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Old 04-28-2012, 01:25 PM   #1
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Fringe 04/27/2012

Is David Robert Jones plan really to destroy both universes so he can build his own? Whatever that explanation was I (hopefully) don't buy it. Is David Robert Jones really a good guy and he was shutting the bridge down intentionally so the future somehow may be saved in 2036?

Good episode, but I really want to go Back to the Future.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:50 PM   #2
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Yeah, I thought too that the goal was to get the bridge shut down--whether that's for a good reason or a bad one, who knows???????

Cool to see the 2 Walters interact.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #3
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Maybe I forgot, but why would he want the bridge shut down? So he could be the only one to travel back and forth?

If yes or no, what is his end goal if NOT the universe thing?
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #4
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Is David Robert Jones plan really to destroy both universes so he can build his own? Whatever that explanation was I (hopefully) don't buy it. Is David Robert Jones really a good guy and he was shutting the bridge down intentionally so the future somehow may be saved in 2036?
Not destroy as in obliterate, but to merge the two universes in to one where he has control.
Remember, Jones supposedly had a safe area where he (and whoever was with him) could survive the merge.
From the Fringe team's perspective, their universe would be destroyed because they would just cease to exist.
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Good episode, but I really want to go Back to the Future.
Well, this was episode 20 for this season, so it shouldn't be too much longer (not counting summer hiatus ).


I liked the scene with Walter and the cortexifan guy.
Walter: One more thing, <insert sugar cube> have you ever tried LSD?
And then the guy's reaction.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #5
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Maybe I forgot, but why would he want the bridge shut down? So he could be the only one to travel back and forth?

If yes or no, what is his end goal if NOT the universe thing?
We don't know if he wants the bridge shut down. It just had to be to save the universe(s). Just speculation that it was part of a greater plan.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #6
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Maybe I forgot, but why would he want the bridge shut down? So he could be the only one to travel back and forth?

If yes or no, what is his end goal if NOT the universe thing?
Jones didn't want the machine (which created the bridge) shut down. He was using it to his advantage.
The machine (therefore the bridge) was shut down as a last resort to prevent(?)* Jones from accomplishing his goal.

* Does Jones really need the machine to accomplish his goal? At the end of the episode there was still just over 8 minutes left on the "countdown" clock. Are we just suppost to ignore that and assume that Jones was thwarted?
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:59 PM   #7
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...Well, this was episode 20 for this season, so it shouldn't be too much longer (not counting summer hiatus )...
Two-part season finale beginning next Friday. Two eps left for this season...
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #8
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From what I understood, Jones was relying upon the resonance between the Cortexiphan subjects and their alt-universe doubles in order to cause the quakes.

Why didn't the alt-universe Fringe Division just round up the doubles and put them in our universe (or the bridge conference room)? Wouldn't that have prevented the quakes?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:36 PM   #9
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What happened at Westfield doesn't appear to have a real relationship to Walter's insight into DR Jones' strategy. In fact, they seem to contradict each other. So I'm not sure why the writers put that in. Especially since there are major problems with Walter's theory.

Writers could have done a lot better with Walter's explanation of DR Jones plan. For one the black hole thing. Between the blue and the red Earths, the combined mass is not even close to being able to collapse the matter a black hole. Maybe with 10 million Earths you'll have the mass needed to create a black hole. But that will take a while to dissipate the energy of the collapse pushing against the forces of gravity.

Then after the collapse, the black hole creates a big bang? Most black holes don't. But if this one did, DR Jones is going to wait billions of years for an Earth to become inhabitable by his creatures? And exactly where could he hide his sanctuary in a black hole the size of an electron? Or make it safe during a big bang?

I'm clueless why the writer put in this explanation because it really doesn't fit in with what we saw him do with Westfield. If Jones did to the world, what he did with Westfield, only the surface of the Earth would end up destroyed and turned into a wasteland. No black hole, nor big bang. Just a wasteland planetary surface except for his protected sanctuary (his version of Noah's Ark?).

The Westfield way, Jones could start repopulating the world with his creatures immediately. With Walter's black hole/big bang explanation, he would be forced to wait billions of years.

So I'm not feeling it for Walter's theory. The writers might just come up with a way to resolve the two. They have pulled bigger rabbits out their hats before. But I will be amazed if they do.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #10
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Didn't Jones try to destroy the bridge just a couple of episodes ago? Why would he do that if he needed it open for his plans to work?

I have 10 minutes left in the episode, but had to come here to see if anyone mentioned this. Maybe he bluffed them into shutting down the bridge!
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:58 PM   #11
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Didn't Jones try to destroy the bridge just a couple of episodes ago?
He wanted alt-Broyles to connect a device to the Machine---it wasn't a bomb to destroy the bridge. IIRC, Walter said that the device would cause the universes to collapse.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:02 PM   #12
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Yeah, I think the Cortexiphan kids are Plan B.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:02 PM   #13
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W. For one the black hole thing. Between the blue and the red Earths, the combined mass is not even close to being able to collapse the matter a black hole. Maybe with 10 million Earths you'll have the mass needed to create a black hole. .
Actually, you were'nt understanding things quite right. It's not that there are two worlds combining to make this "black hole" but it's two UNIVERSES.

