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Old 01-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #31
gteague
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just got off a call with tivo level2 and time-warner level3 support.

we mostly did data gathering on the call today with a detour to restore my channels when pulling and replacing a cable card (which is how i normally 'fix' a sync loss) resulted in a loss of service. we spoke with tw level 3 who got the cable card working again in short order. unlike the many other techs at the pairing center, one thing i noticed was that this tw level3 tech was able to send reset signals to both the cc and the ta that were solid and nearly immediate.

tw level3 tech suggested we replace all equipment (already done, except for needing more cable cards) and, if that doesn't work, then a return visit from time-warner field techs to (re)check signal levels and/or replace the 'drop' to my house. the problem i see with this is, again, my local cable company who, at the level i get to talk to them, would be unable to access level3's recommendations and act on them, but tivo thinks that they might be able to penetrate further than i [g] into their hierarchy if that becomes necessary.

our plan of action (given that i have service about 98% of the time) is to wait until the end of the week for two new cable cards (evidently the card i'm using falls between the cracks of date of manufacture and we (including tw level3) were unable to place it precisely in any fabrication timeline) my local office has promised to mail me. if the cards do arrive i will contact tivo who want to be on the call when we pair up a new one. once we get a new one paired we will monitor for drop outs as we are doing now.

if no cable cards arrive by monday, i am to call tivo back and he will assist me in calling the local cable company and hopefully get on the line someone who is aware of the fcc ruling that they must furnish me whatever new or replacement user-installable equipment that i request: <http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights>.

btw, tivo confirmed that an 'rs_uncorrected' reading around 5000 is normal and the 'rs_corrected' reading should be under 100, although better in the single digits. they get these reading even on their lab machines with perfect signals.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #32
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btw, tivo confirmed that an 'rs_uncorrected' reading around 5000 is normal and the 'rs_corrected' reading should be under 100, although better in the single digits. they get these reading even on their lab machines with perfect signals.
If TiVo does any testing on "lab machines with perfect signals" they should see no corrected or uncorrected errors at all, in theory anyway. Maybe they mean they see a few errors even when testing with a good, clean antenna or cable signal. Certainly in the real world, there will be occasional errors. Lots of corrected errors may indicate a noisy signal, but it's uncorrected errors that cause glitches in the video or audio.

But error counts are meaningful only when referenced to a time interval. I'm OTA only, and (depending on the station) I might average a corrected error every few seconds and several uncorrected errors during a typical show. OTOH, it isn't too unusual for me to record an hour-long show with no uncorrected errors at all, if reception conditions are really good.

Sometimes several (say 50 or so) uncorrected errors seem to occur right after the TiVo has changed channels, with no further uncorrected errors occurring during the rest of the show and no noticeable glitches when I view it. That sort of anomaly may indicate that the initial burst of errors is due to the TiVo software being too busy to properly tend some part of the hardware, thus causing some sort of brief buffer overrun or underrun condition. If nothing like that occurs during steady-state recording, I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it, although it really shouldn't occur. I've wondered sometimes if more cache memory on the hard drive helps.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:39 PM   #33
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With the Elite you always have some errors when you first tune to a channel. This was not typically the case with the two tuner Premieres.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:29 PM   #34
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the tivo tech confirmed my suspicion that the uncorrected errors were equivalent to crc (cyclic redundancy check) errors in the telecommunications field (where i've worked for decades).

any state change on a serial line will show crc errors on the csu/dsu or on the router 'sh interface' screen. we call these state change errors 'clumps' and they are of no concern unless they increment after the state change. typically i issue a 'clear counters' command to reset them to zero, then check again every hour if i have suspicions of a circuit taking errors.

so the conclusion that i've reached is that tivo seems to be the same--these errors are of no concern unless they increment by a significant amount without any 'state change' such as tuning a new channel.

and if the analogy holds completely true, tivo is most likely right in saying they see these errors under lab conditions. in my lab, even a simulated 'perfect' t1 that is looped back to the source will show errors if there is a state change of any kind.

