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Old 04-30-2012, 02:47 PM   #61
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I don't understand how those that have read the books aren't disappointed watching the show, knowing everything that's coming. If I had known that Renly was bout to bite it and how he would die, I think it would have taken all the awesome impact of it for me. Maybe it's just me.
It's about the execution (no pun intended). I knew Ned Stark was going to die, before the first episode aired last season. Yet the story was well told, and interesting, and yes, I didn't have to stand up and shout to the heavens when I saw it, because I'd already done that years before when I read it, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

I knew that Frodo was going to make it to Mordor, too. Didn't stop me from enjoying the movies.

(Plus, it's kind of fun to see the little hints and know what they portend. To understand Brans dream, for instance, or to know what Theon is going to do, and to see how the show creators portray that and foreshadow it).
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:49 PM   #62
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As King Robert said, "I'm half a kingdom in debt..." but Tyrion is talking Lannister money, right?

BTW, how did the Lannisters make all of that money?
Yes, I'm fairly certain the show indicated at one point they they were borrowing from the lannisters. And I don't believe the show has explained the lannisters wealth, but some of the book readers have explained in previous threads that the lands owned by the lannisters are very mineral rich.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:55 PM   #63
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Me too, which is why I'm glad I read the books first...having the show spoil the books would totally ruin it for me!
I thought of that angle too. But, IMO, some things, including Renley's death and that of Ned Stark (though that one got spoiled for me anyway ), have more impact on the TV (if done right, which they were).
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:56 PM   #64
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If I had known that Renly was bout to bite it and how he would die, I think it would have taken all the awesome impact of it for me. Maybe it's just me.
Well, as I said, I actually had Renly's death spoiled for me earlier in the week. And while it obviously took away the shock since I knew it was coming, I still did say "OMG" and rewind it to watch it again a few times.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:59 PM   #65
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Well, as I said, I actually had Renly's death spoiled for me earlier in the week. And while it obviously took away the shock since I knew it was coming, I still did say "OMG" and rewind it to watch it again a few times.
Yeah, I guess I'm not so much a spoiler nazi as much as a huge event spoiler nazi. I don't mind knowing small details but things like this, Ned and poor Lady being killed hit me much harder than had I known. That's just me, many shows I read spoiler threads on and like to know what's coming up. I'm not sure why some I do and some I don't.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:07 PM   #66
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I guess for me it doesn't bother me much knowing it's coming up, because I already had the effect from reading the book. And I have to admit, I've had times that I've sat there swearing at the book after things happened .

Hmm, pondered putting this in without spoilering it, but there's probably people that would get annoyed. There's no specific spoiler information in what's below, more of a generic comment on the topic of death in this show.

Spoiler:

I do think for those that have played the book you could play a great drinking game. Every time someone comes on screen that is going to die, you take a drink. Not sure anyone would ever make it through an episode though .

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Old 04-30-2012, 03:10 PM   #67
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I thought of that angle too. But, IMO, some things, including Renly's death and that of Ned Stark (though that one got spoiled for me anyway ), have more impact on the TV (if done right, which they were).
I think events like that have a LOT more impact in the books, because Martin spends a LOT more time building up to them.

E.g., Ned in the TV show was a lot more of a cypher. In the books, he's a much more fully-realized character, and his death had (I think) a lot more impact than it would have if all I knew about him was what the TV show gave us.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:13 PM   #68
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I think events like that have a LOT more impact in the books, because Martin spends a LOT more time building up to them.

E.g., Ned in the TV show was a lot more of a cypher. In the books, he's a much more fully-realized character, and his death had (I think) a lot more impact than it would have if all I knew about him was what the TV show gave us.
Yeah, I'll have to agree with Rob's comments too. The pay-off in the books is awfully good because there's more invested in the characters up to that point. In the series, if Ned hadn't been played by "arguably" the biggest name in the acting cast, I don't know that it would have had quite the effect that it did on people.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #69
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Yeah, I'll have to agree with Rob's comments too. The pay-off in the books is awfully good because there's more invested in the characters up to that point. In the series, if Ned hadn't been played by "arguably" the biggest name in the acting cast, I don't know that it would have had quite the effect that it did on people.
Well I dunno about it having more or less but I can say for me, not knowing he was the biggest name in the acting cast, I was floored when they killed him. I mean literally draw dropped and hands to face like a drooling idiot, floored. Even the movies Bean has been in that I've seen he didn't make a big enough impact that I remembered his face when I started this show. Honestly the only person I did recognize was Dinklage.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:33 PM   #70
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I'm going to be bummed when/if Bran's dream comes true and Theon takes winterfell. The Starks are too righteous for their own good.

