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Old 04-08-2014, 08:16 PM   #1
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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - "Turn, Turn, Turn" - 04/08/14

First off, I'll say if you haven't seen Captain America: The Winter Soldier yet, stop reading this thread now and don't watch the episode as this episode royally spoils the movie.

I won't say anything else for now other than wow, just wow. That ending came out of no where.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:17 PM   #2
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Seriously wow. I called it when he asked to go with Hand at the end, but I thought maybe he and Hand were in it together.

Wow.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:18 PM   #3
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Finally, this show grows a pair... loved it and can't wait to see where it all goes.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:29 PM   #4
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Great episode, in my opinion.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:34 PM   #5
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If this is what the show has been building up to, I can forgive the slow beginning. Hydra versus remnants of Shield will be an interesting theme.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:47 PM   #6
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That is an OMG! episode. I absolutely LOVED it.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:52 PM   #7
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Holy shoot did that just happen man I love the integration with the shield universe with the movie and this episode lots of great tie ins and woooooowwww that ending was crazy and the hydra logo at the end good iceing on the cake!!!

I hope they don't drag it out where the rest of the team doesn't know he is hyrda and he goes back undercover with team.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:53 PM   #8
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ok i saw that coming, but more in a, "come on" kind of way. Because here's what i don't get then: why did he go with the plan to blow up the stuff (what was it, the computers?) with Sky?

him killing the fake Clairvoyant makes sense, but it just seems like they forced that twist.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:12 PM   #9
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ok i saw that coming, but more in a, "come on" kind of way. Because here's what i don't get then: why did he go with the plan to blow up the stuff (what was it, the computers?) with Sky?
The characters repeated the idea several times in this ep that Hydra has gotten away with their plan for so long by, essentially, being friends with the good guys. In a nutshell, that's why Ward did it. It was necessary to sell his cover for a little longer.

That idea is also why I'm inclined to believe that Ward's Hydra affiliation is real, and not some other twist the show will undo later. I think all that repetition in the episode about hiding in plain sight was expressly there to set up the twist, and to say it's the real deal. (And anyway, Ward murdering several people would be a hard thing to walk back, narratively, if there were another twist coming.)

Overall I think this run of the last few episodes has been quite entertaining and it's actually made me want to watch the show for what it now is, versus what I kept hoping it would be. That's enough to make me forgive some examples in this episode where I think the audience was lied to in order to preserve the surprises, which I always find lazy and a big cheat.

One thing I did keep thinking throughout: it's tough to have this show exist in the same universe as the movies, because it looks and seems (and is) so much cheaper than those. Nothing they can do about that, obviously. But it was a little jarring to see the spared-no-expense Winter Soldier this weekend and then a day later, this comparatively threadbare show.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:38 PM   #10
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The characters repeated the idea several times in this ep that Hydra has gotten away with their plan for so long by, essentially, being friends with the good guys. In a nutshell, that's why Ward did it. It was necessary to sell his cover for a little longer.

That idea is also why I'm inclined to believe that Ward's Hydra affiliation is real, and not some other twist the show will undo later. I think all that repetition in the episode about hiding in plain sight was expressly there to set up the twist, and to say it's the real deal. (And anyway, Ward murdering several people would be a hard thing to walk back, narratively, if there were another twist coming.)
I thought it was a little too setup though to have Victoria give him the gun. I wouldn't be shocked if it was all a setup to send him undercover in Hydra.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:04 PM   #11
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Looks like Fury can thank Fitz for the mouse hole device.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:07 PM   #12
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I thought it was a little too setup though to have Victoria give him the gun. I wouldn't be shocked if it was all a setup to send him undercover in Hydra.
I surely hope not. There is absolutely no way this show can sell the idea of Ward as a triple agent.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:26 PM   #13
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That is an OMG! episode. I absolutely LOVED it.
My words exactly. Holy crap!
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:29 PM   #14
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I really enjoyed this episode, but I'm also really glad that I saw Winter Soldier first. I feel like this show is finally living up to its potential. Not only was the plot good, but the dialog was generally more clever and snappy, too.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:43 PM   #15
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Looks like the show has "turned, turned, turned" the corner. Helluva episode. How many more before the season finale?
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:08 PM   #16
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I thought it was a little too setup though to have Victoria give him the gun. I wouldn't be shocked if it was all a setup to send him undercover in Hydra.
The producers don't really say one way or the other, but they do talk a lot about the twist in this EW postmortem.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/09/ag...stmortem-ward/
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:19 PM   #17
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I thought it was a little too setup though to have Victoria give him the gun. I wouldn't be shocked if it was all a setup to send him undercover in Hydra.
I'm 90% sure that is the case. They needed someone to go undercover in Hydra. You can see Coulson give Ward the nod as he leaves with the others. Somehow the gun he used was part of the plan to fake her death (and the other guys').

Last edited by john4200 : 04-17-2014 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:52 PM   #18
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ok i saw that coming, but more in a, "come on" kind of way. Because here's what i don't get then: why did he go with the plan to blow up the stuff (what was it, the computers?) with Sky?
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The characters repeated the idea several times in this ep that Hydra has gotten away with their plan for so long by, essentially, being friends with the good guys. In a nutshell, that's why Ward did it. It was necessary to sell his cover for a little longer.
If Ward is a Hydra agent, it's in his best interests to go along with Coulson's plan because it's against Hand, whom I am assuming he knows is not a Hydra agent and most likely is the top ranking SHIELD official still around.
Especially since his Hydra superior (Garrett) is advocating taking out Hand permanently.