/guy
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:30 PM   #35
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...can someone check under the cable card menu, cable card pairing screen and see if, at the top of that screen, they have a notice that says to '... start cable service for this device, please contact your cable provider'? i currently have service or i wouldn't be getting any channels, but i'm curious as to whether that screen is a red herring or not.
If you read my earlier post, this was the reading that kept popping up on my screen on the diagnsotics pages. It now looks like the copy and paste someone else posted. I really believe you have the same issue I did.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:50 PM   #36
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@larrs: i re-read your post and it didn't seem to make any mention of that '... start cable service ...' screen. regardless, i read everything pertaining to the issue and i took your info into serious consideration--every time i called to have a card paired i would ask them if there were any other fields they could look at that might have a bearing on the card signal dropping out. i've had at least 6 calls with two different centers now and you'd think that even with the ratio of incompetents to actual techs, if that were the case, someone would have noticed it by now.

but the conference call with tiro on tuesday was with a level3 tech. now, for all i know the call might have gone to the same center i've been calling, but both me and tiro asked that every aspect of the card settings be looked at considering the long history of problems i'd been experiencing.

the good news (so far) is that i haven't lost the cable card sync since that call 48 hours ago. but the cable company has 'gone down' with both full and partial outages since then and those outages might have 'reset the clock' on the cable card problem both times and i can't count the 48hrs uptime as significant.

also, despite the cable company promising to mail me cards, i haven't received them and am beginning to think i was an idiot for even considering for a second that they aren't, taken as a whole, a group of lying, incompetent idiots. one of the last things i can try is to drive to a tw location and try to talk them into giving me a cable card, but they have refused in the past and refused to let me speak to a supervisor even though i'm standing in their office.

/guy
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:22 PM   #37
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I'm having the same problem as you are. I've got a Tivo Series 3 that works perfectly, but my Tivo Premier Elite is having the same problems as yours. I reboot it and it works for about 8-20 hours, then it starts getting heavy dropouts and eventually just turns to black screen and says "not authorized to get this channel". Even the recordings get the dropouts. I'm with Verizon Fios (no tuning adapter). I find myself manually rebooting the Elite right before important shows are about to record (just as insurance).
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:52 AM   #38
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problem: tivo re-booted. first reaction was that i was running a kmttg job at the time and that can sometimes cause problems. but now it's telling me that my external storage is missing.
resolution: i've unplugged and replugged the ext drive on both ends and restarted the tivo by pulling the plug and i'm getting the same error again. going to shut everything down and try again. [note: came back up after 3 tries. very worrying. the cable card issues only cost me 12-24 hours of missed recordings, losing my external storage could deep-six all my recordings.]
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:56 AM   #39
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I'm having the same problem as you are. I've got a Tivo Series 3 that works perfectly, but my Tivo Premier Elite is having the same problems as yours. I reboot it and it works for about 8-20 hours, then it starts getting heavy dropouts and eventually just turns to black screen and says "not authorized to get this channel". Even the recordings get the dropouts. I'm with Verizon Fios (no tuning adapter). I find myself manually rebooting the Elite right before important shows are about to record (just as insurance).
I'm doing this same thing on mine now. It'll go anywhere from 2 to 6 hours and then heavy pixelation, then everything goes black. I reboot and everything is back to normal again. I have 2 Tivo HD's and have switched the cards and tuning adapters all around and paired them all back up again. It doesnt matter what cable jack I move the Elite to in the house, the problems follow the Elite wherever it goes while the Tivo HD's never stutter, with no errors on the cable cards. The people at Tivo suggested getting an attenuator to bring my SNR down a bit, so I got several sizes to see which one might help. They were only a couple of bucks each. So far nothing is working. I get a few good recordings but the ones I really want to see that air once and never again, of course those are the ones that get screwed up.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:04 PM   #40
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I've tried swapping in multiple cablecards and various attenuators, nothing helped.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:07 PM   #41
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Is there some way to rename this thread to call out this exact problem. I almost didn't bother reading this thread because of the generic title. I'd like to attract more people to this thread to see how widespread this problem is.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:13 PM   #42
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Is there some way to rename this thread to call out this exact problem. I almost didn't bother reading this thread because of the generic title. I'd like to attract more people to this thread to see how widespread this problem is.
Yeah I'm curious how many Elite owners are having this issue also.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:04 PM   #43
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yeah, i just opened this thread so i could have a convenient place to enter a log of my experience with getting a new elite running and so that others could perhaps learn from my travails, but i've welcomed others' experiences as well since i'm not one of those 'off-topic-soupnazi' types. i suspect another reason besides the generic title that there's not more entries in here along the same lines as mine is that they might be over in the 'rebooting' threads.

