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Old 10-10-2013, 12:26 PM   #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
Every single show was down. Network TV is in trouble.
Has cable TV channels picked up the slack (I guess that's really hard to tell looking at the plethora of them), or are they going to online sources?
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #1052
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The new crop of shows definitely isn't helping. After just a couple of weeks 15 out of 23 new shows are already below a 2.0. Here's the latest ratings for each of the new network shows.

Quote:
Back in the Game 1.7
Betrayal 1.1
Blacklist 3.1
Brooklyn 9-9 1.5
Crazy Ones 2.9
Dads 1.3
Goldbergs 2.0
Hostages 1.2
Ironside 1.1
Lucky 7 0.7
Marvel Agents of SHIELD 2.8
Michal J Fox Show 1.9
Millers 3.3
Million Second Quiz 1.4
Mom 2.1
Originals 0.9
Sean Saves the World 1.6
Sleepy Hollow 2.8
Super Fun Night 2.5
Tomorrow People 0.8
Trophy Wife 1.4
We are Men 1.8
Welcome to the Family 1.2

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Old 10-11-2013, 10:56 AM   #1053
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Overnight ratings for Thursday, October 10, 2013:

Code:
Time    Net     Show                        18-49           Viewers 
8:00PM  CBS     The Big Bang Theory         4.9   18       17.19
        FOX     The X Factor (8-9PM)        1.9   6         6.29
        ABC     OUAT in Wonderland -P       1.7   5         5.74
        NBC     Parks and Recreation        1.2   4         3.25
        CW      The Vampire Diaries         1.1   3         2.49
        
8:30PM  CBS     The Millers                 3.1   9        11.91
        NBC     Welcome to the Family       0.8   2         2.50
                    
9:00PM  ABC     Grey's Anatomy              2.8   8         8.72
        FOX     Glee                        2.8   8         7.40
        CBS     The Crazy Ones              2.4   7         9.92
        NBC     Sean Saves the World        1.0   3         3.26
        CW      The Originals -R            0.8   2         1.92
                    
9:30PM  CBS     Two and a Half Men          2.3   6         9.03
        NBC     The Michael J Fox Show      1.2   3         3.84
        
10:00PM ABC     Scandal                     3.1   9         9.00
        CBS     Elementary                  1.9   6         8.94
        NBC     Parenthood                  1.2   3         3.75
Comments from TVbytheNumbers:

Last night’s Thursday Night Football game (Giants/Bears) was simulcast on the The CW affiliate in New York. As a result, The CW numbers may be inflated and subject to more than typical adjustments in the finals.

CBS was number 1 in adults 18-49 and with Total Viewers.

On CBS, The Big Bang Theory earned a 4.9, down three tenths from last week's 5.2 adults 18-49 rating. The Millers garnered a 3.1, down two tenths from last week's 3.3 adults 18-49 rating. The Crazy Ones earned a 2.4, down half a ratings point from last week's 2.9 adults 18-49 rating. Two and a Half Men hit a new series low with a 2.3, down a tenth from last week's series low 2.4. Elementary earned a 1.9, down a tenth from last week's 2.0 adults 18-49 rating.

On ABC, the premiere of Once Upon A Time in Wonderland earned a 1.7 adults 18-49 rating, down from the 2.2 that Last Resort earned in the slot last fall, and the lowest-rated ABC Thursday fall premiere since 2010’s My Generation. Your predictions were too optimistic. Grey's Anatomy earned a 2.8, down three tenths from last week's 3.1 adults 18-49 rating. Scandal scored a 3.1, down half a ratings point from last week's 3.6 adults 18-49 rating.

On FOX, The X Factor earned a 1.9, down a tenth from last week's 2.0 adults 18-49 rating. The Cory Monteith tribute episode of Glee garnered a 2.8, soaring over last week's 1.6 adults 18-49 rating, and the show's highest rating since September 20, 2012.

On NBC, Parks & Recreation matched last week's 1.2. Welcome to the Family scored an anemic 0.8, down three tenths from last week's dismal 1.1 adults 18-49 rating . Sean Saves the World garnered a 1.0, down four tenths from last week's 1.4 adults 18-49 rating. The Michael J Fox Show notched a 1.2, down half a ratings point from last week's 1.7 adults 18-49 rating. Parenthood garnered a x from last week's series low 1.5 adults 18-49 rating .

