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Old 01-28-2012, 08:42 PM   #1
duckpeople
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Tivo Service is a requirement for Premiere to record?

Yeah, maybe I am whining. I bought a Premiere at Best Buy and they said that I could use the Premiere without service as a recorder manually as I do on older Tivos. Now I am told that service is a requirement to get the Premiere to record in any fashion, except the 30 minute buffer for "pause".

Is there any way around this without buying service??

Thanks - Quack!!
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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Yeah, maybe I am whining. I bought a Premiere at Best Buy and they said that I could use the Premiere without service as a recorder manually as I do on older Tivos. Now I am told that service is a requirement to get the Premiere to record in any fashion, except the 30 minute buffer for "pause".

Is there any way around this without buying service??

Thanks - Quack!!
TiVo service is required to use any feature of your Premiere. You were misinformed by Best Buy which happens all the time.
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:42 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by duckpeople View Post
Yeah, maybe I am whining. I bought a Premiere at Best Buy and they said that I could use the Premiere without service as a recorder manually as I do on older Tivos. Now I am told that service is a requirement to get the Premiere to record in any fashion, except the 30 minute buffer for "pause".

Is there any way around this without buying service??

Thanks - Quack!!
According to reports here, once you connect your Premiere to the Internet and let it update its software from TiVo's servers, even the 30-minute buffering won't work. With the latest software (20.2) an unsubscribed Premiere will work only as a dual tuner.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:27 AM   #4
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According to reports here, once you connect your Premiere to the Internet and let it update its software from TiVo's servers, even the 30-minute buffering won't work. With the latest software (20.2) an unsubscribed Premiere will work only as a dual tuner.
That is correct as even the pause does not work without a sub. For a TP that cost less than $80 what could anyone expect, with a 320Mb hard drives now costing about $90 itself with shipping. If I needed a 320Mb hard drive I would purchase a TP.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:48 AM   #5
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A 320Tb HD? Really?
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:49 AM   #6
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I'd buy a dozen at that price... I just added that much to my corporate datacenter, but it cost me closer to a $million....
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #7
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A 320Tb HD? Really?
Yeah, 320Tb was wishful thinkin' on their part, or a slip of the finger. You know what that's like, right?

The pause function does work on my box without subscription.

So there must be a workaround for this issue, no subscription, no record. Any programmers workin' on this? I can't believe that we are just going to bend over for this.

Thanks - Quack!
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:50 PM   #8
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Yeah, 320Tb was wishful thinkin' on their part, or a slip of the finger. You know what that's like, right?

The pause function does work on my box without subscription.

So there must be a workaround for this issue, no subscription, no record. Any programmers workin' on this? I can't believe that we are just going to bend over for this.

Thanks - Quack!
The pause function works on your TP only on a program already recorded, it does not work with live TV with 20.2 software and no sub ???
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post
... even the 30-minute buffering won't work. With the latest software (20.2) an unsubscribed Premiere will work only as a dual tuner.
And without the buffering, the "dual" part is meaningless (changing tuners becomes equivalent to changing channels). So, just a tuner, then.

As an ATSC tuner, an unsubscribed TiVo is a poor choice, too -- the only one that won't use the PSIP program data.

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The pause function does work on my box without subscription.
Has it updated to 20.2 yet? It doesn't come with it.

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So there must be a workaround for this issue
"So"? No, that doesn't follow.

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Any programmers workin' on this? I can't believe that we are just going to bend over for this.
Who's "we"? The rest of us already subscribed.

Return it or subscribe, those are your choices. Give Best Buy a piece of your mind, too.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #10
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No, to the 20.2. It has 14.5-01-3-746. I do not have the TP hooked up to internet or phone so perhaps that is why it doesn't update the software. I did have it connected initially for a few hours.

So it works as a pause on live broadcast in this configuration. I checked again to ensure the accuracy. I have made a mistake in the past.



Cheers! - Quack!
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:16 PM   #11
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Any replies to workaround on the recording issue??

Any alternate OS's . . . Any hope!!

Quack!
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:50 PM   #12
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Any replies to workaround on the recording issue??

Any alternate OS's . . . Any hope!!

Quack!
No, such work arounds would be considered theft of service, and is not allowed to be discussed on the forum.

Seems like you're best off returning the device, or paying for the service.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:41 PM   #13
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Yeah, 320Tb was wishful thinkin' on their part, or a slip of the finger. You know what that's like, right?
Either way it wa too good to be true!
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by duckpeople View Post
No, to the 20.2. It has 14.5-01-3-746. I do not have the TP hooked up to internet or phone so perhaps that is why it doesn't update the software. I did have it connected initially for a few hours.

So it works as a pause on live broadcast in this configuration. I checked again to ensure the accuracy. I have made a mistake in the past.



Cheers! - Quack!
Keep if off the internet. The next time it connects, it will download version 14.9.x which is the version that bricked the buffer in Live TV.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:05 PM   #15
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I was not interested in theft of service. Just getting the box to record.