/guy
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #44
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@larrs: i re-read your post and it didn't seem to make any mention of that '... start cable service ...' screen. <snipped content>
/guy
Sorry about that. I did not remember that screen until I saw the screen scrape posted later. However, I did see that on the screen when the issue was ocurring.

Sorry it apparently is not as simple an issue as mine.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:39 AM   #45
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i'm terrified to post this. i can only hope that the tw level3 tech last tuesday hit my card with some hi-powered remote mojo that shocked it into better behavior. and i know it's been 6 days and my uptime is not near that, but there have been outages and reboots in-between. and i'm not about to declare an end to this until i've been up for 10-14 days straight.

and for those few here and in other threads who have castigated me at every opportunity for having the audacity to involve tivo, note that it wasn't just that the cable card was reset (it's the exact same cc that came out of my s3 and was giving me trouble in the first elite), a new elite was installed last monday before the 3-way tech support call on tuesday. and, if it fact a conclusion might be reached that it was the new elite that eliminated the problem, that would make perfect sense if one allows for quality control variations in random samples, buttressed further by the fact that this cable card was working perfectly for years in my old s3.

anyway, (drum roll):

cc uptime: (363112s / 60) / 60 = 100.864444hrs
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:27 PM   #46
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I just RMA'd mine yesterday. We will see if the new one does the same thing. Good luck to you. I hope yours works, I really want this to work for me too. When it actually did work it seems like a really great Tivo.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:43 PM   #47
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much as it pains me as a dyed-in-the-wool pessimist, i'm nearly starting to begin to be optimistic about this. i've consulted with tivo to update them of the status and we might never know if it was the expertise of level3 resetting my cable card or whether the replacement elite unit resolved (if it is resolved) the issue.

uptime: ((597 721 / 60) / 60) / 24 = 6.91806713

the pity is all the hours wasted because all the signal levels and snr readings are exactly the same as when we started--thus all that effort and acrimony were completely wasted. also, it seems the replacement tuning adaptor wasn't needed either. but that's how troubleshooting goes with such intermittent problems.

/guy
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:15 AM   #48
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problem: arrived home from work to find a grey screen with the following message: 'problem with the signal on this cable channel'. each tuner in the 'dvr' menu had 'prog lock: no' displayed.
attempted fixes: reset tuning adaptor. pulled cable signal coax for 1 minute. finally restarted the tivo from the menu and it came up with channels working again.
note: since this problem was resolved with a tivo restart and not by reseating the cable card, i'm not sure if it applies as a subset of the original problem. the uptime for the cable card was still incrementing and stood at ((881 297 / 60) / 60) / 24 = 10.2001968 days when i restarted. considering the original problem recurred every 8-48 hours, one would have to say this is a vast improvement although i'd still be very upset to lose a full day of recording even 'only' every 10 days.

/guy
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #49
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problem: woke up this afternoon to find 'problem with the signal ...' and gray screens where live tv should be.
resolution: restarted tivo from menu system
note: crap! well, i had 10 days of hoping that the problem was solved, but it's back with a vengeance. and i have a doctor's appointment, so i can't even try to drive to a cable office and try to talk them out of another cable card.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #50
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I bought an Elite last week. It's only been active and recording for a few days but so far so good. When you test the signal levels are they all good? Or just marginal? If they're marginal you may want to consider a signal booster. I use one at my place and it works wonders. It could also be that the signal is too strong, or that there is a current running through it causing damage to the tuner. You may want to consider installing a DC Block in the line, or maybe just running the cable through a surge suppressor, to eliminate that possibility.

One more thing... What about MOCA. Could it be causing you any trouble? I haven't looked through the options but is there a way to turn MOCA support on/off? If so you may want to try turning it off to see if that helps at all.

