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Old 01-10-2012, 09:50 AM   #121
IndyJones1023
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Maybe Lightwave was a separate product starting in 1994, but it was a part of the Amiga Toaster long before that.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:51 AM   #122
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Maybe Lightwave was a separate product starting in 1994, but it was a part of the Amiga Toaster long before that.
Yeah, you're right.

The video toster (bundled with Lightwave) came out in 1990 or 1991, IIRC.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:56 AM   #123
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That's what they rendered SeaQuest DSV on.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:00 AM   #124
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Look at the "force field" effect. It looks to me like the "cage pattern" was printed on a blue (or green) fabric "flag", with that flag made to wave in a light breeze (e.g. via a fan).
This is the most telling thing to me. Perhaps they could have CGI'ed the field, but the tech at the time couldn't have handled the wavy, ripply effect that the full field had.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:23 PM   #125
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Not correct, per http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/CGI. ILM, Rhythm & Hues, Santa Barbara Studios, Digital Magic, Amblin Imaging and the Post Group all contributed CGI to TNG on a limited basis, mostly in the latter half of the run. The page linked above references several examples of CGI used on TNG.
Some interesting stuff in the article:

Quote:
The relative low capital lay-out (essentially only office space and computers), however, was also partly responsible for the high turnover in number of CGI companies, especially in the early days. As easy as it was to startup a company, it was also as easy to close down companies in such situations as slow business (Amblin, Foundation) or hostile take-overs (Digital Muse). In case of bankruptcy, a specific problem arises, as Lebowitz showed in response to being asked if Star Trek: Voyager could be transferred to High Definition. "When Foundation closed down, the servers – along with the content – were auctioned off. Much of the content may have been saved by artists who worked on the series, but it would have to be tracked down. No matter how you slice it, it would be a considerable amount of work to re-integrate the entire Voyager visual effects server and re-render the FX in HD. In addition, although the series was shot on film, the entire post-production process was finished on NTSC video; to create an HD episode of Voyager, Paramount would have to go back to the vaults, re-transfer the film and re-built the episodes from scratch using the original editing data – if THOSE files still existed."[4] In a similar, earlier case with Digital Muse, Paramount had good sense to retain ownership of the contents, and the entirety of the contents from Digital Muse's server was transferred, one-on-one, to the servers of its successor, Eden FX.
Sounds like a lot of the Voyager (and probably DS9) CGI effects were lost and if they went to HD would have to be recreated from scratch.
I can't imagine Paramount/CBS Video would be willing to foot the bill for it.

Which is also the reason why we won't be seeing an HD version of TMP: The Director's Edition anytime soon.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:44 PM   #126
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Some interesting stuff in the article:

Sounds like a lot of the Voyager (and probably DS9) CGI effects were lost and if they went to HD would have to be recreated from scratch.
I can't imagine Paramount/CBS Video would be willing to foot the bill for it.

Which is also the reason why we won't be seeing an HD version of TMP: The Director's Edition anytime soon.
That seems incredibly short sighted that Paramount would contract out work and fail to retain ownership of all work product. That seems like it would be common sense for anything contracted out.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #127
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Yes, you would think, but these projects are so big that a lot of stuff slips through the cracks and people don't plan for all contingencies. It's sheer luck that a full color copy of TOS's original pilot "The Cage" was found at all (found while cleaning out a film lab in 1987).
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:45 AM   #128
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Interesting read.

The most intriguing, I thought was that the "crystiline entity" was CGI. I did not expect that.

However, I highly doubt the Q force field was a CGI effect for several reasons:
I'm relatively certain it is CGI. When it first forms in Farpoint, we see it from behind, looking back at the Enterprise. It's clearly made of three-dimensional elements. You can sort of make that out in this crude animation:



It's not simply a 2D surface with the effect on it. The bars seem to have all the hallmarks of early CGI to me. They're texture-less, and have very flat lighting.

And all it would take to create the waving action is a simple transform of the individual bars in a single direction. Not difficult at all.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:22 PM   #129
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That seems incredibly short sighted that Paramount would contract out work and fail to retain ownership of all work product. That seems like it would be common sense for anything contracted out.
1. I think the producers' main focus was getting the show out on time so as alansh says, some of this may have slipped through the cracks.

2. Studio Executives haven't exactly been the most forward thinking when it comes to PC technology. In fact, I'd gather that most of them don't "get it" at all. So it's quite possible that they didn't consider all of the ramifications.
Even when you own the company, things can get lost (see JMS and Douglas Netter).
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #130
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Does anyone know exactly what they did to produce the HD version of TNG? Just cleaned up the films, leaving the special effects in place, or did they re-do the effects too?

On YouTube there was a video of Farpoint that showed several scenes split, one side being the original, the other being the re-do, and they'd move the divider back and forth so you could see the difference.

Thing is, except for slightly better color and sharpness, there didn't seem to be any difference. The ship, the giant alien "jelly fish" creature, everything looked identical.

Did they actually do any new CGI?


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Old 01-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #131
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Does anyone know exactly what they did to produce the HD version of TNG? Just cleaned up the films, leaving the special effects in place, or did they re-do the effects too?
Try reading the entire thread.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:32 PM   #132
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Try reading the entire thread.
You're so helpful, you of the 131st post.

