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Old 01-27-2012, 09:55 AM   #331
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I got the update on my Premiere Elite some time the night before last. I like it so far. It's taking a bit of getting used to, but I like it. The changes work for me and so far I haven't personally seen anything that I "lost" or is an issue.

I have noticed thought that all of my HD menus are snappier than before. They all use to be a little slow, as in, I could see the 1 to 2 second delay. It wasn't horrible, but slightly annoying and that is gone right now. Which makes me very happy.
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:12 AM   #332
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Drive noise

The new update has been working great on my Premiere. But along with the update I picked up allot of drive noise at the same time. If I am recording something and watching something else it is much much louder that it was before. I guess my drive may be going bad, but it is strange that it happened exactly when the software update was installed.

Has anyone else had any issues?
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:42 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
The exact nature of the bug is that what I call the "extended metadata" -- which is the metadata that's only conveyed via a TiVoVideoDetails request, or the equivalent data in a .TiVo file -- is being completely ignored. Only the basic metadata from a QueryContainer request is being copied.

The extended metadata is not displayed while browsing network shares, either, except with actual TiVos -- surprisingly, it does appear there. But it still is not transferred via MRV. (I had mentioned earlier that it appeared to work TiVo-to-TiVo, but I can now clarify that that's only while browsing. Of course MRV transfers have left out metadata for some time, and even computer-to-TiVo transfers had already been missing some fields, except with .TiVo files. But the loss is much more complete now, and .TiVo files don't help.)
The HMO problem is more than just a metadata problem. My Premiere no longer "sees" the TD Server. Admittedly, I am running Version 2.3 of TD on a Win2K system but everything was fine until I got 20.2. TD still sees the TiVo and the TiVo still sees the pyTivo shares.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #334
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That may be, but it's a separate issue from the metadata problem. I wouldn't put them together.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:20 PM   #335
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recording bug

I've found an annoying bug. On my Tivo HD I used to use the upcoming showings to schedule sports game recordings for the week. On my Tivo Elite with the 20.2 HD UI aside from layering many additional menu pop ups this fails in and odd way.

From the guide:
1. Choose a channel.
2. Right arrow and select program
3. From the pop up menu down arrow and select Season pass and other options
4. From the options menu down arrow to Upcoming
5. Right arrow and traverse down the list to the upcoming show you want to record.
6. Press Select and yet another menu pops up with the cursor over Record this episode.
7. Right arrow and Select the options to modify the recording parameters.
8. Another pop up Recording Options menu appears.

Notice the Time & channel entry on the menu. It is the original date and time of the program in the guide where you had original selected. If you record with this menu it will record the original program not the one you chose from a list of Upcoming where you chose to modify the recording parameters.

Aside from this bug having to traverse through multiple menus this method is unwieldy where it was much more usable on the previous UI. Looks like the Wishlist is the better option when scheduling multiple events of a specific type.

Last edited by dalmeida : 01-27-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by dalmeida View Post
I've found an annoying bug. On my Tivo HD I used to use the upcoming showings to schedule sports game recordings for the week. On my Tivo Elite with the 20.2 HD UI aside from layering many additional menu pop ups this fails in and odd way.

From the guide:
1. Choose a channel.
2. Right arrow and select program
3. From the pop up menu down arrow and select Season pass and other options
4. From the options menu down arrow to Upcoming
5. Right arrow and traverse down the list to the upcoming show you want to record.
6. Press Select and yet another menu pops up with the cursor over Record this episode.
7. Right arrow and Select the options to modify the recording parameters.
8. Another pop up Recording Options menu appears.

Notice the Time & channel entry on the menu. It is the original date and time of the program in the guide where you had original selected. If you record with this menu it will record the original program not the one you chose from a list of Upcoming where you chose to modify the recording parameters.

Aside from this bug having to traverse through multiple menus this method is unwieldy where it was much more usable on the previous UI. Looks like the Wishlist is the better option when scheduling multiple events of a specific type.

Most of this is already covered in the Changelog.

There is, however, a quicker way than how you're doing it. Don't even bother with "Upcoming". Go straight to "Record next episode" --> "options" and in the pop up menu you can scroll down to "Time & Channel". You can then right arrow to the airing you want. This will save you a step.