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Old 02-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #51
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I bought an Elite last week. It's only been active and recording for a few days but so far so good. When you test the signal levels are they all good? Or just marginal? If they're marginal you may want to consider a signal booster. I use one at my place and it works wonders. It could also be that the signal is too strong, or that there is a current running through it causing damage to the tuner. You may want to consider installing a DC Block in the line, or maybe just running the cable through a surge suppressor, to eliminate that possibility.

One more thing... What about MOCA. Could it be causing you any trouble? I haven't looked through the options but is there a way to turn MOCA support on/off? If so you may want to try turning it off to see if that helps at all.

Dan
hi dan, thanks for the tips and suggestions.

tw has been out here 3 times to check levels and say that they are within their parameters and tivo seems to agree that they are close enough that the elite should not be having problems. my experience with (cheap) signal boosters is that they introduce too much noise in the signal, thus decreasing the snr significantly. of course, the more money you spend on such a unit, the better performance and lower noise introduced. i have the moca turned off and don't plan to use it and i do run everything through surge suppression.

i'm 95% sure at this point that the problem lies with the cable card. what frustrates me no end and where i put some fault on tivo is that i had an s3 with 2 working cards. nothing changed--all i did was replace the s3 with the elite and the elite won't work with either of the two cards that were working just fine in the s3. what is different about the elite that it won't run on the same cards the previous model had no problems with?

and, so far, in dozens of phone calls and truck rolls i've only managed to pry one cable card from time-warner and that was an old beat-up one that most likely had been on the truck for years and didn't work at all. since then they've promised on at least 3 occasions to send me cable cards, but they never arrive and i have no access to any sort of internal escalation at time-warner, which is where i think tivo should step in since their whole business model is predicated on the cable company able to provide service to their boxes.

it's frustrating beyond belief and this is my 3rd rodeo with this crap. i'm like the old bull rider who's so beat up he can hardly walk.

i plan to try to drive to one of the cable office locations tomorrow and try to get some more cable cards although i only have the one spare to trade in on a new one.

/guy
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:52 PM   #52
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Have you tried using the TiVo without the tuning adapter? I had an issue with my Elite at first and it turned out to be the tuning adapter. Without it installed the TiVo worked fine, expect I couldn't get the handful of channels that require the tuning adapter. (might be more important to you, depending on which channels are SDV) My point is the tuning adapter is not just a passive device, it has some effect on the operation of the TiVo and the CableCARD itself. So it's possible it could be the problem and you don't even know it.

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Old 02-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #53
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well, we've replaced the tuning adaptor as well. and tivo and tw level3 support both say the new one seems to be working up to specs and has the signal levels it needs.

and, as you pointed out, tw has moved so many channels onto sdv that i wouldn't be able to get 80% of my premium channels without the tuning adaptor.

/guy
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:12 AM   #54
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picked up 3 cable cards this morning from the local time-warner office. they wouldn't give me new ones, but these might be newer than the ones i have now and those i've tried so far although the serial numbers on these new ones are just barely above those former.

the plan is to wait until i have another outage and then pair up one of the new cards. tivo has promised to initiate another 3-way call with time-warner level3 tech support to pair up the next card.

/guy
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:27 PM   #55
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Good luck. Hopefully you get it figured out and get to the point where you can enjoy your TiVo without worry.

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Old 02-14-2012, 09:42 PM   #56
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problem: switched from watching a recording to live tv to discover a gray screen with the 'no signal' message.
fix: restarted tivo.
note: will be calling tivo and time-warner to pair one of the 3 new cable cards i got today.

/guy
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:06 AM   #57
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Why do you need tuning adapters? I thought that the cable cards were the tuning adapter. I use optimum for my cable and I get all the channels without an adapter. Are you able to get vod with an adapter?
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:28 AM   #58
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Why do you need tuning adapters? I thought that the cable cards were the tuning adapter. I use optimum for my cable and I get all the channels without an adapter. Are you able to get vod with an adapter?
You need a tuning adaptor if your cable system uses Switched Digital Video (SDV), learn more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video
or here:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...dv/r_id/100041

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Old 02-16-2012, 10:22 AM   #59
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:49 PM   #60
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yeah, i can get a few banks of channels without a ta, but hardly any of the premium channels since they have moved them to sdv. it is a legitimate troubleshooting tool to remove it from the input string, however.

/guy
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