On the CW, The Vampire Diaries scored a 1.1, down a tenth from last week's 1.2 adults 18-49 rating.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:03 AM   #1054
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* The OUaT spinoff had less than 6 million viewers. And a 1.7 in the demo. Can't portend well.

* NBC's Thursday night series have to be a huge disappointment to them; no show gets even 4 million eyeballs, and the demos are around 1 or less (0.8 for WttF!).

* While both The Millers and The Crazy Ones had slight drops, the overall numbers are very decent. In particular, The Millers, panned by every critic, has almost 12 million viewers.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:08 AM   #1055
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Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
* The OUaT spinoff had less than 6 million viewers. And a 1.7 in the demo. Can't portend well.
There were stupid mistakes on top of stupid mistakes here.

The original plan was to divide OUaT in half, and during the mid-season hiatus, show OUaTiW in the same time slot. Instead, they decided to show them both at the same time. Mistake 1.

Mistake 2, slot it against BBT and X-Factor. BBT is a ratings monster, and X Factor still has a decent draw, even if it isn't a behemoth like American Idol used to be.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:12 AM   #1056
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NBC must be trying to figure out a way to get the Voice on Thursdays.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:42 AM   #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
* The OUaT spinoff had less than 6 million viewers. And a 1.7 in the demo. Can't portend well.

* NBC's Thursday night series have to be a huge disappointment to them; no show gets even 4 million eyeballs, and the demos are around 1 or less (0.8 for WttF!).

* While both The Millers and The Crazy Ones had slight drops, the overall numbers are very decent. In particular, The Millers, panned by every critic, has almost 12 million viewers.
Consider that the Millers follow TBBT and there's practically NO competition against it for people to switch to. Pretty predictable if you ask me.

I wonder if the fact that the number 1 and number 3 markets had a team in the NFL game skews the ratings a bit.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:44 AM   #1058
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Originally Posted by LoadStar View Post
There were stupid mistakes on top of stupid mistakes here.

The original plan was to divide OUaT in half, and during the mid-season hiatus, show OUaTiW in the same time slot. Instead, they decided to show them both at the same time. Mistake 1.

Mistake 2, slot it against BBT and X-Factor. BBT is a ratings monster, and X Factor still has a decent draw, even if it isn't a behemoth like American Idol used to be.
I think it would have been smarter to show the original Once... during the fall season and the other during the spring season. I find that the first series is a bit too drawn out, so if they had 2 short 13 episode seasons for each, it would have been perfect.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:34 PM   #1059
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Those 9 pm numbers are skewed by the Glee tribute to Cory Monteith, I'm sure. That's a 1.2 jump in the key demo, likely on a one-time only basis, with those numbers probably going back to Grey's, Crazy Ones, etc. going forward.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:59 PM   #1060
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I wonder if the fact that the number 1 and number 3 markets had a team in the NFL game skews the ratings a bit.
I'm guessing that it had a pretty substantial impact in those markets. It was a close game that wasn't decided until Eli's final interception late in the 4th quarter.

I wonder how long it's been since NBC had such a bad Thursday in October. The last few years they could still count on the Office to pull some numbers but at this point they don't have a single program that's a draw on Thursdays. Such a far cry from where they were when they absolutely dominated Thursdays.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadStar View Post
There were stupid mistakes on top of stupid mistakes here.

The original plan was to divide OUaT in half, and during the mid-season hiatus, show OUaTiW in the same time slot. Instead, they decided to show them both at the same time. Mistake 1.

Mistake 2, slot it against BBT and X-Factor. BBT is a ratings monster, and X Factor still has a decent draw, even if it isn't a behemoth like American Idol used to be.
When was the last time ABC had a successful show in that slot on Thursdays? I'm thinking Mork and Mindy but something had to have been successful after that.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #1061
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I'm guessing that it had a pretty substantial impact in those markets. It was a close game that wasn't decided until Eli's final interception late in the 4th quarter.

