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Old 02-26-2015, 03:00 PM   #1
larrs
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FCC Passes New Net Neutrality Rules

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/tougher...--finance.html

Not sure about this one way or the other.

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:28 PM   #2
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The FCC rules are just what every mere mortal wants, so it's amazing that they listened.
Don't hold your breath that the rules won't be killed by the courts or congress.

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:42 PM   #3
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The FCC rules are just what every mere mortal wants, so it's amazing that they listened.
Don't hold your breath that the rules won't be killed by the courts or congress.
I don't think congress will touch it. As for the courts, it has a lot of precedent with the the telephone regulations. The Republicans (my party) started out loudly against it, but got a lot of push-back from their own constituency...

Only a few hold outs in congress even talk about it anymore.

Anything that forces some competition into the ISP market is going to be good for the consumer - I am very surprised the MILLIONS that the ISP's have spent on lobbying wasn't more effective. I suppose being of the most hated of companies in the world didn't help!


For several years you have been able to "take your number with you" when you change telephone providers - keep your eyes open for a lot of competition in this space!

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:47 PM   #4
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I don't think congress will touch it. As for the courts, it has a lot of precedent with the the telephone regulations. The Republicans (my party) started out loudly against it, but got a lot of push-back from their own constituency...

Only a few hold outs in congress even talk about it anymore.

Anything that forces some competition into the ISP market is going to be good for the consumer - I am very surprised the MILLIONS that the ISP's have spent on lobbying wasn't more effective. I suppose being of the most hated of companies in the world didn't help!


For several years you have been able to "take your number with you" when you change telephone providers - keep your eyes open for a lot of competition in this space!
At first glance, I agree with the ruling (and your assertions). However, there seems to be conficting opinions on whether or not this will foster competition. Your comparison to telecom certainly makes sense; competition is the key to better and faster service.

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:52 PM   #5
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I can only think if Verizon is this much of a baby over it, it must be good.

Verizon trolls the FCC's net neutrality vote with a blog post written in morse code

Quote:
"FCC’s ‘Throwback Thursday’ Move Imposes 1930s Rules on the Internet" reads the headline to a blog post written entirely in morse code. If you don't have access to a telegraph operator, Verizon has also provided a handy link to a PDF, written in smudged ink by typewriter, because these new rules are based on outdated technology. Get it?

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:59 PM   #6
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At first glance, I agree with the ruling (and your assertions). However, there seems to be conficting opinions on whether or not this will foster competition. Your comparison to telecom certainly makes sense; competition is the key to better and faster service.
From my personal perspective and opinion... The conflicting opinions come from those with either a vested interest in the status quo, or a political motivation.

I do think the change could be disruptive and will cause some pain in the near term.

It was the same arguments back when Ma Bell owned all the telephone lines and you had to pay for each outlet and rent a telephone directly from them.

They argued that if they allowed third party phones, it would bring down the entire telephone infrastructure.

I need to see if I can find that commercial AT&T used to run! "Trust in quality, trust in access" bla, bla bla...

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:10 PM   #7
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Look for a further barrage of the DON'T TAX MY INTERNET!
STOP GOVERNMENT CONTROL!
OMG, THIS MEANS THAT xxxxx WILL BE FORCED TO GIVE EQUAL TIME TO BE NEUTRAL
purposeful misinformation.

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:16 PM   #8
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...For several years you have been able to "take your number with you" when you change telephone providers - keep your eyes open for a lot of competition in this space!
That won't really apply, unless maybe you get to keep your email address.

It's not ISP competition that gets saved. It's internet content providers.

You can imagine that there would never have been a YouTube if they had to raise the money to pay for access to potential customers first - the customers who are already paying for access to the latest YouTube.

As for the ISPs dumping on customers - look for the Comcast merger to be denied just because Comcast has always been the worst and proud of it and they just got outed with the tons of examples of the deep customer-prevention culture.

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:20 PM   #9
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If there is any entity other than government that falls shorter from delivering what their "blah, blah, blah" rhetoric promises, and wastes more money doing it, I haven't heard of it. Bad as they are, it's not the ISP's.

