TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > TiVo TV Talk > Now Playing - TV Show Talk
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-16-2011, 07:49 PM   #1
Johncv
Registered User
 
Johncv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chula Vista, CA
Posts: 1,215
Star Trek: TNG getting HD conversion even though it's impossible

For all the Star Trek fans:

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/09/star-trek-tng-g.php


__________________
Johncv

HDTiVo
27-inch iMac with i7 quad core processor
Johncv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 07:57 PM   #2
doom1701
I blue myself!
 
doom1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 23,851
This is being discussed all over the Internet, with many people assuming that the FX are being redone like done with the re-release of the original series. But there's been nothing official about the FX being redone. I have a feeling that this will be the most disappointing Bluray release in history...
__________________
Tim
doom1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 08:49 PM   #3
vertigo235
Registered User
 
vertigo235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 12,339
I thought I read somewhere that the original film masters were destroyed.
__________________
vertigo235 xbox live and PSN ID = IamVertigo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vertigo235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 09:35 PM   #4
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom1701 View Post
This is being discussed all over the Internet, with many people assuming that the FX are being redone like done with the re-release of the original series. But there's been nothing official about the FX being redone. I have a feeling that this will be the most disappointing Bluray release in history...
The other rumor is that they will crop the 4:3 originals to get a 16:9 picture.
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"
JYoung is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 11:12 PM   #5
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung View Post
The other rumor is that they will crop the 4:3 originals to get a 16:9 picture.
That seems to be what is happening with some HD conversions of old shows. Seinfeld and Cheers were both done that way for HD broadcast. Now, WGN broadcasts a 4:3 crop of the 16:9 crop of the 4:3 originals for Cheers on their SD feed to DirecTV. It looks ridiculous.
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 12:41 AM   #6
DavidTigerFan
Transporter Accident
 
DavidTigerFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 9,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by vertigo235
I thought I read somewhere that the original film masters were destroyed.
I didn't think that was it but rather they never shot with film.
__________________
The invasion is complete. :D

Xbox Live: DTigerFan
DavidTigerFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 01:27 AM   #7
vertigo235
Registered User
 
vertigo235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 12,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTigerFan View Post
I didn't think that was it but rather they never shot with film.
So there really isn't HD footage then.
__________________
vertigo235 xbox live and PSN ID = IamVertigo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vertigo235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 01:31 AM   #8
vertigo235
Registered User
 
vertigo235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 12,339
According to wiki it was shot in 35mm film so hd footage is available. But the effects would indeed need to be done because the compositing etc was done in SD
__________________
vertigo235 xbox live and PSN ID = IamVertigo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vertigo235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 08:34 AM   #9
LoadStar
LOAD"*",8,1
 
LoadStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 29,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTigerFan View Post
I didn't think that was it but rather they never shot with film.
The principal photography was done with Panavision Panaflex 35mm cameras. It, however, was edited and mastered on standard definition broadcast videotape, so they would have to re-scan the film masters, re-edit the show to the same edit points, and reproduce all the VFX.

This is video of the "Reading Rainbow" episode where they show the making of TNG. The episode was recorded during the first season of TNG. I've cued it up to the point in the show where they are talking about editing the show down:
http://youtu.be/cCsD5PRoX7I#t=394s

The task is not impossible - just improbably difficult, time-consuming, and expensive.

Last edited by LoadStar : 09-17-2011 at 09:09 AM.
LoadStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2011, 08:43 AM   #10
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadStar View Post
The principal photography was done with Panavision Panaflex 35mm cameras. It, however, was edited and mastered on standard definition broadcast videotape, so they would have to re-scan the film masters, re-edit the show to the same edit points, and reproduce all the VFX...
That sounds like what I read about the Seinfeld HD conversion. Shorter episodes and no FX to deal with, though.
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:04 PM   #11
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,068
Well, maybe this isn't as slapdash as I thought.

http://www.startrek.com/article/the-...launch-in-2012

Quote:
CBS is, in fact, returning to the original film negatives, a mother lode of material encompassing 25,000-plus reels of footage, and editing the episodes together precisely as they were when they originally aired between 1987 and 1994. Visual effects will not be upconverted from videotape, but instead will be recompositioned. The freshly cut film will ultimately be transferred to high definition with 7.1 DTS Master Audio. And all of the work is being done in conjunction with respected, longtime Star Trek figures Denise and Michael Okuda, who are on board as consultants.
No word yet if they'll leave it at 4:3 though.
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"
JYoung is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:41 PM   #12
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
I'm all over this if it's 16X9 and not excessively cropped to do so...
__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:50 PM   #13
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bierboy View Post
I'm all over this if it's 16X9 and not excessively cropped to do so...
Why would you want it 16X9? That will take a fair amount of cropping, won't it?
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:50 PM   #14
Fleegle
Chef-In-Training
 
Fleegle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,349
Wow, that's a lot of work, these will NOT be cheap Blu-Ray sets. I'm imagining a minimum of $150 per season. And I'll likely buy them if they're as good as they sound.
Fleegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:00 PM   #15
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougF View Post
Why would you want it 16X9? That will take a fair amount of cropping, won't it?
Did you read my comment? I said I'm all over it IF IT'S NOT EXCESSIVELY CROPPED...

