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Old 03-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #1
brianfuchs
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Seriously considering returning Elite and getting regular Premiere

I have three XL's and an Elite. They all have Lifetime subs, and are all nearing their 30-day return window. They are all using the newest TiVo SW.

I have FiOS, and the Elite is experiencing very annoying pixelation, and did a spontaneous reboot two days ago (first one that I know of). Pixelation is practically guaranteed to happen on shows that have quick cuts and fast pans - shows like Modern Family, Amazing Race, and Top Chef.

To prove the pixelation was only happening on the Elite, I scheduled the same program to be recorded on all 4 units. Only the Elilte played back with pixelation. To be doubly-sure, I transferred the Elite recording to an XL and vice versa. The problem moved with the recording - proving that it was a tuning issue and not a playback issue.

The XLs all show near-zero RS corrected and RS uncorrected, while the Elite shows counts in the tens of thousands.

On all units, signal strength is in the mid 90's, and SNR is 37-38. I read all the (in my opinion B.S.) about SNR being "too high", so I then added slight attenuation to the Elite, lowering the SNR to about 34. Still pixelation on the Elilte, but non on the XLs.

So I'm looking for opinions:
Should I jettison the Elite and replace it with another Premiere?

To me the answer is based on whether the pixelation and reboot is fixable with another SW update. Clearly the most recent update went a long way in addressing (but not eradicating) the reboots.


One more very important question: If I do return the Elite and bring home a non-Elite, will I be able to just move the CableCard from the Elite to the Premiere, or will I need to get Verizon involved for a pairing? If I need to get Verizon involved, can someone please fill me in on the process? Hopefully, it wouldn't require a truck-roll...
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:16 PM   #2
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You should be able to just swap the cards without help from Verizon. I currently have 3 FIOS CableCards and 5 TiVos (Premiere & XL) in the house. I can swap my CableCards at will between each of the TiVo's. It just takes a minute or two for the TiVO receiving the new card to display the video..
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:51 PM   #3
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A lot of us Elite owners have been having this same issue as you. Tivo says the the RS Uncorrected and Corrected errors are normal for the Elite, why I dont know. All my other Tivo's do not have them, they are all at zero. So youre not alone in this.

If it really bugs you that much I would return it. I've invested a lot of money in mine and I'm determined to make it work out in the end. I do believe one day Tivo will have some sort of software fix for this, so I'm just waiting it out. The more and more I see people buying these Elites, then they are having this same issue with it. I think Tivo will have a software fix for it one day, when its just anyones guess.

You could always take it back and get a refund and then maybe a year down the road when all the bugs are worked out, go back and try again, and maybe the price will be cheaper at that time.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:11 PM   #4
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Before you return it, try swapping it with one if the XLs, so that each is using the coax input that's now used by the other, and see if that makes a difference. You might also (separately, if that doesn't change things) try swapping CableCards.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:40 PM   #5
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I think the elite is a waste of money anyways. You have a few Xls giving you plenty of tuners...just get another regular premiere and save the money...plus with 2 xls and multi room streaming..you have plenty of space / tuners available.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Before you return it, try swapping it with one if the XLs, so that each is using the coax input that's now used by the other, and see if that makes a difference. You might also (separately, if that doesn't change things) try swapping CableCards.
I was about to post the exact same suggestions.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
A lot of us Elite owners have been having this same issue as you. Tivo says the the RS Uncorrected and Corrected errors are normal for the Elite, why I dont know. All my other Tivo's do not have them, they are all at zero. So youre not alone in this.

If it really bugs you that much I would return it. I've invested a lot of money in mine and I'm determined to make it work out in the end. I do believe one day Tivo will have some sort of software fix for this, so I'm just waiting it out. The more and more I see people buying these Elites, then they are having this same issue with it. I think Tivo will have a software fix for it one day, when its just anyones guess.

You could always take it back and get a refund and then maybe a year down the road when all the bugs are worked out, go back and try again, and maybe the price will be cheaper at that time.
I also have FiOS and My ELite always has RS Uncorrected and Corrected errors. But it is only from when the channel is first tuned. It never increases from the amount when the channel is first tuned. So it does seem to be normal on my Elite.
My Elite hasn't rebooted in over 24 days now. And when I did have some reboots it was only when I messed around with the online Season Passes. So I stopped using that online feature with my Elite.