The treatment of this series makes me sad for the mess that was the Sword of Truth series.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #71
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I don't understand how those that have read the books aren't disappointed watching the show, knowing everything that's coming. If I had known that Renly was bout to bite it and how he would die, I think it would have taken all the awesome impact of it for me. Maybe it's just me.
I looked forward to that scene all week after seeing the end of the previous episode. I'm not sure which is more fun, watching the realization of the various big events or reading the speculation by users here knowing what is likely. Last year I suspected the ending scene would be the birth of the dragons and still found the scene riveting. I'm really looking forward to what I suspect will happen in the final episode of this season.

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For me, it was the show that caused me to read the 1st book. I was confused by all the characters and thought reading the book would help. My plan was to only read up to point we were at in the show.

But once I got started I couldn't stop.
Same here. After a few episodes I picked up the first book and read through it quickly. Then couldn't stop once I started.

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It's about the execution (no pun intended). I knew Ned Stark was going to die, before the first episode aired last season. Yet the story was well told, and interesting, and yes, I didn't have to stand up and shout to the heavens when I saw it, because I'd already done that years before when I read it, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

I knew that Frodo was going to make it to Mordor, too. Didn't stop me from enjoying the movies.

(Plus, it's kind of fun to see the little hints and know what they portend. To understand Brans dream, for instance, or to know what Theon is going to do, and to see how the show creators portray that and foreshadow it).
One recap I read of last week's episode stated an opinion that the strongest scenes were those that followed the books pretty closely and the weaker scenes (certainly a relative term) were those that were not from the books or that directly changed something from the books. I would agree.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #72
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If Margery Tyrell (Mrs. Renly Bartheron) is keen on becoming Queen I wonder if she is going back to Kings Landing with Baelish to you know...get up on Joffrey.

This would not be good news for Sansa.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #73
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If Margery Tyrell (Mrs. Renly Bartheron) is keen on becoming Queen I wonder if she is going back to Kings Landing with Baelish to you know...get up on Joffrey.

This would not be good news for Sansa.
Given Joffrey's...proclivities, that would be EXCELLENT news for Sansa!
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:56 PM   #74
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Given Joffrey's...proclivities, that would be EXCELLENT news for Sansa!
Well sure but she would have to sneak out of King's Landing. Not sure how easy that is for her.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:27 PM   #75
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Well sure but she would have to sneak out of King's Landing. Not sure how easy that is for her.
Gotta be easier than being Joffrey's legal sex-slave! Or at least have a much higher chance of survival...
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:05 PM   #76
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We know his son Jorah fled from Westeros rather than receive the Stark capital punishment for selling slaves and that he was disowned by his father Jeor. We also know he has received a king's pardon for notifying the court at King's Landing that Daenerys was pregnant.

But why is Jeor Mormont Lord Commander of the Night Watch? We are often told that anyone banished to wall is sent when they have no other choices or as punishment. By taking the vows of the Night Watch, they give up all family and possessions.

Besides the sword that he gave to Jon Snow, what does Jeor have to NOT give to Jorah? How can you disown someone when you own nothing?

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I'm going to wait on reading the series. I can enjoy a book (The Godfather and Jurassic Park come to mind) after watching the movie. I don't think I can do the opposite.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:06 PM   #77
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If Margery Tyrell (Mrs. Renly Bartheron) is keen on becoming Queen I wonder if she is going back to Kings Landing with Baelish to you know...get up on Joffrey.