In many cosmological models we exist in not a "universe" but a "multiverse". In it, each multiverse is a vibrating membrane structure. When those Multiverse membranes collide, a new universe is created...a "BIG BANG" is the result. So, instead of thinking of the resonant tuning of the universes as merging the worlds, think of it as merging the multiverse membranes.

I'm no string-theory expert, just a guy who watches too much NOVA on PBS.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #14
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Yea - I've been reading Brian Greene's new book, The Hidden Reality. In it he covers in pretty good detail this theory. That our universe and everything we know resides inside a multi-dimentional brane, and there is an infinite number of such branes (leading to one of the variations of Multiverse theory). When branes collide, the result is the Big Bang.

I think the show mentioned black holes to simplify things a bit - though black hole itself isn't really the catalyst to creation of the universe (at least per that particular theory).

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Actually, you were'nt understanding things quite right. It's not that there are two worlds combining to make this "black hole" but it's two UNIVERSES.

In many cosmological models we exist in not a "universe" but a "multiverse". In it, each multiverse is a vibrating membrane structure. When those Multiverse membranes collide, a new universe is created...a "BIG BANG" is the result. So, instead of thinking of the resonant tuning of the universes as merging the worlds, think of it as merging the multiverse membranes.

I'm no string-theory expert, just a guy who watches too much NOVA on PBS.

And as an aside - I am simply amazed at the level of cinematography, technology, and acting to pull off the character and their B-side doppelganger speaking to and interacting with each other in such a seamless way that I stop being aware that it is all the same person. Both John and Anna were remarkable in this one.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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And as an aside - I am simply amazed at the level of cinematography, technology, and acting to pull off the character and their B-side doppelganger speaking to and interacting with each other in such a seamless way that I stop being aware that it is all the same person. Both John and Anna were remarkable in this one.
The actors are key in making this effect realistic, although stand ins, camera angles, and CGI play an important role.
If no one from this series wins an Emmy, then I will declare the TV award system a failure.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:39 PM   #16
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The actors are key in making this effect realistic, although stand ins, camera angles, and CGI play an important role.
If no one from this series wins an Emmy, then I will declare the TV award system a failure.
I was saying the exact same thing... Even if things like acting and writing get ignored with these shows (even though they deserve it), someone somewhere has to recognize the technological aspects of what they've done in scenes like that. I don't think I've seen it done better, even in movies. You have three actors playing two characters each in the scenes, and you don't even realize it half the time. Awesome job.

I didn't watch season 1 so I'm pretty confused about something new every week here. I know the cortexiphan kids were the ones walter and bell messed with but what exactly was going on in this episode? The 27 of them were all on "our" side, and Jones was linking them to their alternates on the "other side" right? But then how were there actual earthquakes on the other side? Were the Cortex kids on both sides from 25 years ago? I don't think I was paying attention cause I'm confused on that aspect.

I've been confused on most of the Jones stuff this season... I know he has shape shifters on the other side that were coming over here, then there was the giant troll thing that is supposed to mean he's tinkering with the evolution of humanity, then there's Westfield, now there are Olivia's day care peeps. And I'm still trying to figure out how any of this connects to the Observers taking over the world seemingly out of nowhere.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #17
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I was thinking when Bolivia got the call in the other verse: "Can you hear me now?" I imagine the roaming charges are a bitch.

Where do you stand when you're collapsing two universes and creating a big bang? How do you know when it's done?
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:20 PM   #18
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My prediction is that he's trying to prevent the watcher controlled universe. He must have seen that episode from the future!
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:36 PM   #19
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II didn't watch season 1 so I'm pretty confused about something new every week here. I know the cortexiphan kids were the ones walter and bell messed with but what exactly was going on in this episode? The 27 of them were all on "our" side, and Jones was linking them to their alternates on the "other side" right? But then how were there actual earthquakes on the other side? Were the Cortex kids on both sides from 25 years ago? I don't think I was paying attention cause I'm confused on that aspect.

I've been confused on most of the Jones stuff this season... I know he has shape shifters on the other side that were coming over here, then there was the giant troll thing that is supposed to mean he's tinkering with the evolution of humanity, then there's Westfield, now there are Olivia's day care peeps. And I'm still trying to figure out how any of this connects to the Observers taking over the world seemingly out of nowhere.
It had to do with the frequency of the vibrations of the individuals. The Cortexiphan kids on our side had the ability to connect with their counterparts on the other side. By taking on the vibration frequency of their counterparts in the B-verse, it caused earthquakes here. And vice versa (the counterparts were "forced" to resonate at the frequency of our world and that caused earthquakes there).

