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Old 04-30-2012, 08:51 AM   #61
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[quote=rifleman69;9068938]
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Originally Posted by Steveknj View Post
True in the 1970s -1990s. Not so true now. Younger demos just don't have the disposable money they once did./QUOTE]

Not true, it's just that tv viewing isn't the big thing to do in the evenings anymore. TiVo's have something to do with that, but apathy towards live tv (not including sports) is quite common in the younger market.
That's also true. But it's been said that one of the reasons networks go after the younger demos is that they have disposable income that they are more likely to spend on different things rather than the older demos that are set in their ways, don't have the disposable income and are less likely to move away from things that they've found tried and true. All I'm saying is that in this economy, all of that is less true. Younger demos are having more trouble making ends meet, and because of that, it might not be as willing to spend. But I do see the point in advertisers trying to persuade is more difficult than ever, so in order to get them, they have to spend more. My reasoning is it could be flawed logic, as they just aren't as interested in network TV as you pointed out, and perhaps that money is better off being spent on other mediums or on a niche network that caters more to them.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:23 AM   #62
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Parks and Rec is sucking.
Worry not. I would feel comfortable betting my life that it gets renewed.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:06 PM   #63
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Only because I *still* can't figure out how to c&p the other version...


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Old 04-30-2012, 12:07 PM   #64
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Once Upon a Time appears to be the rare show that wins both total viewers and the demos.

The Good Wife is the exact opposite. Second most # of viewers, average age... just this side of deceased.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #65
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Here is the full preliminary list for Sunday from TV By The Numbers:


Code:
Time	Net	Show				18-49 	18-49	Viewers
						Rating	Share	Live+SD (million)
7:00 PM	ABC	America’s Funniest Home Videos	1.4	5	6.66
	CBS	60 Minutes			1.2	4	9.88
	FOX	The Simpsons (R)		1.1	4	2.55
	NBC	Dateline NBC			0.8	3	3.38

7:30 PM	FOX	The Cleveland Show		1.5	5	3.11

8:00 PM	ABC	Once Upon A Time		2.9	8	9.07
	FOX	The Simpsons			2.3	7	5.00
	CBS	Amazing Race			2.2	6	8.42
	NBC	Harry’s Law			0.9	2	7.36

8:30 PM	FOX	Bob’s Burgers			1.9	5	3.94

9:00 PM	FOX	Family Guy			2.8	7	5.66
	ABC	Desperate Housewives		2.5	6	8.09
	CBS	The Good Wife (Season Finale)	1.7	4	9.83
	NBC	Celebrity Apprentice		1.7	4	5.67

9:30 PM	FOX	The Cleveland Show		1.9	5	4.04

10:00	NBC	Celebrity Apprentice		2.2	6	6.88
	ABC	GCB				1.9	5	5.66
	CBS	NYC 22				1.2	3	7.55
Astro (or anyone else), you can click Quote on my message and see how I coded the table. The trick is to Copy the table from TVbythenumbers and paste it into Word (or some other word processing program) and format it properly, then copy that and paste it here. By going to a word processing program as an intermediate step, you get the tabs that then ensure that the table is properly aligned here. And sometimes it requires a little trial and error (I paste it, it doesn't quite line up, and then I fix the Word version and then repaste it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:08 PM   #66
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That sounds like a lot of work, unfortunately.
But I, for one, appreciate y'all posting this stuff. I'm interested enough to read it here, but haven't ever really gone in search of the data. Thanks again, for sharing!!

I like how the one puts them in rank order, and the other puts them in timeslots... can you guys both post?

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Once Upon a Time appears to be the rare show that wins both total viewers and the demos.

The Good Wife is the exact opposite. Second most # of viewers, average age... just this side of deceased.
HA!!

Someone complained this weekend because I commented that he and my Mother watch all the same shows... I didn't call him out on his age, merely that he and she have very similar taste.
I should clarify, they're both far this side of the deceased line... but, also both love shows like The Good Wife.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #67
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That's also true. But it's been said that one of the reasons networks go after the younger demos is that they have disposable income that they are more likely to spend on different things rather than the older demos that are set in their ways, don't have the disposable income and are less likely to move away from things that they've found tried and true.
You can keep making that arguement but it doesn't make it true. From TVBTN:

Quote:
3. Why all this focus on 18-34 and 18-49 year olds! It's the people over 50 who have all the money. Why be ageist?

I know it is counter-intuitive for some people, but the focus on the younger age demographics isn't a function of spending power or ageism, it's a function of advertisers desire to reach younger viewers, and relative availability. It's much, much easier to reach a 60 year old than a 25 year old via television advertising because on average a higher percentage of 60 year olds watch a higher percentage of television than 25 year olds.

Relatively speaking, the 60 year old is easy to reach and the 25 year old far more scarce. The relative scarcity of younger viewers increases both the focus and advertising premiums paid for younger viewers.

