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Old 05-03-2012, 05:37 PM   #1
Rickvz
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Game of Thrones - Season Two and Book 2 Discussion

The most recent episode thread (s2e5) seems to be drawing as many posts complaining about what is posted, especially if it contains any reference to the books, than posts about the actual content of the episode. While there is a thread in the Happy Hour section, many folks that have only read the first couple of books or are currently reading the second book are afraid to read it since there is discussion of all of the books there.

For that reason, I thought that it might be good to have a thread that allows book discussion as it relates to the current season. Thus the title indicating a discussion of Season 2 and Book 2 (A Clash of Kings.) Perhaps this thread can provide a place to discuss the differences between the show and the book and impressions on how the scenes in the book are brought to the screen.

I would suggest that spoiler tags be used to discuss events that are anticipated in future episodes but not yet seen such as:
Spoiler:
the Battle on the Blackwater.


GoT is my most anticipated show each week and I loved the books as well. Hopefully this thread will allow a bit more freedom to make comments based on a synthesis of the two. For me a simple comment that I was disappointed that they did not follow the book for Dany's Qartheen dress resulted in complaints. I still hold out hope that they will add that scene in a later episode.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #2
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I'm down for this. I just finished book 3, but I don't think it should be too hard to keep the discussion to book two relevant events and be able to discuss how things are diferent between the two. I can still respect the spoiler tag rule also.

Now the real question - how lonely will the other episode threads get since all the cool kids will be over here.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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I figure that there has to be a middle ground between the wide open, anything can be discussed attitude as in the Happy Hour thread and the "don't even mention the books" attitude that some have in the episode threads. It can even be a place to discuss other opinions such as the Westeros.org disappointment with the opening of the last episode not being as well done as the end of the previous one.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #4
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I wonder how many threads there have to be before nobody cares any more..?
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
I wonder how many threads there have to be before nobody cares any more..?
Someone had suggested in the episode thread that the "book readers" should open their own thread for each episode. That would really make for a messy situation. Hopefully a single season thread will not add too much clutter. Personally I expect to read the episode threads because it is fun to see the speculation but may not post much.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #6
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Quite a bit of action on several fronts in episode 6. Looks like Amory Lorch had a more merciful death than in the book.

Of the non-book scenes, I love the interaction between Arya and Tywin. The scene with Littlefinger also was quite tense.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:40 AM   #7
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Wow, I might have to reread although I just read them all during last season. I do not remember anyone stealing the dragons.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:47 AM   #8
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It's starting to feel like a different story than the books.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:22 AM   #9
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If they introduce Harry Potter. IM OUT!

DISLIKED that they stole the dragons. Changes the whole storyline. Relating to the books.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:26 AM   #10
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Regarding Talisa -

Spoiler:

I can't make up my mind if I think she's Jeyne or not. Clearly she has the same role - to make Robb forget his promise to marry a Frey. I don't really understand why she would be undercover, though, and why that's been changed from the books.

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Old 05-07-2012, 07:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehma View Post
Regarding Talisa -

Spoiler:

I can't make up my mind if I think she's Jeyne or not. Clearly she has the same role - to make Robb forget his promise to marry a Frey. I don't really understand why she would be undercover, though, and why that's been changed from the books.
I had read

Spoiler:
that Jeyne is not being written in, that Talisa will in fact replace her as the woman Robb weds instead of a Frey.

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Old 05-07-2012, 08:13 AM   #12
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I'm just at the point in book two that this episode covers, I can't understand why they changed so much. Arya wasn't Tywin's cupbearer and losing the dragons is weird.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarisa View Post
If they introduce Harry Potter. IM OUT!

DISLIKED that they stole the dragons. Changes the whole storyline. Relating to the books.
Agreed.

Also did not like changing Roderick Cassels death. That was our intro to Ramsey.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunnick View Post
I had read

Spoiler:
that Jeyne is not being written in, that Talisa will in fact replace her as the woman Robb weds instead of a Frey.
That makes sense. In the books,
Spoiler:
the whole Jeyne thing happens off-screen, which would make for pretty bad television considering how important their marriage is to Robb's fate. Creating a substitute lover that he can meet without having to leave the camp (and thus add extra scenes to a show that is already highly compressed) is a logical choice.


Spoilered because I can't remember how much of this happens in the second and in the third book.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion

Agreed.

Also did not like changing Roderick Cassels death. That was our intro to Ramsey.
At least Roose mentioned his bastard so it looks like he will be cast. There has been speculation that he might not be included in the show.

I'm still not sure whether the stealing the dragons is good or bad. Depends on how it is resolved.

With all the changes from the book in this episode I'm wondering now when the episode thread will bring out the spoiler police.

Spoiler:
I also wonder when Ygritte will utter her catchphrase.

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Old 05-07-2012, 10:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickvz View Post
Spoiler:
I also wonder when Ygritte will utter her catchphrase.
I don't know why that is spoiled, but I must say I have been reading in the other episode thread for this week's show, and I have been tempted so many times to quote people and say that very thing.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:00 AM   #17
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I think the dragons subplot is a big change, but I'm guessing they use that as a way
Spoiler:
to get Dany to the House of the Undying that makes better sense.

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickvz View Post
At least Roose mentioned his bastard so it looks like he will be cast. There has been speculation that he might not be included in the show.
Spoiler:
He has to be so Theon can finally get what's coming to him!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickvz View Post
Spoiler:
I also wonder when Ygritte will utter her catchphrase.
Spoiler:
I was waiting for it on each sentence she spoke!

