(Double-spoiled because the next bit is deeper in the series)
Spoiler:
...a character shows up around Dany later on who is eventually revealed to be Barristan. But of course on TV there's no surprise, because we know what the guy looks like.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
Spoiler:
Barristan Selmy. Who poses an interesting adaptation problem, because...to be continued...
(Double-spoiled because the next bit is deeper in the series)
Spoiler:
...a character shows up around Dany later on who is eventually revealed to be Barristan. But of course on TV there's no surprise, because we know what the guy looks like.
Oh okay. Yeah. I had forgotten that character's name.

Spoiler:
I think there will be some attempt at hiding him in the show. Perhaps behind a beard and a scarf around his face. On top of that, I think few people who didn't read the books will even remember who Barristan Selmy is and what he looks like. On that note, he's one of my favorite characters because he's the only other character with as much honor, if not more, than Ned Stark.

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Old 05-15-2012, 11:55 AM   #48
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I'm about halfway in book 3 and like you guys I don't understand some of the steps they are taking or how they'll get back to the plots. Why leave out the crannogmen? They play a central role in how Bran gets his third "eye". Is the wildling he's traveling with going to serve that purpose now? Is Arya going to get captured by the Brave companions?

Spoilered because I'm not sure if it happened in book 2 or 3:
Spoiler:
Is Tyrion going to marry Sansa?

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #49
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I'm about halfway in book 3 and like you guys I don't understand some of the steps they are taking or how they'll get back to the plots. Why leave out the crannogmen? They play a central role in how Bran gets his third "eye". Is the wildling he's traveling with going to serve that purpose now? Is Arya going to get captured by the Brave companions?
I still vote that they'll meet the Crannogmen along the way out in the woods. Maybe they'll run into them and find refuge and then guide Bran from there. Likely wouldn't happen until Season 3 though. /fingerscrossed

They have built Osha up to being a pretty strong character however, so who knows.

Arya still has time to leave Harrenhal and although the relationship she's building up with Tywin is interesting, I'm not sure where they're going with it.

Is Tywin going to leave Harrenhal and release her? Or is Roose Bolton somehow going to take over the castle? Here's a theory on Arya's third death:
I think they'll bring in some Northmen prisoners, like they do in the book. Arya's gut feeling will be to use her third death on Tywin (we saw her wanting to try and kill him with the knife in this episode). But then she'll ask Jaqen for help with the Northmen, he'll say she's only owed one death, etc. She'll go through her naming Jaqen routine, he'll agree to help, free the Northmen, the revolt will lead Tywin to flee Harrenhal. The debt will be paid by a guard Jaqen kills. The whole Weasel stew indecent will not be used.

By the way, have we heard Arya called by another name in Tywin's presence? All I remember is him calling her "girl." In the book she goes by both "Weasel and "Nymeria" I believe.
Spoiler:
It would be good for them to give her another name considering her path to becoming "no one."


Quote:
Spoilered because I'm not sure if it happened in book 2 or 3:
Spoiler:
Is Tyrion going to marry Sansa?
Yeah that's book 3 I'm pretty sure.

Spoiler:
That happens after the Battle of the Blackwater.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:56 PM   #50
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I still vote that they'll meet the Crannogmen along the way out in the woods.
I doubt it. It would be great, but there's just SO MUCH in the books and they become denser and denser, there's going to have to be a lot of compression. And folding the Crannogmen's function into Osha would save a fair amount of precious screen time.

The needs of a TV show are vastly different than the needs of a book, and I think we were tricked by how faithful the first season was into thinking that could possibly continue. But it can't, and increasingly not as they get deeper into it.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #51
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I doubt it. It would be great, but there's just SO MUCH in the books and they become denser and denser, there's going to have to be a lot of compression. And folding the Crannogmen's function into Osha would save a fair amount of precious screen time.

The needs of a TV show are vastly different than the needs of a book, and I think we were tricked by how faithful the first season was into thinking that could possibly continue. But it can't, and increasingly not as they get deeper into it.
You're probably right, but I'm still hoping we'll see Meera and Jojen in season 3 and the reason we haven't seen them yet is so they didn't have to cast the parts and sign actors to an extra year. The biggest problem with Osha taking on their role is
Spoiler:
will Rickon accompany them beyond the wall and whatever plans Martin had for Osha and Rickon in future books.

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Old 05-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #52
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The whole stolen dragons storyline is another. It was cool to see Pyat Pree do his magic tricks, but was the murder of the 13 (or 11 as it were) necessary? I think they just must have had the need to dramatize the time in Qarth a bit more so they vilified Pyat and Xaro in order to have a payoff. Now they're making Xaro to be a much darker character than he was in book 2. [Spoilerize anything about him in book 5 please, I'm not quite done with it! ]
Here's why I'm ok with the Qarth changes. Book 2 Dany had the most boring chapters (and I think I read that she only had 6 chapters total.)