Whether this is good, bad, right or wrong, I can't really say. I can say, at least for now, that's the way it is.

It's really not just about how old you are or how much money you have to spend. It's also about how easy it is to reach you. The easier it is to reach you, the less advertisers are willing to pay for you, the harder it is to reach you, the more they are willing to pay.

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Old 04-30-2012, 01:55 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
You can keep making that arguement but it doesn't make it true. From TVBTN:
THANK YOU, WT!! I've tried to make that same point a couple times in this thread already, but I guess steveknj has me on ignore or something, because he never seems to acknowledge it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:01 PM   #69
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This is a tangent -- but does this year's "May sweeps" end sooner than typical? I know it's not always all of May, or even always "approximately all of May".. but there was a season/series finale airdates article in the paper, and it sure seemed that a lot of big shows were having finales around May 15th.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:23 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
You can keep making that arguement but it doesn't make it true. From TVBTN:
No, I fully understand WHY they do it. And I understand why they THINK this is the right strategy. IMO, I think they have lost touch with reality. So they are going to spend millions of dollars in advertising to go after a demo that's probably not coming back? The younger demos are no longer caring about live TV, and the line distinguishing OTA network TV vs. Cable is gone. The ratings prove this out. Often, in the ratings numbers for the 18-49 demo is completely different than overall ratings.

From your post:

Quote:
Whether this is good, bad, right or wrong, I can't really say. I can say, at least for now, that's the way it is.

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Old 05-01-2012, 08:24 AM   #71
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THANK YOU, WT!! I've tried to make that same point a couple times in this thread already, but I guess steveknj has me on ignore or something, because he never seems to acknowledge it.
I'm not ignoring you. And I said I get it. It's just a flawed strategy.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack
This is a tangent -- but does this year's "May sweeps" end sooner than typical? I know it's not always all of May, or even always "approximately all of May".. but there was a season/series finale airdates article in the paper, and it sure seemed that a lot of big shows were having finales around May 15th.
You've asked about two different issues. First, May sweeps (all sweeps) begin on a Thursday and end on a Wednesday, four weeks later. So the beginning and ending dates of the sweeps period are dictated by the calendar. This year, May sweeps runs from April 26 -May 23.

The other issue is the finale dates of individual shows. I posted a thread with all the season finale dates last week. For example, CBS' latest finales this year are Thursday, May 17, with many sooner than that. That's a decision made by the network and nobody knows all the reasons, but we can guess at some of them. The last few days of the season have several big events (the two-night finales of Dancing With The Stars, The Voice, and American Idol), and CBS probably doesn't want to compete with them. Other shows have to end early to accommodate longer than usual finales or finales that air in abnormal timeslots, e.g. The Amazing Race has a two-hour finale this Sunday, and then Survivor has a three-hour finale the following Sunday.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:46 PM   #73
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Monday Night ratings. I will work on a c&p, using ddAZ's advice, but I'm swamped at work right now.


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Old 05-01-2012, 12:47 PM   #74
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Four of the top five shows are CBS' comedy block. And 5/7 encompass the entire CBS night. Amazing show of strength.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:49 PM   #75
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Monday Night ratings. I will work on a c&p, using ddAZ's advice, but I'm swamped at work right now.

One interesting thing to see from this chart is the Share number. HIMYM has less viewers and lower 18-49 numbers, but its % of households watching it is higher. Shows how viewership numbers build as the night goes on, especially during Spring when daylight gets longer.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #76
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Here's the preliminary data for the full night from TVbythenumbers.com:

Code:
Time	Net	Show				18-49 	18-49	Viewers
						Rating	Share	Live+SD (mill.)
8:00PM	NBC	The Voice			3.3	9	9.23
	CBS	How I Met Your Mother		3.2	10	7.89
	ABC	Dancing with the Stars		2.5	7	15.01
	FOX	Bones				1.9	6	7.01
	CW	Gossip Girl			0.6	21	1.05

8:30PM	CBS	2 Broke Girls			3.5	9	9.14

9:00PM 	CBS	Two and a Half Men		3.7	9	11.25
	NBC	The Voice			3.6	9	9.58
	ABC	Dancing with the Stars		2.8	7	16.67
	FOX	House				2.1	5	6.57
	CW	Hart Of Dixie			0.6	1	1.31

9:30PM	CBS	Mike & Molly			3.2	8	10.23

10:00PM	CBS	Hawaii Five-0			2.5	6	10.76
	ABC	Castle				2.4	6	11.38
	NBC	Smash				1.8	5	5.40
-Series low ratings for performance shows for The Voice and Dancing With the Stars.
-Series low ratings for Smash.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:06 PM   #77
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You've asked about two different issues. First, May sweeps (all sweeps) begin on a Thursday and end on a Wednesday, four weeks later. So the beginning and ending dates of the sweeps period are dictated by the calendar. This year, May sweeps runs from April 26 -May 23.