There are five pages.



Anyone out there willing to give an actual answer?
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:36 PM   #133
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You're so helpful, you of the 131st post.

There are five pages.



Anyone out there willing to give an actual answer?
My answer would be the same as his. Why should someone repeat what's been talked about this entire thread? It shouldn't take long to skim 5 pages and find the basic info you're looking for.


ETA: Of course, I'm the guy who thought people should read the 100+ page thread for each Lost episode before smeeking for the 57th time, so take that for what it's worth.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:40 PM   #134
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My answer would be the same as his...



And my reply would be the same as well.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #135
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And my reply would be the same as well.
So I guess you ought to get readin'...
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #136
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My answer would be the same as his. Why should someone repeat what's been talked about this entire thread? It shouldn't take long to skim 5 pages and find the basic info you're looking for.
Thanks for the support.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:57 PM   #137
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You're so helpful, you of the 131st post.

There are five pages.



Anyone out there willing to give an actual answer?
They did already.
It's in this actual thread and has been discussed at length, in this very thread.

It's not their fault that you're too lazy to take a few minutes and actually read it.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:59 PM   #138
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It's not their fault that you're too lazy to take a few minutes and actually read it.
This.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:14 PM   #139
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You're a great bunch. I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.

Keep that in mind yourselves in the future when you want someone to update you without you having to spend excessive time learning something from scratch. You're being LAZY, by your own definition.

I disagree, but you made your bed...
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:21 PM   #140
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...
Sorry, I didn't want to read your whole post. Can you tell me again what it was about?
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:21 PM   #141
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You're a great bunch. I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.

Keep that in mind yourselves in the future when you want someone to update you without you having to spend excessive time learning something from scratch. You're being LAZY, by your own definition.

I disagree, but you made your bed...
honestly I don't think we really know the answer about the effects yet

but the live shots are made from cleaned up NEGATIVES which are converted on a NEGATIVE scanner. Emphasis on the NEGATIVES instead of the usual film transfers that they would do on an older show or movie.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:29 PM   #142
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You're a great bunch. I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.

Keep that in mind yourselves in the future when you want someone to update you without you having to spend excessive time learning something from scratch. You're being LAZY, by your own definition.

I disagree, but you made your bed...
Oh, Boo! Hoo!

I've generally found it to be good policy to read a thread on a subject I'm interested in to "catch up" on the subject before I jump in. I also generally don't ask questions that are answered in the first page of the thread.

I guess that in your case, participating in the thread means not reading that which was discussed before you entered. It would have taken you maybe 10 minutes to have read the entire thread, even with moving your lips.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:58 AM   #143
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You're a great bunch. I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.

Keep that in mind yourselves in the future when you want someone to update you without you having to spend excessive time learning something from scratch. You're being LAZY, by your own definition.

I disagree, but you made your bed...


Wow, a few minutes of reading is "excessive" time?
Please.



You were being excessively lazy and you got called on it.
Instead of going back and doing a little reading, you decided to whine about it and blame everyone else for your failing, taking up even more of your "valuable" time.

Just man up already and admit you were being lazy.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:26 AM   #144
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I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.
Of course, if you'd looked through the thread you would have realized what a silly statement this is...
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:02 AM   #145
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There are 3 pages!!!
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:45 AM   #146
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:49 AM   #147
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I'm relatively certain it is CGI. When it first forms in Farpoint, we see it from behind, looking back at the Enterprise. It's clearly made of three-dimensional elements.
I'm virtually certain of it. It's 3D, but there's no shadowcasting, and no interaction between between the mesh and the anything else, so it's rock-simple rendering with a low polygon count. I could have done that at the time with DBKTrace on our 7.16 MHz Amiga at the time (although each frame probably would have taken several hours, primarily due to excessively poor floating point performance without an fpu)
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:01 AM   #148
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You're a great bunch. I ask for a simple answer which would have taken less time to give than all your posts did, and you want to fillet me for daring to ask.
But that's just it - it's not a simple answer. You didn't ask for one specific nugget of info that might have been buried in a thread about a much broader subject. You asked for a synopsis of the subject that the entire thread was about.

So you're asking someone to do that work for you instead of just reading the discussion and catching up.

But you're right - we're the lazy ones.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:19 AM   #149
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But that's just it - it's not a simple answer. You didn't ask for one specific nugget of info that might have been buried in a thread about a much broader subject. You asked for a synopsis of the subject that the entire thread was about.

So you're asking someone to do that work for you instead of just reading the discussion and catching up.

But you're right - we're the lazy ones.
In other words, gastrof, to answer your question would take a post as long as the entire thread!
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:49 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof
...
Sorry, I didn't want to read your whole post. Can you tell me again what it was about?


Quote:
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Does anyone know exactly what they did to produce the HD version of TNG? Just cleaned up the films, leaving the special effects in place, or did they re-do the effects too?
<snip>
Did they actually do any new CGI?
Here's a link that will answer your questions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=475879

OK, being a little less of an ass, here's a post I made after I got a good understanding of what they're doing.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...34#post8891034
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