I still consider it a bit of a bug because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to add time to the recording selected from the guide without all these extra steps.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:56 PM   #337
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My premiere got the new software last night. I noticed the sdui looked a bit different. I flipped over to the hdui side and poked around a little. Not as laggy as before but still an annoying delay as I move the cursor. I'll play with it more later this evening but I have a feeling I'll be staying with the sdui.
The Premiere was a let down as a streaming device. My Sony TV or Roku do a much better job. As an OTA only DVR with a nice program guide, the premiere can't be beat but there's nothing on the hdui I can't live without.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:26 PM   #338
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It doesn't do that on my Elite, it works the way it always did. One press brings up the resolution, further presses change the resolution.
I added 3.1.17 on trust the info was correct, since I had no way of knowing how it worked, prior, in the HDUI. Since you have another verify too, I will remove it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #339
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the size given in the extended info (select program from NPL, then Info) is low, by a factor of a hundred. This is with the SDUI -- the HDUI displays it correctly.
Is this new behavior? How does it relate (or not) to 4.2?

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It's the metadata which doesn't get pushed back. The program itself is still accepted. The exact nature of the bug is that what I call the "extended metadata" ...
Attempted to clarify, although it is pretty complex to try and summarize.

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It's not limited to "Bview" transparency; that's just what moyekj first noticed. Bviews are a Bananas thing. This bug shows up even with an HME for Python app, which doesn't use Bananas or the Java SDK at all. I haven't fully characterized the bug yet, though. Also, I have no real reason to assume that the crash (only one, so far) was related to the transparency bug. I would just note this as a separate entry, something like "HME apps can completely crash the TiVo." So far, I haven't reproduced it, but even once was bad.
Edited
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:41 PM   #340
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Most of this is already covered in the Changelog.
.
Exactly where is this referenced? Admittedly I didn't read all 12 pages of the thread. If it is there it would be nice if someone would update the synopsis. The thread search tool is not that great IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post

There is, however, a quicker way than how you're doing it. Don't even bother with "Upcoming". Go straight to "Record next episode" --> "options" and in the pop up menu you can scroll down to "Time & Channel". You can then right arrow to the airing you want. This will save you a step.
I don't know where Record Next episode selection appears. There is nothing in the menu tree entered via the guide that I have found that has this wording.

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I still consider it a bit of a bug because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to add time to the recording selected from the guide without all these extra steps.
True enough even if it were possible at all considering the fact that it doesn't work once you manage to traverse all the menus.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:05 PM   #341
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I don't know where Record Next episode selection appears. There is nothing in the menu tree entered via the guide that I have found that has this wording.
Guide->select program->Season Pass & other options
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:01 PM   #342
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I just noticed something odd. This may have been there prior to 20.2 and I just never noticed but the HDUI "Recording options" screen includes the "Quality" setting even on digital channels and it can be changed. Since I doubt that they have started re-encoding digital content, this would appear to be a bug. Could someone independently confirm this behavior so I know that my TiVo isn't just messin' with me?
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:14 PM   #343
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Is this new behavior? How does it relate (or not) to 4.2?
It's the same as 4.2. I just hadn't noticed it before.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Guide->select program->Season Pass & other options
On this menu there is:

Get This show
Upcoming
Episodes
Bonus Features
If You Like this

You mean "Episodes" not "Record next episode" that was referred to? This menu selection lists entries by date with no time or channel information. unless you select the entry and then it has the same sub menu as the Upcoming entry and the same issue I pointed out before.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:47 PM   #345
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On this menu there is:

Get This show
Upcoming
Episodes
Bonus Features
If You Like this
And what do you see at the bottom, slightly left of center?
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:50 PM   #346
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Angry Still have absurdly long wait for Season Pass list re-order

This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.

This bug is so ridiculous and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.

With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!! This is utterly ridiculous and clearly demonstrates the minimal amount of effort that TiVo is making into their software. Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core. Simply porting the old Flash based HDUI to Adobe Air required a minimal effort at best.

I believe that the only reason we even got the 20.2 update is because of the recently released DirectTV TiVo and I suspect that TiVo has seen the DirecTV DVR and realized that a TiVo would not compare well against it (and frankly it still doesn't) without improving the HDUI.

TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:56 PM   #347
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Performing a task in the foreground that should be done as a background task is not a bug, it is a design/implementation flaw.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:08 PM   #348
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This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.

This bug is so ridiculous and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.

With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!! This is utterly ridiculous and clearly demonstrates the minimal amount of effort that TiVo is making into their software. Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core. Simply porting the old Flash based HDUI to Adobe Air required a minimal effort at best.

I believe that the only reason we even got the 20.2 update is because of the recently released DirectTV TiVo and I suspect that TiVo has seen the DirecTV DVR and realized that a TiVo would not compare well against it (and frankly it still doesn't) without improving the HDUI.

TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!
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Performing a task in the foreground that should be done as a background task is not a bug, it is a design/implementation flaw.
My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD. Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app so it would just be a matter of adding that functionality to the command.

If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG. Not only is it faster and easier to adjust the season pass order, it does it all in the background while you are watching another recording on the TiVo itself. It will also allow you to backup your season passes.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:38 PM   #349
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My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD. Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app so it would just be a matter of adding that functionality to the command.

If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG. Not only is it faster and easier to adjust the season pass order, it does it all in the background while you are watching another recording on the TiVo itself. It will also allow you to backup your season passes.
i've been waiting 6 years for tivo to fix this spm insanity and it has barely improved at all from when i started with the one of the first s3's until now with the elite and the v20.2 release. i literally can't believe tivo has let this open sore fester for so long. i was in the beta program for a couple of years and kept begging them to fix it and no one would pay attention to me or the few others who complained.

btw, currently there is a fatal bug when using the tivo.com site with the old or new release in that if you change the order of the items in sp manager the premiere and elite will immediately reboot. i think this is limited to premiere line, but not sure.

and i don't run windows, so that avenue is out as well. the only option if i don't want to wait for 15 minutes is to lock up my iphone or ipad while the function runs. i guess you could abort the app once you've sent the re-sort command, but i haven't tried that.

i have no idea what the problem is, but it shows to the customer as lazy, shoddy, unprofessional programming---exactly the sort of thing we're paying deluxe dollars to avoid.

/guy
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #350
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Keep in mind that with this latest release, 20.2, TiVo has still not activated the 2nd processor core.
That part of your post is incorrect. The second core was activated in the PREVIOUS release, 14.9. Although this might not make any difference in performance of a single threaded operation, which the sorting might be. I warned people, seemingly forever, that turning "on" the second core is not a magic cure for performance problems. Especially when much of the performance issues most people notice are the HDUI, itself, which is presumably written in a single threaded environment. And the live, Internet-dependent elements of the UI make it far worse.

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TiVo management needs to get of their butts and get the TiVo software performance issues fixed!
More performance improvements are needed, for sure. But at least SOMETHING meaningful has changed in the last few months (just look at this change log). Something that could not really be said for the previous few YEARS.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:04 PM   #351
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My guess is we might see this change when the Season Pass Manager is updated to HD.
Possibly. But only if they totally redesign the way it works (which would not be an outrageous expectation).

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Currently you can already adjust the SPM in the background with other tools like TiVo.com or the iPad app
You mean Android app

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If you have a windows PC, enable network support on the Premiere and download and run KMTTG.
You mean a Linux computer. Or perhaps a Mac computer. Or even an MS-Windows computer (Hint: KMTTG is not an MS-Windows-only program.)
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:06 PM   #352
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and i don't run windows,
Thank goodness

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so that avenue is out as well.
KTMMG and PyTiVO (and others) run just as well on Linux and MacOS.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:22 PM   #353
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Possibly. But only if they totally redesign the way it works (which would not be an outrageous expectation).



You mean Android app



You mean a Linux computer. Or perhaps a Mac computer. Or even an MS-Windows computer (Hint: KMTTG is not an MS-Windows-only program.)
I think they will redesign it. I think if they don't they will be missing a huge opportunity to simplify the process for hose who want it. I can't tell you how many TiVo users I know and DVR users in general I have had to tell how to optimally manage the list.

I never used the Android or iPhone app so I wasn't sure if they included it.