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTigerFan View Post
I'm just at the point in book two that this episode covers, I can't understand why they changed so much. Arya wasn't Tywin's cupbearer and losing the dragons is weird.
I love the Arya/Tywin scenes, though. Losing the dragons is very weird to me as well, but

Spoiler:
this might be the most interesting thing that happens with them for several seasons!

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:56 AM   #20
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The reaction on the "A Song of Ice and Fire" forum has been interesting. There is almost an even split between those that thought it was the best episode of the season and those that hated it.

Even those that hated it generally thought that the first ten minutes was outstanding. The beheading was brutal, especially with Theon kicking the head off at the end.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #21
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I'm honestly shocked none of you are talking about the reeds. Yea I know they smushed them into Osha (which i greatly disliked). I guess finding 2 kids for the roles was hard?
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarisa View Post
I'm honestly shocked none of you are talking about the reeds. Yea I know they smushed them into Osha (which i greatly disliked). I guess finding 2 kids for the roles was hard?
They were discussed briefly in the books thread in Happy Hour. I'm hoping they'll be introduced next season.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billypritchard View Post
I think the dragons subplot is a big change, but I'm guessing they use that as a way
Spoiler:
to get Dany to the House of the Undying that makes better sense.
I agree that that's what they're using the stealing of the dragons for, as a plot point. It doesn't seem necessary to me however.

Another note, maybe it's just my imagination from when I read the book, but does anyone else think that the dragons should be much bigger now, not large, but maybe the size of a medium dog?

Spoiler:
I don't see how Drogon is going to burn down the House of the Undying when he's smaller than a cat and can barely muster any dragon breath!

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Old 05-07-2012, 05:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by audioscience View Post
I agree that that's what they're using the stealing of the dragons for, as a plot point. It doesn't seem necessary to me however.

Another note, maybe it's just my imagination from when I read the book, but does anyone else think that the dragons should be much bigger now, not large, but maybe the size of a medium dog?

Spoiler:
I don't see how Drogon is going to burn down the House of the Undying when he's smaller than a cat and can barely muster any dragon breath!
Spoiler:
If I recall, he attacks the heart thing in the middle of the house of the Undying, and that action is what brings the house down.

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Old 05-07-2012, 05:11 PM   #25
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Also, annoyingly I think they are using the smaller size of the dragons as a way to keep down CGI production costs; once they are bigger they won't be able to hide them in cages all the time.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarisa View Post
I'm honestly shocked none of you are talking about the reeds. Yea I know they smushed them into Osha (which i greatly disliked). I guess finding 2 kids for the roles was hard?
I'm pretty disappointed they have not cast them. I am however open to the possibility that they could meet the Reeds on the road, after they leave Winterfell.

Spoiler:
I'm not sure how else they'll split up with Rickon and leave him out of the story, unless they choose not too do that. But up to this point he's been a non-character. He's just sort of there.

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:31 PM   #27
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So, the riot in the streets. I take it that Lolys (sp?) and her mother are just written out of the show entirely? They were never very important, I suppose, but I remember that during the street riot she was raped by 50 men.

Was that the high septon that was pulled apart (literally) by the mob?
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:01 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JETarpon
So, the riot in the streets. I take it that Lolys (sp?) and her mother are just written out of the show entirely? They were never very important, I suppose, but I remember that during the street riot she was raped by 50 men.
Yes, they appear to have been omitted from the adaptation. For a bit it looked like Sansa was going to take on the Lollys treatment but glad they had the Hound show up.

Quote:
Was that the high septon that was pulled apart (literally) by the mob?
I thought it was and that would follow the books.

Last edited by Rickvz : 05-09-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:17 PM   #29
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the septon.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:38 PM   #30
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I posted this in the S2 episode 6 thread, reposting here where it makes more sense:
-------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarisa View Post
Speaking for someone thats read to midway book 4. I'm really disliking the dirrection the show is heading. YES I know that TV shows/Movies are never like the book. But they generaly keep things pretty much on point when they translate them. This episode (without having to spoilerize anything) is starting to go down a path that concerns me. I watched all of season one prior to reading the books. I read after season one was complete. The book/season was almost 1 for 1. I know the crew has stated they won't be following season 2 : book 2 ratio. Which is fine....but for them to change such major points of the book concerns me. Yes I know...the book is the book...and the show is ...the show.
You keep saying "you know"... But I'm not sure you truly understand what it involved in an adaptation. (Translation is not a proper term) Adaptations range from very faithful to details, to faithful to themes, and just loosely based. By ANY reasonable metric, GOT has been one of the most faithfully adapted multi-novel books.

Quote:
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But it's suppose to be a translated version of the book, not a different story. Yes that can be adapted to many different things.
A different story??? This kind of exaggeration frankly enrages me. The change of minor character fates, and minor events in the scope of the larger story does NOT(!!!) make it a "different story".

Quote:
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It just concerns me that they are changing it up just to "Hollywood" things up. IE: The dragons being taken just to create a "OH NO" at the end of the episode is prime example of what bothers me. I hope they don't continue this trend.
Most fans agree that the Dany story in book 2 is the weakest part of book 2. Besides the house of the undying, nothing of significance occurs in Qarth. As part of the adaptation they have opted to externalize her struggles into a more explicit character building journey. And there is no reason why the end-game of her Qarth journey won't be the same as the book - so it will likely have no long term impact. She'll recover her dragons and learn something from that experience. Also, the lack of threat of someone trying to take her dragons in the book at that point in the story could be argue to be a plot hole.
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