The thing I was surprised by was the fact that the bridge between the universes and the cooperation appeared to be secret, as Nick Lane had no idea about any of it. I had gotten the impression since the beginning of this season that the cooperation and the bridge were widely known and accepted.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #20
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Where do you stand when you're collapsing two universes and creating a big bang? How do you know when it's done?
As we've already seen, you stand in the eye of the storm.

It occurs to me that this could have been used as a series ending episode.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #21
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As we've already seen, you stand in the eye of the storm.

It occurs to me that this could have been used as a series ending episode.

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Old 04-30-2012, 01:11 PM   #22
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It had to do with the frequency of the vibrations of the individuals. The Cortexiphan kids on our side had the ability to connect with their counterparts on the other side. By taking on the vibration frequency of their counterparts in the B-verse, it caused earthquakes here. And vice versa (the counterparts were "forced" to resonate at the frequency of our world and that caused earthquakes there).

The thing I was surprised by was the fact that the bridge between the universes and the cooperation appeared to be secret, as Nick Lane had no idea about any of it. I had gotten the impression since the beginning of this season that the cooperation and the bridge were widely known and accepted.
It's known and accepted in the red verse, but not here.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:31 PM   #23
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It occurs to me that this could have been used as a series ending episode.
Sure, if we didn't have that pesky Robert David Jones to deal with.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:11 AM   #24
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What happened at Westfield doesn't appear to have a real relationship to Walter's insight into DR Jones' strategy. In fact, they seem to contradict each other. So I'm not sure why the writers put that in. Especially since there are major problems with Walter's theory.

Writers could have done a lot better with Walter's explanation of DR Jones plan. For one the black hole thing. Between the blue and the red Earths, the combined mass is not even close to being able to collapse the matter a black hole. Maybe with 10 million Earths you'll have the mass needed to create a black hole. But that will take a while to dissipate the energy of the collapse pushing against the forces of gravity.

Then after the collapse, the black hole creates a big bang? Most black holes don't. But if this one did, DR Jones is going to wait billions of years for an Earth to become inhabitable by his creatures? And exactly where could he hide his sanctuary in a black hole the size of an electron? Or make it safe during a big bang?

I'm clueless why the writer put in this explanation because it really doesn't fit in with what we saw him do with Westfield. If Jones did to the world, what he did with Westfield, only the surface of the Earth would end up destroyed and turned into a wasteland. No black hole, nor big bang. Just a wasteland planetary surface except for his protected sanctuary (his version of Noah's Ark?).

The Westfield way, Jones could start repopulating the world with his creatures immediately. With Walter's black hole/big bang explanation, he would be forced to wait billions of years.

So I'm not feeling it for Walter's theory. The writers might just come up with a way to resolve the two. They have pulled bigger rabbits out their hats before. But I will be amazed if they do.
You're over-thinking this. It's only TV
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #25
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My prediction is that he's trying to prevent the watcher controlled universe. He must have seen that episode from the future!
I'm leaning toward this. And it's inline with how JJ Abrams does things (if he's at all involved in writing the stories). In the two Abrams shows that I followed from beginning to end, Lost and Alias, there were always big questions over who the good guys and who the bad guys were, and that people we always thought were bad guys turned out good in the end. People like Ben Linus, or Whitmore kept going back and forth between good and evil. We even weren't sure about Jabob for awhile. That would fall in line here with Fringe. Is David Robert Jones really trying to save the world from a world dominated by the Observers? Remember, up until recently we all kind of thought The Observers were good, but now, we see they aren't?

That's what makes the show fun.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:27 AM   #26
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You're over-thinking this. It's only TV
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:38 AM   #27
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...We even weren't sure about Jabob for awhile....
Is he any relation to Billy Bob?....





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Old 05-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #28
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:43 AM   #29
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Actually, you were'nt understanding things quite right. It's not that there are two worlds combining to make this "black hole" but it's two UNIVERSES..
Walter's presentation showed the collapse of two planets into a black hole. DR Jones' Cortexiphan kids were spread out on one planet, not throughout the universe. The show has consistently treated the two universes like they only consisted of the two worlds, Red and Blue Earths.

If DR Jones is trying to collapse the two on each other, it will be like Westfield with the surface of the Earth being turned int a vast wasteland. Why the writers interjected this black hole/big bang thing in may be revealed later, but makes no sense now. And since they did interject it, they shouldn't have made Walter and the rest look so ignorant.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:50 AM   #30
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Maybe he couldn't fit a drawing of two universes onto a slide, and so he shorthanded it iconically as two planets? I agree that the show consistently conflates universe with world. The show is focused just on what's happening at the Earth(s) level, but that's not to say that the collapse wouldn't be universal.
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