I wonder how long it's been since NBC had such a bad Thursday in October. The last few years they could still count on the Office to pull some numbers but at this point they don't have a single program that's a draw on Thursdays. Such a far cry from where they were when they absolutely dominated Thursdays.
I'd be willing to bet that this was the worst in-season Thursday in NBC's history. And I suspect it's going to continue trending down for the rest of the fall until they can put something else in there mid-season.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:23 PM   #1062
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When was the last time ABC had a successful show in that slot on Thursdays? I'm thinking Mork and Mindy but something had to have been successful after that.
I think the last show they had in that slot that is considered successful was Ugly Betty which ran for 5 seasons and ended in 2010. Everything since has been a failure.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:11 PM   #1063
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The 18-49 demo is what is shown on the ratings because overall it's the most attractive audience to reach but ad buyers are usually looking at much more detailed demographics that don't make sense to show in overnights. Male/female, smaller age buckets, income, geographical location etc. are all taken into account when setting ad rates. You may have two shows that both get a 3.0 rating but one can charge more than the other based on the underlying demos. The 18-49 demo is what they've chosen as the base of comparison though because it has the best correlation to ad rates.
This. We have gotten to this simplified 18-49 demo and the actual ad buying process is much more complex than that. Two shows with the exact same 18-49 ratings are not necessarily going to be sold for the same amount. Sub-demos, day of the week and a ton of other factors, including 50 plus viewers influence what a show actually bills.

Someone who advertises a product that is appealing to a larger audience and can sell to 50+ love to look at shows with large overall audiences with smaller prime demo numbers because they are cheaper. So a show with 3.0 demo and 20 million viewers might earn more than a show with a 3.0 demo and 7.9 million viewers. Yet a show with a 2.7 demo and 6.2 million viewers but has 80% women 25-40 might earn more than both because of advertisers fighting to hit that specific market.

The 18-49 demo numbers are certainly a good rule of thumb when we look at if shows will get canceled or not but there is so much more. With The Big Bang Theory being the highest rated scripted show on the networks by a huge margin, someone who wants to make a single big splash might pay a premium for placement.

Sports are not only juggernauts because they continue to deliver huge ratings while everything else dwindles. They deliver a more specific audience. Some advertisers may target males 25-54 as their primary demo. Sunday night football is a good choice because a high percentage of viewers hit that demo. On the other hand Scandal might not have anywhere near the same percentage of 25-54 male viewers as Sunday Night Football.

Go outside of the networks, I can't remember the last new South Park episode I saw that was not full of video game ads. Video Game companies are not targeting males and females 18-49.

Every business has its own criteria it is targeting and then it will shop for the best value to get that audience or try to saturate it. Plus you have a lot of brand advertising on the networks that does not try to directly sell anything.

The bottom line on why the 18-49 is the tent pole though is because that is the point on the graph where the most revenue is achieved based on marketplace factors. Take all these different issues into consideration and 18-49 will still be closest to the price. Lots of factors can influence the price but the base is set by the advertising dollars competing for that cross section. It does not mean every advertiser is seeking that demo, it just means when you overlay all their needs the 18-49 mf demo is where it falls out.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:28 PM   #1064
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Sports are not only juggernauts because they continue to deliver huge ratings while everything else dwindles. They deliver a more specific audience. Some advertisers may target males 25-54 as their primary demo. Sunday night football is a good choice because a high percentage of viewers hit that demo. On the other hand Scandal might not have anywhere near the same percentage of 25-54 male viewers as Sunday Night Football.
There's another reason adding to the juggernautiness of sports programming. They are viewed as more DVR proof than standard programming. While some might watch recorded versions, a vast majority of people will watch it live. So you get a larger audience that is much more likely to watch your commercials.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:45 AM   #1065
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I'd be willing to bet that this was the worst in-season Thursday in NBC's history. And I suspect it's going to continue trending down for the rest of the fall until they can put something else in there mid-season.
Worse than the Jay Leno season?
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:54 AM   #1066
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Worse than the Jay Leno season?
I'm almost positive. Look back at the ratings for the Jay Leno Show and NBC would probably happily take those ratings today. At the time, they were talking about how they could still make money on the show even if it only averaged a 1.5. And I think it generally stayed above that. 1.2 was NBC's best rating on Thursday night. E

Edit: Here is an article discussing the ratings of The Jay Leno Show after it had been on for a couple months.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/200...no-show/32641/

It was averaging about a 1.9 with about 6.5 million viewers. Nothing on NBC Thursday had more that 4 million viewers.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:04 AM   #1067
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I'd be willing to bet that this was the worst in-season Thursday in NBC's history. And I suspect it's going to continue trending down for the rest of the fall until they can put something else in there mid-season.
It actually tied their all time low for original programming. They also scored a 1.1 prime time rating on May 17, 2012 when they aired three Community episodes, 30 Rock and Awake. NBC finished 7th on Thursday night behind the other three broadcast networks, the NFL Network, Univision and TBS.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:38 AM   #1068
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It actually tied their all time low for original programming. They also scored a 1.1 prime time rating on May 17, 2012 when they aired three Community episodes, 30 Rock and Awake. NBC finished 7th on Thursday night behind the other three broadcast networks, the NFL Network, Univision and TBS.
I actually liked Awake.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #1069
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This. We have gotten to this simplified 18-49 demo and the actual ad buying process is much more complex than that. Two shows with the exact same 18-49 ratings are not necessarily going to be sold for the same amount. Sub-demos, day of the week and a ton of other factors, including 50 plus viewers influence what a show actually bills.

Someone who advertises a product that is appealing to a larger audience and can sell to 50+ love to look at shows with large overall audiences with smaller prime demo numbers because they are cheaper. So a show with 3.0 demo and 20 million viewers might earn more than a show with a 3.0 demo and 7.9 million viewers. Yet a show with a 2.7 demo and 6.2 million viewers but has 80% women 25-40 might earn more than both because of advertisers fighting to hit that specific market.

The 18-49 demo numbers are certainly a good rule of thumb when we look at if shows will get canceled or not but there is so much more. With The Big Bang Theory being the highest rated scripted show on the networks by a huge margin, someone who wants to make a single big splash might pay a premium for placement.

Sports are not only juggernauts because they continue to deliver huge ratings while everything else dwindles. They deliver a more specific audience. Some advertisers may target males 25-54 as their primary demo. Sunday night football is a good choice because a high percentage of viewers hit that demo. On the other hand Scandal might not have anywhere near the same percentage of 25-54 male viewers as Sunday Night Football.

Go outside of the networks, I can't remember the last new South Park episode I saw that was not full of video game ads. Video Game companies are not targeting males and females 18-49.

Every business has its own criteria it is targeting and then it will shop for the best value to get that audience or try to saturate it. Plus you have a lot of brand advertising on the networks that does not try to directly sell anything.

The bottom line on why the 18-49 is the tent pole though is because that is the point on the graph where the most revenue is achieved based on marketplace factors. Take all these different issues into consideration and 18-49 will still be closest to the price. Lots of factors can influence the price but the base is set by the advertising dollars competing for that cross section. It does not mean every advertiser is seeking that demo, it just means when you overlay all their needs the 18-49 mf demo is where it falls out.
Here's a pic that shows ad rates for this year. Strangely enough, Fox charges more for New Girl than CBS does for NCIS even though NCIS has a bigger audience and a bigger rating. It's all about those underlying demos.


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Old 10-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #1070
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Definitely not strange. It's been that way for a long time. Because it's not about the total number of peopel watching, whch CBS usually wins, but how many people are watching in the certain demographics. Which CBS does not usually win since they skew much older.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:15 AM   #1071
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Modern Family: $257k
Sunday Night Football: $570k

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:18 AM   #1072
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Is that the highest ad rate?
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #1073
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Is that the highest ad rate?
Sunday Night Football is the highest program. BBT is the highest scripted program.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #1074
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Is that the highest ad rate?
Yes. Highest scripted program is BBT, at $326k.