I must be thinking of another program that is Windows only then. Good to know.
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:13 PM   #354
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I just noticed something odd. This may have been there prior to 20.2 and I just never noticed but the HDUI "Recording options" screen includes the "Quality" setting even on digital channels and it can be changed. Since I doubt that they have started re-encoding digital content, this would appear to be a bug. Could someone independently confirm this behavior so I know that my TiVo isn't just messin' with me?
I can confirm mine is doing the same thing, but ONLY for standard def channels. It worried me that the update had made it revert to the analog channel. Are you also noticing that it's only on SD channels?
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:57 PM   #355
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I can confirm mine is doing the same thing, but ONLY for standard def channels. It worried me that the update had made it revert to the analog channel. Are you also noticing that it's only on SD channels?
Nope. Happens on all channels for me, including HD ones. However, I just now scheduled one to record, setting quality to "Basic". When I then tried to change the options for that recording, quality was set to "digital" and of course couldn't be changed. I just looked at an HD recording that is scheduled for Monday as part of a Season Pass and its quality is "Basic".

Bottom line (IMNSHO), this release should only be used to record episodes of "Saturday Night Live" because it is definitely not ready for prime time. TiVo should seriously consider rolling this one back.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:13 PM   #356
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Nope. Happens on all channels for me, including HD ones. However, I just now scheduled one to record, setting quality to "Basic". When I then tried to change the options for that recording, quality was set to "digital" and of course couldn't be changed. I just looked at an HD recording that is scheduled for Monday as part of a Season Pass and its quality is "Basic".

Bottom line (IMNSHO), this release should only be used to record episodes of "Saturday Night Live" because it is definitely not ready for prime time. TiVo should seriously consider rolling this one back.
It's not a big deal and nowhere near a showstopper. For digital channels that setting is irrelevant so you shouldn't care what it's set to. For Elite machines it's even more irrelevant since those machines don't even have encoders and can't record from analog channels. i.e. It won't affect your recording quality at all so it's basically a don't care.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:41 PM   #357
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It's not a big deal and nowhere near a showstopper. For digital channels that setting is irrelevant so you shouldn't care what it's set to. For Elite machines it's even more irrelevant since those machines don't even have encoders and can't record from analog channels. i.e. It won't affect your recording quality at all so it's basically a don't care.
I agree that this is not that big an issue. You don't actually think I was basing my opinion solely on this, do you? If it has these obvious problems, what problems are there that aren't obvious? Overall, I think this release has serious flaws.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:31 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by bobatkins View Post
This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.

This bug is so ridiculous and long standing that it isn't funny anymore.
Its a lot better than it used to be. It used to take 40 minutes to rearrange my season pass list, now it "only" takes about 5 min. I used to only do it just before going to bed. I can't remember when it got better.

These days you can reorder your season passes on the web.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:14 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by bobatkins View Post
This has been a long standing bug with Tivos going back to the Series 2. If you have even a modest Season Pass list, say 40-50 shows and decide to change the order of the shows, when you exit the Season Pass list you get a Please Wait and can go make dinner before it finishes. You can't do anything else while this is happening.

This bug is so ridiculous and long standing that it isn't funny anymore. A multi-GHz processor, plenty of ram and a multi-tasking Linux OS and we have to WAIT 5-10 minutes for a re-sort of the Season Pass list? Sorting is the most basic of computer programming skills! I have 145 shows in my Season Pass list and a dread having to re-order any show in that list. At the very least this should be performed in the background allowing the user to continue to watch live or pre-recorded shows.

With version 20.2, the only thing that changed was the Please Wait message - now it says, Updating the ToDo list... and just sits there for as long as 10 minutes!!
Just sorting the Season Pass list would only take a second or two. The time-consuming operation is scanning through two weeks of schedule data for all your channels and reevaluating recording priorities and re-resolving recording conflicts. It may be rebuilding the To Do List from scratch. All of that involves some processing. It would be nice if it could be handed off to a background process, of course. Maybe they could just defer any display of the To Do List until the background process completes.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:50 AM   #360
gteague
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
Thank goodness



KTMMG and PyTiVO (and others) run just as well on Linux and MacOS.
thanks for that info, i didn't know that. i run ubuntu under vmware on mac, so i'll fire that up and try those out.

/guy
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