I would not want to go back to using two, two tuner Premieres in place of my Elite. It's so much better with four tuners in one box. Plus the sale of my two Premieres covered the cost of my Elite with Lifetime(I sold one Premiere with a 2TB drive and one with a stock drive)
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #8
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Usually mine will stay at around the same errors for a long time, then I dont know what happens but this massive pixelation comes, and if I look the errors have just skyrocketed. Some days it'll stay on for a long time that way before it happens. The Elite never has rebooted randomly on its on since I've had it. I always have to do a manual reboot to get everything to come back. I guess I've been lucky I never had those. Same thing with the tuning adapter, it never reboots or goes off. Usually I just reboot the Elite before primetime to make sure I get everything recorded.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:24 PM   #9
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I also would try what wmcbrine mention to try.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #10
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I think the elite is a waste of money anyways. You have a few Xls giving you plenty of tuners...just get another regular premiere and save the money...plus with 2 xls and multi room streaming..you have plenty of space / tuners available.
I agree. I have 3 preimeres and no use for an elite.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:51 PM   #11
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I was considering getting an Elite to replace a Premiere since once in a while I need 5 total tuners and have to record the 5th on my S3 unit. But looks like perhaps the tuners in Elite are not very robust so I'll just stick with using my S3 for overflow recordings for now. (The reason I don't like recording on S3 for overflow is I can't use MRS with it. The S3 is mostly used by my family not by me).
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:12 PM   #12
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I was considering getting an Elite to replace a Premiere since once in a while I need 5 total tuners and have to record the 5th on my S3 unit. But looks like perhaps the tuners in Elite are not very robust so I'll just stick with using my S3 for overflow recordings for now. (The reason I don't like recording on S3 for overflow is I can't use MRS with it. The S3 is mostly used by my family not by me).
Not very robust? My four tuners in my Elite on FiOS has no difficulty recording any content. The recordings are identical to what my three, two tuner Premieres can record.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsnotgood View Post
I think the elite is a waste of money anyways. You have a few Xls giving you plenty of tuners...just get another regular premiere and save the money...plus with 2 xls and multi room streaming..you have plenty of space / tuners available.
I far prefer my Elite to the Premieres, and sold my Premiere to a friend and have never looked back, obviously YMMV.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:27 PM   #14
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Not very robust? My four tuners in my Elite on FiOS has no difficulty recording any content. The recordings are identical to what my three, two tuner Premieres can record.
I'm just going by various reports in the forum where people with both Premiere units and Elite units say the Elite attached to same coax as a Premiere has pixelation issues and customer support suggests trying to reduce SNR which makes no sense. Of course there are some (probably most) not having any issues with tuning. I remember very clearly for a long time the S3 platform had issues related to signal strength in FIOS markets where attenuation was necessary for many to fix tuning issues and it took forever for TiVo to eventually come out with a software fix for it, but they eventually did. I don't know if the Elite is going to have to go through a similar cycle but I'd rather not chance it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:00 PM   #15
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I've never needed to attenuate my signal in my 4.5 years with FiOS, but I did need to with Comcast on one of my TiVo HD boxes.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:22 PM   #16
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I never needed to attenuate my signal either in the 29 years I've had my cable, starting with TCI, then bought out by AT&T, then bought out by Comcast, and now they are Time Warner. I only did so because Tivo Tech Support told me to do it and they said my SNR was too high. Thats where I got the information from, Tivo Tech Support.

For all you guys that are having great experience with the Elite, I'm really happy for you and wish I was in that group as well, but sadly I'm not. I pray and hope everyday that I can make it thru just one day without having to manually reboot my Elite, and all my shows will be recorded all the way thru without having to look and see a bunch of partial recordings, but that just hasnt happened yet.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:18 AM   #17
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just return it and get your money back, the premiere isn't any better.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:13 AM   #18
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OP here.
I returned the Elite and now have a 4th XL. As one poster mentioned, moving the CableCard from the Elite to the new XL worked. Didn't have to get Verizon involved.

Spoke to Tivo before I returned the Elite and they opened a case to have me do a TSN swap tomorrow to transfer the Lifetime sub and extended warranty to the new unit.