This would not be good news for Sansa.
I really think Littlefinger is the one who will go for her. He does want to rule, eventually/somehow, and she has the money and the ambition.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:41 PM   #78
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You don't have to be a thief to join. You can be the younger brother who will inherit nothing (Ned's brother, for example), or the bastard son (Jon Snow), or just too poor to have any prospects.
Yeah, back in the good old days it was a noble profession. Now, you pretty much have to be a loser to join (or be conscripted). But they'll take all kinds of losers!
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:17 PM   #79
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I don't understand how those that have read the books aren't disappointed watching the show, knowing everything that's coming. If I had known that Renly was bout to bite it and how he would die, I think it would have taken all the awesome impact of it for me. Maybe it's just me.
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I looked forward to that scene all week after seeing the end of the previous episode. I'm not sure which is more fun, watching the realization of the various big events or reading the speculation by users here knowing what is likely. Last year I suspected the ending scene would be the birth of the dragons and still found the scene riveting. I'm really looking forward to what I suspect will happen in the final episode of this season.
There are definite pluses and minuses to both approaches. I read the books before the show was announced, so didn't have a choice - but "disappointed" is a word that's never crossed my mind when watching this show. Honestly I can't imagine what it's like for someone who hasn't read the books to watch it. There are so many little details that it would be probably impossible to pick up on if you weren't familiar with the source material. Plus, the foreshadowing just makes me squee like a little girl.

The best approach might be to watch a season, read the book, then watch the season again. The problem with that, as others have mentioned, is that it's tough to finish one book without immediately picking up the next one!
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #80
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The best approach might be to watch a season, read the book, then watch the season again. The problem with that, as others have mentioned, is that it's tough to finish one book without immediately picking up the next one!
I believe that as of this season there is no longer a 1 book per season correlation
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:19 PM   #81
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Not entirely.

Spoiler:
"steel of his gorget parted like cheesecloth beneath the shadow of a blade that was not there. he had time to make a small thick gasp before the blood came gushing out of his throat". - Clash of Kings Page 502

That description make it sound like a downward hacking kind of strike at the neck and shoulder. Not the being run through by a sword attack we saw in the episode.
Congrats, you win the "inconsequential nitpick of the day" prize.
Spoiler:
Ooooh - knifed through the chest instead of throat. Are you for real?

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:14 AM   #82
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Wow, that was pretty good. I had accidentally learned earlier this week that Renley died in the books, so I knew it was coming, and I put 2 + 2 together and figured it would be the smoke monster, but that was way better than I expected. However, my understanding was that in the book Renley died in a differenent way. Could someone please mention (in spoilers) 1) how Renley dies in the book, and 2) what was the purpose of the smoke monster in the book?
It didn't happen a "different way", really, though the smoke monster is more a living shadow in the book.

The difference was that in the book, Renly's death is not preceded by Davos taking Melisandre in the boat to give birth to the shadow.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:54 AM   #83
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Well, GRRM screwed up originally, and now had a chance to fix the timeline.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #84
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I believe that as of this season there is no longer a 1 book per season correlation
I doubt that. I think this season will end right on target for book two. Season three will be similar (but hopefully will have more episodes). And after that they'll start combining books because 4 and 5 take place at the same time for the most part. Unless they do the same thing and divvy up the story lines on a per season basis.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:37 AM   #85
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Well, GRRM screwed up originally, and now had a chance to fix the timeline.
How so?
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I doubt that. I think this season will end right on target for book two. Season three will be similar (but hopefully will have more episodes). And after that they'll start combining books because 4 and 5 take place at the same time for the most part. Unless they do the same thing and divvy up the story lines on a per season basis.
You're right about this season, but apparently the one-to-one ratio will end here. The third book is just too much for one season.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:38 AM   #86
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Well, GRRM screwed up originally, and now had a chance to fix the timeline.
How so? In the book, Renly's death was more shocking, since you didn't know the living shadow existed.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:39 AM   #87
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It didn't happen a "different way", really, though the smoke monster is more a living shadow in the book.

The difference was that in the book, Renly's death is not preceded by Davos taking Melisandre in the boat to give birth to the shadow.
That's something I didn't remember (the birth scene after Renly's death), but it makes sense since
Spoiler:
in the book they had to get inside the walls of Storms End to take care of the castellan.


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Old 05-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #88
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How so?

You're right about this season, but apparently the one-to-one ratio will end here. The third book is just too much for one season.
Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why I was just hoping for more episodes in season 3. They could probably split book 3 into two seasons.

Book 3 is my favorite. It's so kick-ass! I can't wait for it actually. Y'all non-book readers need to get excited about it. I'm sure it'll be awesome!
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #89
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I was disappointed that Dany didn't dress in the style of the Qartheen women as described in the book.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:17 AM   #90
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Book talk doesn't belong in the clear in this thread.
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