Lack of competition is the real issue and basic cost factors are the primary things limiting it, along with some politics. Even if state laws inhibiting local fiber build outs are successfully disabled, it's not going to be a general panacea. Maybe a helpful delta, but possibly will be ruled unconstitutional.

Whatever the outcome, lawyers will do very well with this rule making, and guess where their fees come from, one way or another.

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:39 PM   #10
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There really should not be much change. We are going back to the rules that were in place up until 2014. After Verizon got those rules killed it only took several ISPs (Comcast Verison) moments to start throttling access to Netflix, which is primarily what Net neutrality is trying to prevent. If you want to equate this to telephone it would be like if back in the day AT&T blocked calls to/from people using the smaller telephone companies around the country, isolating those small telephone companies until they were forced to sell out to AT&T or pay AT&T very high fees for access to the larger nation wide telephone system.

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:58 PM   #11
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There really should not be much change. We are going back to the rules that were in place up until 2014. After Verizon got those rules killed it only took several ISPs (Comcast Verison) moments to start throttling access to Netflix, which is primarily what Net neutrality is trying to prevent. If you want to equate this to telephone it would be like if back in the day AT&T blocked calls to/from people using the smaller telephone companies around the country, isolating those small telephone companies until they were forced to sell out to AT&T or pay AT&T very high fees for access to the larger nation wide telephone system.
Verizon killed the simple rules that were in place up until 2014, so they shouldn't be complaining too loudly.

No, the difference is the last mile. This will make that last mile infrastructure open to everyone "Common Carrier". That makes competition possible - before today if a second ISP wanting into a neighborhood they had to construct their own infrastructure.

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Old 02-26-2015, 05:36 PM   #12
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The FCC rules are just what every mere mortal wants, so it's amazing that they listened.
Don't hold your breath that the rules won't be killed by the courts or congress.
Well, I don't mind the new rules, but what this mortal wants is competition. If we had that we might have internet service as good as the rest of the high tech world :-). The way it stands now the monopoly cable company is usually the only viable option (unless you are in one of the small areas of the country with fiber to the home).

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Old 02-26-2015, 06:52 PM   #13
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Verizon killed the simple rules that were in place up until 2014, so they shouldn't be complaining too loudly.

No, the difference is the last mile. This will make that last mile infrastructure open to everyone "Common Carrier". That makes competition possible - before today if a second ISP wanting into a neighborhood they had to construct their own infrastructure.
That is the claim of the Verizons of the world but the FCC chairman says they are wrong.

http://www.cnet.com/news/net-neutral...y-style-rules/

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Old 02-26-2015, 08:20 PM   #14
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........
No, the difference is the last mile. This will make that last mile infrastructure open to everyone "Common Carrier". That makes competition possible - before today if a second ISP wanting into a neighborhood they had to construct their own infrastructure.
Unfortunately, opening that last mile doesn't provide the kind of competition that could give more bandwidth at lower prices. That last mile infrastructure is still a monopoly in most of the USA. There is an analogy to gas and electric service in much of the USA. Your bill has two components: (1) a charge for the gas or electric supplier, for which there is competitive choice, and (2) a bill for delivering the gas or electricity (i.e., use and maintenance of the infrastructure), which is done by your local monopoly.

Regulation of prices that gas or electricity distribution systems can charge is done at the state level. Federal regulation of internet delivery rates would really open a can of worms and I think the FCC is claiming not to intend this. If the FCC attempted this (if it is even constitutional) it would be a massive and messy bureaucratic exercise, and arbitrary decisions would create many instances of government picking winners and losers. True competition is the only real answer and the FCC can't create that if there is only one pipeline serving that last mile.

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Old 02-26-2015, 10:01 PM   #15
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That is the claim of the Verizons of the world but the FCC chairman says they are wrong.

http://www.cnet.com/news/net-neutral...y-style-rules/
What is interesting in that article is Tom Wheeler admits that it was John Oliver's rant on his HBO show that changed his mind.
The FCC received some many comments that it crashed their website.
http://www.cnet.com/news/net-neutral...y-style-rules/

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After a public outcry, including a 13-minute rant by HBO comedian John Oliver who implored viewers to flood the FCC with comments, Wheeler said he changed his mind and became convinced the only way to protect the open Internet was to change the definition of broadband.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU
At the ten minute mark John Oliver hits the nail on the head as what is really wrong with America.
He states: "The real truth about America is if you want to do something evil put it in something boring."