If he isn't, he's simply following Coulson's orders.

Put me in the "Holy Crap" camp.
It took a while to get here but those that dropped out are missing a really good show here.

I went into this thinking that Hand was the Clairvoyant but once Hand was shown to be loyal, I realized that it was Garrett.

(I'm not going to spoil Winter Soldier events anymore as this episode has blown them wide open.)

Coulson must be having a really bad day.
Everything he worked for and believed in was SHIELD and it's been dismantled right before him.
One of his best friends tortured him and other friends (Sitwell and others) are traitors as well.
With that and May spying on him (for Fury), that's got to affect him deeply.
(And if you throw Ward's betrayal on top of that...)

And this means that Skye was right about SHIELD after all.


I do wonder if Fury set up Coulson and company to be the nucleus of a new SHIELD.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:55 AM   #19
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Okay, not having seen the movie, I have to ask:

Spoiler:
Fury's not actually dead, is he?

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:26 AM   #20
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Okay, not having seen the movie, I have to ask:



Spoiler:
Fury's not actually dead, is he?

Do you really want the movie spoiled? You should just go see the movie. It's worth a theater experience.

But...

Spoiler:
No.

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Old 04-09-2014, 08:21 AM   #21
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Do you really want the movie spoiled? You should just go see the movie. It's worth a theater experience.

But...

Spoiler:
No.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I pretty much already knew that.
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:30 AM   #22
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I'm 90% sure that is the case. They needed someone to go undercover in Hydra. You can see Coulson give Ward the nod as he leaves with the others. Somehow that gun Victoria gave him was part of the plan to fake her death (and the other guys').
I saw the nod to Coulson before Ward got on the plane and my take was that he was going to try and infiltrate Hydra. When he shot Hand and the two guards, I initially thought he was holding an Icer, but my son pointed out that Hand gave him a real pistol, plus showing Hand bleeding after coming back from commercials removed any ambiguity.

Ward swore to Coulson that he wasn't operating under anyone's orders when he shot the fake Clairvoyant, and he told May and Skye that he did it to protect Skye.

There's precedence for the bolded above, but I'm leaning to the fact that Ward is really Hydra.

However, wouldn't he have said something to Lorelei when he was under her control?

Dammit, too many options!!
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:33 AM   #23
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The producers don't really say one way or the other, but they do talk a lot about the twist in this EW postmortem.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/09/ag...stmortem-ward/
That was very interesting. I'll have to dig up the clip in "Seeds" they mention.
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:55 AM   #24
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Hm, it was so ridiculous when I was saying that Garrett is the clairvoyant, that Ward was covering for him, and that Hand wasn't the bad guy!
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:14 AM   #25
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well here's another thought. When Ward freed Garrett, Garrett almost seemed surprised, and Ward and he nodded to each other. If Garrett was the big dog, he wouldn't have looked so surprised IMO.

Which makes wonder- is Garrett really the Clairvoyant, or is Ward?

Garrett didn't really admit to being the Clairvoyant, he just admitted to being Hydra. hmmmm...

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And this means that Skye was right about SHIELD after all.
right about what? can't recall what you're referring to.
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:23 AM   #26
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Very good episode but I have a question!

I've seen all the episodes but sometimes I'm not paying attention and I'm not sure why Hand initially thought Coulson was Hydra. Could someone let me know why she thought Coulson was Hydra so strongly to order everyone in the plane to be killed.

Also I'm probably not going to see Winter Soldier for a while and I don't mind being spoiler-ed but is this the main stuff in the movie that relates to the show:

Spoiler:
The fact that Shield was essentially destroyed and that Fury was supposedly dead although someone indicated in another spoiler that he really was not dead. Was there anything else?

Also it was said that the special on TV about the Marvel Universe spoiled something from the movie. Was it that the bad guy was Capt America's old buddy who in the first movie fell from a plane and supposedly died. Instead he was made into the evil equivalent of CA. Was there anything else here?


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Old 04-09-2014, 09:30 AM   #27
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Could someone let me know why she thought Coulson was Hydra so strongly to order everyone in the plane to be killed.
You mean, aside from the long list of reasons she recited in the episode?
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:44 AM   #28
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You mean, aside from the long list of reasons she recited in the episode?
Yes, I did get that but I thought there were other reasons that were evident in previous episodes. I guess not!

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:26 AM   #29
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Okay, not having seen the movie, I have to ask:

Spoiler:
Fury's not actually dead, is he?

What are everyone's thoughts on whether Captain America 2 spoilers are okay in this thread? If you have seen the episode, there are plenty of movie spoilers in it so I figure this thread has people who have either seen the movie or don't mind it being spoiled.

For now I will put spoilers tags in though. But to further answer your question

Spoiler:
Very few people know that Fury is alive. He even has a gravestone with a biblical quote he was fond of in another movie.

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:32 AM   #30
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Having not seen the movie, and probably won't for some time, I'd be ok with movie spoilers in here. Since they are connected. Seems like anybody who cares about the movie spoilers probably won't watch these episodes until after they watch the movie anyways.
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