What do most people remember about Dany in Book 2? House of the Undying. So either you have one of your main main characters sit out the majority of the season, or you more or less give her some motivation and dramatic points along the way (as opposed to boring, everyone welcomes her in, etc. of the books)

Having said that, I've pretty much gotten myself divorced from the book purist view, but my initial reactions about the dragons getting stolen was not nearly as nice I had to think about it for a day before calming down.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:27 AM   #53
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I'm not fond of most of the changes between the books and the show.

But I absolutely love the Arya/Tywin scenes.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #54
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Here's a fun little comparison of changes between the books and the show in Rolling Stone magazine:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/l...books-20120515
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #55
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Great article. Thanks. One thing it pointed out that I hadn't even thought of--I've read all 5 books, and I never really got a feeling for who Margery is. I love how she's portrayed here. Also, I hope they don't write out her grandmother.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:30 AM   #56
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New episode! Here are my thoughts:

I loved seeing ol' Rattleshirt! I think they did him well and I'm glad they didn't write him out. It's interesting how they reunited Jon with Qhorin. It almost makes more sense. Now Jon feels very guilty for having his brothers die whilst looking for him. Qhorin has already started in motion the reason Jon needs to
Spoiler:
kill him
.

Oh, I also think they did the discovery of the obsidian knives and horn well. I was wondering how they were going to do that. In the end it doesn't really matter who found them or how. Digging trenches in the Fist of the First Men almost makes more sense.

Also, Ghost is still gone so I wonder if we will see him again soon? What about the skin changer in Rattleshirt's party? I wonder if he'll be around.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:37 AM   #57
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So, no weasel soup, just walk through the gates. It might have made Catlyn's decision to release Jaime less confusing to non-book readers to have shown a conversation with Jaime where he swore on his honor to work for the release of the girls. Also would have been easier to understand if they had gotten word that Bran and Rickon were dead. They certainly didn't wait long to reveal the boys hiding in the crypt.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:38 AM   #58
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So, no weasel soup, just walk through the gates. It might have made Catlyn's decision to release Jaime less confusing to non-book readers to have shown a conversation with Jaime where he swore on his honor to work for the release of the girls.
This whole story line has been butchered, in my opinion. Most of the changes they have made have been good and made the story flow better on television. The Stark story has been ruined.

They made no effort to really do a proper exposition on the tension Jamie's imprisonment creates in the book. They threw together a couple scenes of men fighting, but that doesn't cover it. As mentioned above, the word that the boys had been killed by Theon is the REASON Cat frees Jamie. Not to mention, the conversation they left out where he swears on his honor to do his best is a significant event in the books. Jamie's story progression, and the evolution of his opinion on his own legacy and honor is very important. Dropping those elements to make Jamie just some Lannister prick is not good.

They have also rushed the Robb romance which wasn't in the books at all (no Robb point of view) and wasn't even exposed, correct me if I'm wrong, until book 3. Having read all the books, I see what they are up to, but I don't like it.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #59
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If Blackwater is episode 9, one opportunity they have really missed is showing Tyrion's preparations.

Spoiler:

Tyrion's triumph is not just the victory at Blackwater, but that he was able to devise a strategy and plan the forging of the chain so far ahead. The fact that he was able to plan an elaborate trap to defend Kings Landing while simultaneously fending off intrigue at Court makes his contribution in the Battle of Blackwater that much more admirable, and makes the injustice he suffers in its aftermath that much more meaningful.

A simple setup scene -- similar to how Halfhand set up John Snow for the wildlings this past week -- where Tyrion visits the city smiths, and we see they are making *something* at Tyrion's command, would have paid off well. They undoubtedly will have a similar scene at the beginning of the next episode, but it will lose some impact for being so close to the battle, and after most of the intrigue has taken place.

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Old 05-21-2012, 01:44 PM   #60
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If Blackwater is episode 9, one opportunity they have really missed is showing Tyrion's preparations.

Spoiler:

A simple setup scene -- similar to how Halfhand set up John Snow for the wildlings this past week -- where Tyrion visits the city smiths, and we see they are making *something* at Tyrion's command, would have paid off well. They undoubtedly will have a similar scene at the beginning of the next episode, but it will lose some impact for being so close to the battle, and after most of the intrigue has taken place.
I was thinking the same thing. However, I'm sure they will show the preparation in the next episode and the event itself in the final episode.
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