I really hated to return the Elite, but the pixelation was simply unacceptable - especially when the other 3 XLs had zero pixelation recording the same exact programs. I don't feel like betting TiVo will solve the Elite problems with a SW update anytime soon.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #19
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I really hated to return the Elite, but the pixelation was simply unacceptable - especially when the other 3 XLs had zero pixelation recording the same exact programs. I don't feel like betting TiVo will solve the Elite problems with a SW update anytime soon.
Since I'm OTA only, the Elite isn't an option for me, but I'm starting to regret that less and less. I tend to think of it as just the Series 4 model with four tuners, but it has completely different tuner/demodulator chips from the (other) Premiere models, as explained in this press release: MaxLinear Cable Receivers Drive New Whole House Entertainment System. Has anybody tabulated full technical specs for the Elite anywhere?
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #20
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Since I'm OTA only, the Elite isn't an option for me, but I'm starting to regret that less and less. I tend to think of it as just the Series 4 model with four tuners, but it has completely different tuner/demodulator chips from the (other) Premiere models
Well, it *is* just a Series 4.... but with *different* tuners and that moca adapter.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:42 AM   #21
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OP here.
I returned the Elite and now have a 4th XL. As one poster mentioned, moving the CableCard from the Elite to the new XL worked. Didn't have to get Verizon involved.

Spoke to Tivo before I returned the Elite and they opened a case to have me do a TSN swap tomorrow to transfer the Lifetime sub and extended warranty to the new unit.

I really hated to return the Elite, but the pixelation was simply unacceptable - especially when the other 3 XLs had zero pixelation recording the same exact programs. I don't feel like betting TiVo will solve the Elite problems with a SW update anytime soon.

Im With TimeWarner cable, and I'm not having any problem with my elite, except for streaming TiVo to TiVo.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #22
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I agree. I have 3 preimeres and no use for an elite.
Are you paying monthly for cable cards? I pay $4 per month per card. Now that you can stream between boxes, if 4 tuners would cover your recording needs and the storage space on the elite would be sufficient, you could save on two cable card fees by replacing one premiere with an elite and watching everything from the eilite. That would be almost $100 per year savings. It is not a no brainer, but it is worth considering.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:49 PM   #23
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Are you paying monthly for cable cards? I pay $4 per month per card. Now that you can stream between boxes, if 4 tuners would cover your recording needs and the storage space on the elite would be sufficient, you could save on two cable card fees by replacing one premiere with an elite and watching everything from the eilite. That would be almost $100 per year savings. It is not a no brainer, but it is worth considering.
That sounds remarkably like the Premiere Q and TiVo Preview....

The former being the Elite, and the latter being a Tivo STB that lacks recording capability. Had Tivo actually made the Preview a real retail device, I'd have easily opted for that over more recorders.

I wonder how many people are using the Premiere as nothing more than a STB?
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:32 PM   #24
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OP here.
I returned the Elite and now have a 4th XL. As one poster mentioned, moving the CableCard from the Elite to the new XL worked. Didn't have to get Verizon involved.

Spoke to Tivo before I returned the Elite and they opened a case to have me do a TSN swap tomorrow to transfer the Lifetime sub and extended warranty to the new unit.

I really hated to return the Elite, but the pixelation was simply unacceptable - especially when the other 3 XLs had zero pixelation recording the same exact programs. I don't feel like betting TiVo will solve the Elite problems with a SW update anytime soon.
Did you ever try wmcbrine's coax swap suggestion?
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #25
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That sounds remarkably like the Premiere Q and TiVo Preview....

The former being the Elite, and the latter being a Tivo STB that lacks recording capability. Had Tivo actually made the Preview a real retail device, I'd have easily opted for that over more recorders.

I wonder how many people are using the Premiere as nothing more than a STB?
Something like it may be coming to retail. See this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=483665

But no one knows the pricing structure. I was just pointing out how the elite might let people reduce cable card costs right now.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:54 AM   #26
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Something like it may be coming to retail. See this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=483665

But no one knows the pricing structure. I was just pointing out how the elite might let people reduce cable card costs right now.
It certainly did with me. I replaced two, two tuner Premieres with an Elite. So I save the cost of one cable card, plus I don't have to switch between boxes anymore.
I actually took the opportunity to drop two cable cards and go from five to three cards. So I also have one Premiere now that is OTA only. That saved me $8 a month off my FiOS bill by dropping those two cable cards.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:11 AM   #27
brianfuchs
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Did you ever try wmcbrine's coax swap suggestion?
Yes. The problem moved with the Elite.
Since replacing the Elite with the XL, there has been no pixelation, rebooting, audio popping, or huge amounts of RS corrected or uncorrected in this house (across 4 XLs)

The day TiVo releases a patch that addresses all of those issues the Elite suffers from, I will regret having returned it. But until then, I'm a happy camper again.
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