I got the message: Take it back, or buy service.

Thanks to all who contributed to the topic.

Quack!
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:13 AM   #16
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Getting the box to record with out service = theft of service.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:19 AM   #17
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I don't think a lot of people understand that the business model involves a combination of hardware fees and software fees and that they lower hardware fees and make them up in software fees.

Personally I wish the world would charge appropriately for example charge me what brake pads cost and charge me the cost to install them and not hide profit in the brake pads by the installer but thats not going to happen.

The result of this silly model is that people get hardware cheap here and think they can end around the rest of the hardware expense.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by duckpeople View Post
I was not interested in theft of service. Just getting the box to record.
Those two statements don't go together. Recording in any capacity is part of the paid TiVo service, thus using a workaround to get the box to record is theft of service.
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:14 PM   #19
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I don't think a lot of people understand that the business model involves a combination of hardware fees and software fees and that they lower hardware fees and make them up in software fees.

Personally I wish the world would charge appropriately for example charge me what brake pads cost and charge me the cost to install them and not hide profit in the brake pads by the installer but thats not going to happen.

The result of this silly model is that people get hardware cheap here and think they can end around the rest of the hardware expense.
I don't know how many people purchased an extra TP when Amazon had them for about $50 (now $83) just for parts to service my other TPs, but TiVo must have a loss on hardware sold but never activated, for $50 I now have and extra remote, power supply, 320Gb Hard drive with the image on it, great deal for me but not so much for TiVo.
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:03 PM   #20
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Those two statements don't go together. Recording in any capacity is part of the paid TiVo service, thus using a workaround to get the box to record is theft of service.
I know that it is the policy of this forum that any use of a Tivo to record without service is 'theft of service', and it doesn't make any difference to me, as I have 10 lifetime or evaluation Tivos, but when I read on the Tivo website, it says that the Tivo service is :

"The TiVo Service. The TiVo service consists of program guide information and the following features: (a) Season Pass® recording – automatically finds and records every episode of a series all season long; (b) WishList® search – finds and records programs that feature your favorite actor, director, team or even topic; (c) Smart Recording – automatically detects program line-up changes for your cable/satellite provider and adjusts recording times so you don't have to worry about the details; (d) TiVo Suggestions – TiVo can be programmed to suggest and auto-record programs that may match your interests; and (e) Parental Controls – lock channels or set ratings limits based on content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The "TiVo service" means these features and any additional features and functionality of the TiVo DVR that TiVo may, at its discretion and from time to time, offer."

None of those points mention using the manual record feature that some use without service is part of the Tivo service agreement. I wouldn't advise using that, as you can get a Series 2 Toshiba or Pioneer with basic service for $50 on ebay and get the program data for the 3 days instead of 2 weeks. And you get a DVD burner thrown in too! I think those Tivos are vastly under-priced.

As I say, I don't care either way, as it doesn't apply to me, and for that matter can't see why somebody wouldn't want to pay $50 to get the Tivo service. It certainly is worth it.

Now if someone was trying to steal the TVguide and other features of the Tivo service that they download from the internet or phone line, then that would be obviously stealing to me. But I agree to abide to this forums position that any use, other than with paid service, is considered theft.
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:36 PM   #21
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I know that it is the policy of this forum that any use of a Tivo to record without service is 'theft of service', and it doesn't make any difference to me, as I have 10 lifetime or evaluation Tivos, but when I read on the Tivo website, it says that the Tivo service is :

"The TiVo Service. The TiVo service consists of program guide information and the following features: (a) Season Pass® recording – automatically finds and records every episode of a series all season long; (b) WishList® search – finds and records programs that feature your favorite actor, director, team or even topic; (c) Smart Recording – automatically detects program line-up changes for your cable/satellite provider and adjusts recording times so you don't have to worry about the details; (d) TiVo Suggestions – TiVo can be programmed to suggest and auto-record programs that may match your interests; and (e) Parental Controls – lock channels or set ratings limits based on content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The "TiVo service" means these features and any additional features and functionality of the TiVo DVR that TiVo may, at its discretion and from time to time, offer."

None of those points mention using the manual record feature that some use without service is part of the Tivo service agreement. I wouldn't advise using that, as you can get a Series 2 Toshiba or Pioneer with basic service for $50 on ebay and get the program data for the 3 days instead of 2 weeks. And you get a DVD burner thrown in too! I think those Tivos are vastly under-priced.

As I say, I don't care either way, as it doesn't apply to me, and for that matter can't see why somebody wouldn't want to pay $50 to get the Tivo service. It certainly is worth it.

Now if someone was trying to steal the TVguide and other features of the Tivo service that they download from the internet or phone line, then that would be obviously stealing to me. But I agree to abide to this forums position that any use, other than with paid service, is considered theft.
Perhaps TiVo could not charge you with theft if you could get around all the TiVo imposed restrictions except the guide data, so what, who going to spend the time to get around these restrictions when the work around would most likely last only till the next software update, in theory you can't upgrade your hard drive but TiVo does nothing (at present) about people that do this hard drive upgrade.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:09 PM   #22
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I was not interested in theft of service. Just getting the box to record.

I got the message: Take it back, or buy service.

Thanks to all who contributed to the topic.

Quack!
Third option: Write your own software. If you can get the box working with your software, then it wouldn't be theft of service.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:40 PM   #23
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Perhaps TiVo could not charge you with theft if you could get around all the TiVo imposed restrictions except the guide data, so what, who going to spend the time to get around these restrictions when the work around would most likely last only till the next software update, in theory you can't upgrade your hard drive but TiVo does nothing (at present) about people that do do this hard drive upgrade.
What Tivo should do is put it in their contract that if you use a Tivo you agree to only use it with service, then maybe all these people would quit complaining how evil Tivo is. I always thought that wording was in the contract wording on the website, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
People should realize that a DVR without Tivo goes for hundreds of dollars, and that is to cover the price of the development and production.

Although it is a shame that there are thousands of Tivos going to the trash because there isn't a demand for them. It is too bad that someone hasn't developed some alternate software to load on them to save them from the trash. Look on any craigslist and you will see them and very few sale. Same with eBay, so many that are never sold.

Maybe that would be a good project for student group. Write software to make the Tivos work without the Tivo software. Or maybe someone on this forum that is retired would want to do it as a project. Not as a way to cheat Tivo, but to just save them from the trash. It wouldn't be in competition with Tivo, as people that are hooked on the Tivo features aren't going to go back to a VCR like machine. I certainly are not going to do that. I have a HD Philips that I don't use because it doesn't have the Tivo interface. I have a some ReplayTVs that have commercial advance and lifetime, but I don't use them because I love Tivo.

Or rather than someone else doing it, Tivo could develop the software and sell it for a one time cost. They probably have some engineers sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Or even better yet, get a couple of college interns to do it.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:26 PM   #24
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What Tivo should do is put it in their contract that if you use a Tivo you agree to only use it with service, then maybe all these people would quit complaining how evil Tivo is. I always thought that wording was in the contract wording on the website, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
People should realize that a DVR without Tivo goes for hundreds of dollars, and that is to cover the price of the development and production.

Although it is a shame that there are thousands of Tivos going to the trash because there isn't a demand for them. It is too bad that someone hasn't developed some alternate software to load on them to save them from the trash. Look on any craigslist and you will see them and very few sale. Same with eBay, so many that are never sold.

Maybe that would be a good project for student group. Write software to make the Tivos work without the Tivo software. Or maybe someone on this forum that is retired would want to do it as a project. Not as a way to cheat Tivo, but to just save them from the trash. It wouldn't be in competition with Tivo, as people that are hooked on the Tivo features aren't going to go back to a VCR like machine. I certainly are not going to do that. I have a HD Philips that I don't use because it doesn't have the Tivo interface. I have a some ReplayTVs that have commercial advance and lifetime, but I don't use them because I love Tivo.

Or rather than someone else doing it, Tivo could develop the software and sell it for a one time cost. They probably have some engineers sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Or even better yet, get a couple of college interns to do it.
A software work-around to make an old TiVo (Series 1 or Series 2) work like a VCR would not work on an all digital cable system or on OTA but would not hurt TiVo financially because such a TiVo in most cases are trash (unless they have lifetime and a cable box); I guess you could connect it to some cable boxes VIA IR but no HD or channel information. For Series 3 and Series 4 TiVos such a work around would financially hurt TiVo as people could purchase a new TP for $80 something $ to use as a VCR type recorder.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:50 PM   #25
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Yeah, maybe I am whining. I bought a Premiere at Best Buy and they said that I could use the Premiere without service as a recorder manually as I do on older Tivos.
BTW, the "older Tivos" you do this on must be S1s.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:09 PM   #26
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Can a unsubscribed TiVo Premiere act as a Preview to stream only and be a dual tuner?

A friend of mine would like to use in his workout room.

- Rich
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:14 PM   #27
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nope - streaming/transfers/etc. won't work without a subscription

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Can a unsubscribed TiVo Premiere act as a Preview to stream only and be a dual tuner?

A friend of mine would like to use in his workout room.

- Rich

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:05 AM   #28
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TiVo service is required to use any feature of your Premiere. You were misinformed by Best Buy which happens all the time.
Some features of a Premiere can be used without service -- more so with the older software versions.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #29
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Some features of a Premiere can be used without service -- more so with the older software versions.
Before I activated my second Elite last week, the only thing I could do without a subscription was watch a channel. No pausing, recording, rewinding, etc. I couldn't access the music and video services either.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:50 PM   #30
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Some features of a Premiere can be used without service -- more so with the older software versions.
Good thing a thread that's been dead for over two months was resurrected so that someone could say what was already said months ago.
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