This past election in November was the lowest turnout in the history of our country. This is why government does not work and it takes a comedian on HBO to turn bad policy around.

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Old 02-26-2015, 10:13 PM   #16
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Also, Tom Wheeler is not a dingo (according to him.)

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Old 02-26-2015, 10:53 PM   #17
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Also, Tom Wheeler is not a dingo (according to him.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkjkQ-wCZ5A

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Old 02-27-2015, 08:16 PM   #18
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THAT is freaking hilarious!!!

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Old 02-27-2015, 11:20 PM   #19
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and there will be no new taxes, until there are new taxes for this new public utility.

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Old 02-27-2015, 11:40 PM   #20
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Well, I don't mind the new rules, but what this mortal wants is competition. If we had that we might have internet service as good as the rest of the high tech world :-). The way it stands now the monopoly cable company is usually the only viable option (unless you are in one of the small areas of the country with fiber to the home).
True competition would be best. But since the cable companies didn't want to directly compete with each other, we don't have meaningful competition in most areas of the country. And I would much rather have a regulated monopoly than an unregulated monopoly.

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Old 02-28-2015, 06:27 AM   #21
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True competition would be best. But since the cable companies didn't want to directly compete with each other, we don't have meaningful competition in most areas of the country. And I would much rather have a regulated monopoly than an unregulated monopoly.
I agree regulated monopoly much better than an unregulated one. The Government missed the opportunity to have competition in Internet access. If you go back 20 years ago most people had a cable company, a telephone company, & an electric company, if the Government had offered the proper financial incentives and made regulations that encourage development those are the 3 companies that could have laid down fiber to everyone's homes and competed with each other. But back then most people had no idea Internet access would become such an important thing and of course the anti-government crowed would have blocked any meaningful spending/regulations to help with the build out.

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Old 02-28-2015, 08:18 AM   #22
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Don't hold your breath that the rules won't be killed by the courts or congress.
Don't you mean the capitalistic self serving, big business, hell with everyone else Republicans??

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Old 02-28-2015, 10:15 AM   #23
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Please - both sides have their hands deep in corporate pockets, so don't start that political crap here. This is not the forum for it.

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Old 02-28-2015, 10:16 AM   #24
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Verizon killed the simple rules that were in place up until 2014, so they shouldn't be complaining too loudly.

No, the difference is the last mile. This will make that last mile infrastructure open to everyone "Common Carrier". That makes competition possible - before today if a second ISP wanting into a neighborhood they had to construct their own infrastructure.
The new regs do not include opening up last mile access, sadly.

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Old 02-28-2015, 10:47 AM   #25
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Please - both sides have their hands deep in corporate pockets, so don't start that political crap here. This is not the forum for it.
The only "crap" is YOUR continued unneeded, unwarranted harassment like you pull over at AVS. Namely your "off your meds" remark.

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Old 02-28-2015, 10:49 AM   #26
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You'll quickly find that I'm not the only one here that doesn't appreciate threads getting trashed with politics.

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Old 02-28-2015, 10:54 AM   #27
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You'll quickly find that I'm not the only one here that doesn't appreciate threads getting trashed with politics.
If politics is germane to the conversation (as it is here), then it should be brought up.

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Old 02-28-2015, 11:15 AM   #28
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Talking politics is against the forum rules here at TCF and it will get the thread locked and the offenders banned. Please save your juvenile political talk for another forum.

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Old 02-28-2015, 11:33 AM   #29
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and there will be no new taxes, until there are new taxes for this new public utility.
Show me which federal taxes you're paying for electric, gas and water. The telephone tax was put in to fleece rich people who had telephones to fund the Spanish American War.

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Old 02-28-2015, 11:42 AM   #30
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You'll quickly find that I'm not the only one here that doesn't appreciate threads getting trashed with politics.
It was already brought up in the 3rd post. Or is it you choose not to respond to that?

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