I wouldn't waste my money if the cropping leaves out critical stuff....
__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:01 PM   #16
Fleegle
Chef-In-Training
 
Fleegle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bierboy View Post
I'm all over this if it's 16X9 and not excessively cropped to do so...
I would prefer original aspect ratio, I don't want it to be cropped at all.
Fleegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:02 PM   #17
Fleegle
Chef-In-Training
 
Fleegle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bierboy View Post
Did you read my comment? I said I'm all over it IF IT'S NOT EXCESSIVELY CROPPED...
Cropping a 4X3 film to 16X9 would crop out the same percentage of video regardless of the program. So whether it's Hogan's Heroes, Cheers or ST:TNG, it will be excessively cropped to get it to 16:9.
Fleegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:03 PM   #18
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleegle View Post
I would prefer original aspect ratio, I don't want it to be cropped at all.
I can live with the cropping as long as we don't miss critical material...the trade-off would be worth it IMO.
__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:04 PM   #19
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleegle View Post
Cropping a 4X3 film to 16X9 would crop out the same percentage of video regardless of the program. So whether it's Hogan's Heroes, Cheers or ST:TNG, it will be excessively cropped to get it to 16:9.
Depends on your definition of "excessive". One person's "excessive" might be another person's "not excessive"...
__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:05 PM   #20
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleegle View Post
Cropping a 4X3 film to 16X9 would crop out the same percentage of video regardless of the program...
Same percentage, yes. But it's what is INSIDE that cropped area that determines for me whether it's excessive or not...if it's non-critical video material then I'm OK with it.
__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:13 PM   #21
LoadStar
LOAD"*",8,1
 
LoadStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 29,644
The show was framed for 4:3 aspect ratio, and as such, I would not want them to alter this. Changing it to 16:9 creates a different visual image than what the director intended.
LoadStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:18 PM   #22
DavidTigerFan
Transporter Accident
 
DavidTigerFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 9,319
I think they should stretch it.
__________________
The invasion is complete. :D

Xbox Live: DTigerFan
DavidTigerFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #23
Bierboy
Seasoned gas passer
 
Bierboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Quad Sillies
Posts: 11,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTigerFan View Post
I think they should stretch it.

__________________
"You don't know Bierboy like I know Bierboy. He became a lot more amusing after I figured out his sense of humor..." -- Rob Helmerichs

XL4
Bierboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #24
Amnesia
The Question
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 9,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung View Post
Well, maybe this isn't as slapdash as I thought.
http://www.startrek.com/article/the-...launch-in-2012
I don't understand why they would release a Blu-ray with just a selection of episodes. A true fan might decide to purchase the season sets, but if they're going to release all the seasons, why would you want this "Next Level" disc?
Amnesia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:32 PM   #25
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia View Post
I don't understand why they would release a Blu-ray with just a selection of episodes. A true fan might decide to purchase the season sets, but if they're going to release all the seasons, why would you want this "Next Level" disc?
I think it's a test to see what the demand is. Plus, they'll want to see the reaction to the conversions.

They have seven seasons to do. I'm sure they'll want some kind of gauge of interest before going to that expense.
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:33 PM   #26
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bierboy View Post
Did you read my comment? I said I'm all over it IF IT'S NOT EXCESSIVELY CROPPED...

I wouldn't waste my money if the cropping leaves out critical stuff....
Yeah, I read it. But, the same percentage is cropped out. In some shots it might be critical, in others it won't.

Regardless of that, why would you want it 16X9? Just to fill your screen?
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #27
Amnesia
The Question
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 9,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougF View Post
I think it's a test to see what the demand is.
I just don't see how the test could gauge demand. I imagine most fans will want to wait for the set and not spend $22 on content that they'll just get in the season sets.

So what then would low sales indicate? That no one is interested in season sets? Or that there are tons of people waiting for the season sets?
Amnesia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:41 PM   #28
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia View Post
I just don't see how the test could gauge demand. I imagine most fans will want to wait for the set and not spend $22 on content that they'll just get in the season sets.

So what then would low sales indicate? That no one is interested in season sets? Or that there are tons of people waiting for the season sets?
I don't know. My guess it that a fair amount of fans will fork over $22 to get a look and see how the conversion came out. If enough do that and reaction is good, they may decide to go ahead with full season sets.
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:42 PM   #29
LoadStar
LOAD"*",8,1
 
LoadStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 29,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia View Post
I just don't see how the test could gauge demand. I imagine most fans will want to wait for the set and not spend $22 on content that they'll just get in the season sets.

So what then would low sales indicate? That no one is interested in season sets? Or that there are tons of people waiting for the season sets?
I think it'll work sort of how a survey works, in that it will be a "sampling" of the fan base. They probably know that it will be low for exactly the reason you suggest... but there will be a subset that will be so eager to see it in HD that they will buy it anyway. Based on how large that subset is that ends up buying it will help them determine how much demand there is for the final box sets.
LoadStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:47 PM   #30
DougF
Registered User
 
DougF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,590
Plus, Star Trek geeks are known for buying anything with the words "Star Trek" on it. There was a wedding on Cheers once (Rebecca and Robin Colcord?) where Frasier and Lilith gave the couple a set of Star Trek steak knives as a gift. Sure It was a gag and I have no idea if those things ever existed, but it worked because there was some truth to it.

I think a fair amount of people will buy this and a decision on the season sets will come from the sales figures, reviews, online chatter, etc. I think they are being cautious because the TNG love just isn't like the TOS love. Converting to HD for TOS was all but a sure thing for making some money.
DougF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |