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Old 04-16-2012, 03:50 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by madscientist View Post
Yes basically she wants to get pregnant by the King, and she'll do anything that needs doing to make sure that happens.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to my comment. I'm talking about why Tyrion wants Sansa safe, which is the question mwhip asked. You seem to be talking about something completely different.

There's something odd about the power structure here. Joffrey isn't king yet, as far as I remember. Isn't Cersie the Queen Regent because Joffrey is not yet king? But didn't Tywin send Tyrion there to take control of things, because Cersie was botching the job so badly? I think it's not really clear who officially has the power in Kings Landing. But of course as The Spider suggests, who officially has the power is not necessarily the same as who actually has the power.
Joffrey is King. Cersei is the Queen Regent. Lord Tywin is the official Hand of the King. Tyrion is acting as Hand in his place.

I think the only sort of 'made up' one is Cersei.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:51 PM   #62
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I thought it was fine. I always pictured Tilda Swinton as her in the books for some reason. But's she's not tall enough or manly enough (and my sister said she wasn't ugly enough). But it worked in my head.
Brienne is supposed to be very large, very manly, but with fairly beautiful eyes.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #63
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Yeah, I didn't like that they left the stronghold they were in and just rushed headlong out there with a bunch of untrained greenboys. It seemed very foolish.
Hmm. Since it already happened on the show, can I just say how it happened in the book? Or do we consider that spoilery? Plus I think you read the books anyway...

Spoiler:
In the book the Lannister men have to basically storm the keep with fire and ladders. Made a lot more sense.

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Old 04-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by billypritchard View Post
Hmm. Since it already happened on the show, can I just say how it happened in the book? Or do we consider that spoilery? Plus I think you read the books anyway...

Spoiler:
In the book the Lannister men have to basically storm the keep with fire and ladders. Made a lot more sense.
Spoiler:
Yeah. I agree (and I did read the books, well on #5 now). I just didn't post it since everyone got their panties in a wad over spoiler tags in the last thread. It was a much more believable scenario. Arya, Lommy and Hot Pie didn't get caught until later either.

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Old 04-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #65
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and it begins.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:04 PM   #66
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and it begins.
Yeah, we're basically talking about something that I chose not to post originally and me saying that I was trying to avoid the spoiler tags since everyone gets their panties in a wad.

So anyway, the spoiler tags are there for a reason. Get used to it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:05 PM   #67
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So anyway, the spoiler tags are there for a reason. Get used to it.
How dare you expect me to put up with this just because it's a forum feature!
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:12 PM   #68
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The above sort of spoilers, I don't personally care if they're in spoiler tags. They don't spoil the show at all, because they pertain to things that already happened in the show. The would spoil the books, perhaps, but watching this show spoils to books, too.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:37 PM   #69
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Joffrey has been crowned King officially. I think Cierce created her title of Queen Reagent as a way to seem like she holds power, but officially, she has none. She is the mother of the King, and the former Queen, but once Robert Baratheon dies, Joffrey was crowned.

Joffrey named his grandfather, Tywin Lannister, Hand of the King. That is the position that Eddard Stark help before he was murnered, and John Arryn before him, The Hand of the King is essentially vice-king. His orders are to be taken as if they were from teh King's own mouth when the King is unavailable. Tywin is fighting the war, so he has appointed Tyrion as his proxy, so for all intents and purposes, Tyrion is Hand of the King currently. He is the second most powerful man in the kingdom.

But, as The Spider suggests in the story he told Tyrion, power is a nebulous concept. The person who officially holds power is often not the person to whom those below him are loyal.

Last edited by Fleegle : 04-16-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:58 PM   #70
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Joffrey has been crowned King officially. I think Cierce created her title of Queen Reagent as a way to seem like she holds power, but officially, she has none. She is the mother of the King, and the former Queen, but once Robert Baratheon dies, Joffrey was crowned.
More specifically, IIRC, according to Robert's will Ned would be Regent until Joffrey came of age (although Ned changed the will to eliminate the specific reference to Joffrey). When Ned was captured, Cersei took the position of Regent. But then Joffrey was crowned almost immediately, which made the Regency irrelevant.

I think that for Cersei, whatever Daddy says goes, which is why she is (reluctantly) putting up with Tyrion. And for Joffrey, whatever Joffrey says goes, which is why everybody should be s#!&ing their pants.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:00 PM   #71
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Also, we are in the middle of "The War of the Five Kings" I started working on a brief non-book-spoiler post of who these kings are, what they all want, and why they're fighting, but I thought I'd ask if anyone is confused about it or if everyone's clear on all of their claims.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:04 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
More specifically, IIRC, according to Robert's will Ned would be Regent until Joffrey came of age (although Ned changed the will to eliminate the specific reference to Joffrey). When Ned was captured, Cersei took the position of Regent. But then Joffrey was crowned almost immediately, which made the Regency irrelevant.

I think that for Cersei, whatever Daddy says goes, which is why she is (reluctantly) putting up with Tyrion. And for Joffrey, whatever Joffrey says goes, which is why everybody should be s#!&ing their pants.
Very true, Cersei is claiming a position which is irrelevant since Joffrey was crowned King. By definition, a King who has taken His Throne has no need of a Regent.

And yes, Joffrey nis nuttier than squirell s#!=.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
More specifically, IIRC, according to Robert's will Ned would be Regent until Joffrey came of age (although Ned changed the will to eliminate the specific reference to Joffrey). When Ned was captured, Cersei took the position of Regent. But then Joffrey was crowned almost immediately, which made the Regency irrelevant...
Funny. When I looked up the definition of Queen Regent...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/queen+regent
I read it as Queen Regent meant the widow of the king. Doh. It defines Regent and Queen separately.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #74
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Funny. When I looked up the definition of Queen Regent...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/queen+regent
I read it as Queen Regent meant the widow of the king. Doh. It defines Regent and Queen separately.
That definition is essentially what would happen when a King dies and leaves behind a son who is too young to rule yet, and had not specified a Regent. The king's wife, presumably the son's mother, would rule in his stead until the king was of age to take the throne himself.

In our world, a King or Queen can appoint a Regent to act in their place when they are away or incapacitated, but in the world of Game of Thrones, the Hand of the King has that role.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:45 PM   #75
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Renley does have a lot of men, but as Cat pointed out, why is he sitting there playing at war instead of attacking someone. Rob could use some help. And if he has any true soldiers in his group, they are going to be getting impatient. Cat seemed to think they were all young inexperienced men. Jousting and fighting a war probably 2 different things.....

I'm liking the iron born. No negotiating--pay the iron price for everything. Liked seeing Theon finally tell his father off. The sister is really weird, tho. I can't picture her commanding men.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:50 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Fleegle View Post
Also, we are in the middle of "The War of the Five Kings" I started working on a brief non-book-spoiler post of who these kings are, what they all want, and why they're fighting, but I thought I'd ask if anyone is confused about it or if everyone's clear on all of their claims.
I can't speak for everyone but I think I see why they all think they have claim. Except that Robb doesn't want to be king king, just kind of the north, right?
Obviously Stannis and Renly both feel they should be next in line after Robert due to Joffrey not being a Baratheon.
Danny seems to think she should be queen since the throne was overtaken from the Targaryens by the Baratheons, right?
And as far as the last, I assume that's referring to Joffrey himself who obviously thinks he deserves it being Robert's heir.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:59 PM   #77
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I can't speak for everyone but I think I see why they all think they have claim. Except that Robb doesn't want to be king king, just kind of the north, right?
Obviously Stannis and Renly both feel they should be next in line after Robert due to Joffrey not being a Baratheon.
Danny seems to think she should be queen since the throne was overtaken from the Targaryens by the Baratheons, right?
And as far as the last, I assume that's referring to Joffrey himself who obviously thinks he deserves it being Robert's heir.
Danny is not part of the War of Five Kings, as she is on a different continent. Here's what I've written up so far. I'm pretty sure everything in this write-up is part of the show at this point. IOW, I don't think I've included any book-based spoilers.

The Kings of the War of Five Kings:


Joffrey Baratheon - He was claimed by the former King, Robert Baratheon as his son, so Joffrey is the direct successor to The Iron Throne after Robert died. However, he is the product of incest and Robert is not his father, so his claim to the throne is invalid. If Joffrey were to die and his claim to the throne not be invalidated, his younger brother Tommen would be next in the line of succession.

Stannis Baratheon - As Robert had no legitimate sons of his own blood, his closest surviving male heir is next in the line of succession. That would be his next younger brother, Stannis, Baratheon. However Stannis is thought by some to be a good soldier, but a poor leader who would be harmful to the kingdom. He does, however, appear to have the clearest legal right to the throne.

Renly Baratheon - Renly holds the allegiance of several significant Houses and their men, totaling over 100,000 soldiers. He is charismatic and believes he should take Robert's crown instead of his brother Stannis because he would be a better ruler. He has no legal claim to the throne other than "I can do the job better, and all these men with swords agree".

Robb Stark - Rob doesn't want The Iron Throne, he simply wants The Kingdom of the North to break away from The 7 Kingdoms and be elft to their own devices. The people in the North have crowned him King of the North. Robb has sent his mother Catelyn Stark to negotiate with Renly Baratheon about an aleigance between the two. Robb will help Renly take The Iron Throne if he agrees to then grant The Kingdom of the North to their own devices.

Balon Greyjoy - He is Lord of the Iron Isles and, Like Robb Stark, wants his Kingdom's independence again. He is planning to attack The Kingdom of the North while Robb's forces are away fighting the Lannisters

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Old 04-16-2012, 07:02 PM   #78
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All these places used to be kingdoms, right? until the Targarians came with their dragons and defeated all the kings (made them just Lords) and made the Iron throne with their swords.

This is the history as I understand it. Do I have it right?

so now everyone is going back to being a king of their land with a weak central government ruled by a sadistic idiot with a disputed claim and who beheaded the wrong guy.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:02 PM   #79
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Okay yeah I forgot about Balon. But what the hell does Danny keep going on about "I will take back what is mine" if not the throne??
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #80
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All these places used to be kingdoms, right? until the Targarians came with their dragons and defeated all the kings (made them just Lords) and made the Iron throne with their swords.

This is the history as I understand it. Do I have it right?

so now everyone is going back to being a king of their land with a weak central government ruled by a sadistic idiot with a disputed claim and who beheaded the wrong guy.
There were 7 kingdoms: The Kingdom of the North, Kingdom of the Vale, Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers, Kingdom of the Rock, Kingdom of the Reach, Kingdom of the Stormlands and Kingdom of Dorne.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seven_Kingdoms

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Okay yeah I forgot about Balon. But what the hell does Danny keep going on about "I will take back what is mine" if not the throne??
Danny wants to take the throne back, but she is not currently fighting in that war. She is trying to raise an army to sail across teh sea and re-take teh throne.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #81
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Okay that makes sense.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #82
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the poor kid who was going to be in the nights watch before he took an arrow to the knee.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:19 PM   #83
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the poor kid who was going to be in the nights watch before he took an arrow to the knee.
You mean Gendry?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:32 PM   #84
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You mean Gendry?
Heh.

If you're gonna be a rat, you'd better be quick about it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #85
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Heh.

If you're gonna be a rat, you'd better be quick about it.
Yeah none of them wanted to rat him out but they were essentially doing just that because until she said something, everyone was looking right at the real Gendry. This way it just appears as if they were all looking over in that direction at the dead "Gendry".

I'm still pissed about Yoren though.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #86
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I was referring to fake Gendry, who planned to rat Gendry out but got himself killed before he could manage it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #87
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I was referring to fake Gendry, who planned to rat Gendry out but got himself killed before he could manage it.
Oh gotcha.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:54 PM   #88
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Yes it was. I paused and read the letter. It told him what his father was planning and urged him to quickly get back up north to defend it.

I would have been shocked had he not burned the letter.
I think George R R Martin gives every character a moment, a moment where they make a decision upon which the rest of their lives hangs.

That moment right there, was Theon choosing his path, for good or for ill. He put his hand on the rudder and changed course, and now he has to wait and see how that new course plays out.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:32 PM   #89
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Is Baelon Greyjoy really the "5th king"? I thought it was whats his name, the Ex -Night's watchman who is the "King Beyond the Wall".
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:19 AM   #90
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Is Baelon Greyjoy really the "5th king"? I thought it was whats his name, the Ex -Night's watchman who is the "King Beyond the Wall".


No, its the 5 kings who are all fighting each other. The King Beyond the Wall is in the lands North of The Wall and has not interacted with anyone except The Night Watch. Baloney Greyhound is preparing to attack Robbie Stark's lands, and calls himself The Iron Kong. He's one of the five.

That's the kind of confusion I hoped to clear up with my post.
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