The other issue is the finale dates of individual shows.
They are tied together, in a way - you would expect Thursday night shows to have their season finales on May 17, as May 24 is not in May Sweeps (which is also why American Idol, which normally runs Wednesday/Thursday, almost always has its final week on Tuesday/Wednesday, with So You Think You Can Dance premiering the following night).

Related question: when does the "ratings season" end - Sunday 5/20, or Wednesday 5/23?
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #78
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They are tied together, in a way - you would expect Thursday night shows to have their season finales on May 17, as May 24 is not in May Sweeps (which is also why American Idol, which normally runs Wednesday/Thursday, almost always has its final week on Tuesday/Wednesday, with So You Think You Can Dance premiering the following night).

Related question: when does the "ratings season" end - Sunday 5/20, or Wednesday 5/23?
Of course Thursday night shows will end on May 17, as that's the last Thursday of the season (and of sweeps). But it's odd that so many other shows end earlier than that, when they still have available timeslots left.

The ratings season ends Wednesday, May 23. "Summer" season begins on Thursday, May 24.

Here's a list of all season finale dates.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:16 PM   #79
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I guess we can read the writing on the wall for NBC's Awake. The finale will be airing May 24th.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:54 PM   #80
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Monday's Final results from TVbythenumbers.com:

Quote:
Dancing with the Stars, How I Met Your Mother, Bones and 2 Broke Girls were each adjusted up a tenth, while Castle was adjusted down a tenth among adults 18-49 versus Monday's preliminary ratings.

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Old 05-01-2012, 06:57 PM   #81
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Worry not. I would feel comfortable betting my life that it gets renewed.
I hope so. It's the only one I really care about this year.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:02 PM   #82
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I hope so. It's the only one I really care about this year.
Yes, definitely don't worry about P&R. It's NBC's second highest-rated comedy after The Office, and the one that gets the most critical acclaim. If they canceled P&R, it would mean they were basically blowing up their entire schedule and starting from scratch, which is highly unlikely.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:56 PM   #83
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Awesome.

I hope the networks come up with some good new sitcoms soon. I like Whitney, but I'm not sure it'll make it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:19 PM   #84
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Awesome.

I hope the networks come up with some good new sitcoms soon. I like Whitney, but I'm not sure it'll make it.
Actually, most "experts" are predicting that Whitney will be back as well. NBC has too many other holes to fill. NBC already canceled Free Agents and will certainly be canceling Chelsea, Bent, and Best Friends Forever. Up All Night is on the bubble. Whitney is a likely renewal.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:38 PM   #85
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But Whitney has a new talk show.. Can she do that and the sitcom at the same time? (Dunno if she actually does anything regularly on 2 Broke Girls.)
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #86
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I'm hoping so. I caught onto it late, but I enjoy it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:23 AM   #87
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Why do sweeps even exist any more? I know they use them to set rates but it seems unnecessary.

Of course the old insane days when networks didnt even air half their regular shows and instead filled them with specials and miniseries. Never made sense to me.

With the way ratings data is collected these days can someone more knowledgable explain the persistence of sweeps?

It seems to me ending sweeps might be one way to see the major networks to start inching towards the 21st century.

I will hazard an advanced ignorant guess. Sweeps still allows the largest and most accurate set of demographic viewing data. Although that seems a bit unlikely.
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:54 AM   #88
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But Whitney has a new talk show.. Can she do that and the sitcom at the same time? (Dunno if she actually does anything regularly on 2 Broke Girls.)
Joel McHale has no problem squeezing The Soup into his schedule.

Sweeps is still important to local news, although I wonder if a move from May to April might even do them more good these days.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #89
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But Whitney has a new talk show.. Can she do that and the sitcom at the same time? (Dunno if she actually does anything regularly on 2 Broke Girls.)
I vaguely recall reading that she is not involved in 2BG. Something about she didn't expect both shows (back when they were pilots) to be picked up, and when they were, she put her time into Whitney, and handed 2BG off to someone else.

Doesn't mean she doesn't still collect her creator's check.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #90
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Why do sweeps even exist any more? I know they use them to set rates but it seems unnecessary.

Of course the old insane days when networks didnt even air half their regular shows and instead filled them with specials and miniseries. Never made sense to me.

With the way ratings data is collected these days can someone more knowledgable explain the persistence of sweeps?

It seems to me ending sweeps might be one way to see the major networks to start inching towards the 21st century.

I will hazard an advanced ignorant guess. Sweeps still allows the largest and most accurate set of demographic viewing data. Although that seems a bit unlikely.
It has to do with local ad rates. There are enough people meters in the big cities to get reasonable accurate data for those markets every day of the year. But the smaller markets don't get good information about their ratings from the daily people meter results. During the four sweeps periods each year, Nielsen sends out a lot more manual journals/surveys all over the country and the results of those surveys during those sweeps months help the local affiliates to set their ad rates for things like news, local programming, syndicated shows, etc.
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