What's interesting is that outside of NFL and The Voice (and the show that follows The Voice), NBC doesn't have a single program that they can charge over $100k per 30 sec. spot for. That's pretty pathetic. Good thing The Voice and NFL takes up such a huge chunk of their schedule each week.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:03 PM   #1075
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Broadcast primetime ratings for Sunday, October 13, 2013:

Code:
Time  Net   Show                                18-49      Viewers (Millions)
7:00  FOX   NFL Football (Saints/Patriots)      8.0/25     23.13
      NBC   Football Night in America           1.9/6      5.67
      CBS   60 Minutes                          1.5/5      10.58
      ABC   America's Funniest Home Videos      1.1/3      5.15
                                                
7:30  FOX   NFL Football/The OT - Live          6.3/18     18.15
      NBC   Football Night in America           3.2/9      8.73
                                                
8:00  NBC   Football Night in America           5.8/15     15.36
      FOX   Baseball (Tigers/Redsox) 8-11P      2.4/6      8.26
      ABC   Once Upon A Time                    2.3/6      7.36
      CBS   The Amazing Race                    1.8/5      8.07
                                                
8:30  NBC   Sunday Night Football:              7.3/18     19.65
                                                
9:00  ABC   Revenge                             1.7/4      6.02
      CBS   The Good Wife                       1.2/3      8.36
                                                
10:00 CBS   The Mentalist                       1.3/3      9.35
      ABC   Betrayal                            0.9/2      3.00
Comments from TVbytheNumbers:

NOTE: Due to the nature of live programming the ratings for NBC & FOX (NFL Football & MLB Baseball) are approximate and subject to more than the typical adjustments in the final numbers.

NBC was number one among adults 18-49 and with total viewers.

On NBC Sunday Night Football, which featured a match-up between the Cowboys and the Redskins earned a preliminary 7.3 up 28 percent from last week's preliminary 5.7 adults 18-49 rating from 8:30-11PM.

On CBS, 60 Minutes scored a 1.5 adults 18-49 rating down 61 percent from last week’s football-delayed 3.8. The Amazing Race garnered a series low 1.8 down 25 percent from last week’s 2.4. The Good Wife notched a series low 1.2 down 25 percent from last week’s 1.6. The Mentalist earned a series low 1.3 down 13 percent from last week’s 1.5.

On FOX, NFL Football scored a preliminary 8.0 a ults 18-49 rating. Game 2 of the MLB Baseball ALCS Playoffs notched a preliminary 2.4 adults 18-49 rating, up 41 percent from Saturday's 1.7.

On ABC, the season premiere of America’s Funniest Home Videos earned a 1.1 adults 18-49 rating down 27 percent from a 1.5 for last season’s premiere on October 7 ,2012 and ranking as its lowest rated premiere ever. Once Upon A Time scored a 2.3 down 12 percent from last week's 2.6 adults 18-49 rating. Revenge garnered a 1.7 down 11 percent from last week's 1.9 adults 18-49 rating. Betrayal notched a series low 0.9 down 18 percent from last week's 1.1 adults 18-49 rating.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:06 PM   #1076
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Wow, surprised how low the ratings for The Amazing Race were. I wonder if that was just a factor of there being a football game and a baseball game being played at the same time, or if the ratings for this season will finally be so low they'll have to cancel the show.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #1077
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Wow, surprised how low the ratings for The Amazing Race were. I wonder if that was just a factor of there being a football game and a baseball game being played at the same time, or if the ratings for this season will finally be so low they'll have to cancel the show.
I think it just took everyone by surprise that it was on so early (that is to say, on time).
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #1078
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My takeaway from this is that for those of us like me who HATES how CBS schedules their Sunday nights during football season. Their Sunday night was abysmal without the NFL game runover helping the ratings. This folks is why CBS keeps things the way they do. I hate it, but it works for them.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:33 PM   #1079
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The Walking dead had an 8.2 cable rating in the dem with 16.1 million total viewers. That is an astronomical number for a network show let alone a cable show.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...-18-49/208857/

New York, NY – October 14, 2013 – AMC’s The Walking Dead returned last night for its fourth season, delivering the highest ratings of any episode in series history. The season four premiere was watched by 16.1 million total viewers and 10.4 million adults aged 18-49. Last night’s ratings confirm The Walking Dead continues to be the #1 show on all of television among the coveted 18-49 demographic. 2013/14 season to date, last night’s premiere ranks as the #1 telecast in adults 18-49, outperforming all programs including primetime NFL football. With time-shifted playback, last night’s premiere should exceed 20 million viewers.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:41 PM   #1080
Azlen
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 1,910
Here are the live+7 numbers for premiere week.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...n-prem/208745/

Network viewership doesn't look as bad when you factor in people who watch it later on in the week. Too bad the networks don't know how to get money on it beyond live +3.
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