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Old 12-12-2011, 04:13 PM   #481
sushikitten
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Thumbs up for the TA on a timer solution. No issues since we set that up.

/knock on wood
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:41 PM   #482
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Thumbs up for the TA on a timer solution. No issues since we set that up.

/knock on wood


Good to hear.

Some times "there i fixed it" IS the best solution.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/80712667/

I'm ultimately solving my problem with an Elite.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:13 PM   #483
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I also thumbs-up the TA timer method. I've been doing the channel lineup change, but two days ago after reading this forum switched to the TA timer method. GC is now upldating and suggestions are starting to appear after 2 months of no suggestions.
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:39 PM   #484
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Good to hear.

Some times "there i fixed it" IS the best solution.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/80712667/

I'm ultimately solving my problem with an Elite.
Looks like I'm going in a different direction. I have had an HTPC hooked up to my system for a while that was just recording network HD shows as a backup. I just bought a Ceton USB 4 tuner, put in a cable card and tuning adapter, and now have the functional equivalent of an Elite. With unlimited hard drive capacity.

I'm still keeping my Tivo HD because it is lifetime, and has the ability to do OTA, but I will disconnect my two Series 2 machines.

I'm playing around with Recorded TV HD as my interface. It will put shows in folders, which is my main concern about Windows 7 Media Center. So I may be good to go.

Looks like the end of the road for me and Tivo as far as new purchases are concerned. It was a great 11 years or so (and 6 machines with lifetime), but this TA problem has pushed me over the edge.

I will miss the Tivo interface on my HTPC, but I can live with that. And I still have the Tivo HD for any interface fix I may need.
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:41 PM   #485
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I will miss the Tivo interface on my HTPC, but I can live with that. And I still have the Tivo HD for any interface fix I may need.
I considered the ceton option too. But it won't pass the WAF in my house.

HTPC is a good hobby.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:22 PM   #486
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There's a third way, too.

Interrupt the Tivo's communication to the mothership for 48 hours in a row.

That's the method I use and it works like a charm. My TivoHD with issues only has access to the mothership Tuesday, Wednesday & Saturday. The other days of the week, access is blocked. Haven't had a GC issue since.

[NG]Owner
like, unplug the cat5 for a couple of days?

eta; when I was getting the nag screen a year + ago, i use to do a clear thumb & suggestions. That got rid of the nag screen. I'm now wondering if that forced a GC dump. I'll test that & report back
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:25 AM   #487
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There's a third way, too.

Interrupt the Tivo's communication to the mothership for 48 hours in a row.

That's the method I use and it works like a charm. My TivoHD with issues only has access to the mothership Tuesday, Wednesday & Saturday. The other days of the week, access is blocked. Haven't had a GC issue since.

[NG]Owner
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like, unplug the cat5 for a couple of days?

eta; when I was getting the nag screen a year + ago, i use to do a clear thumb & suggestions. That got rid of the nag screen. I'm now wondering if that forced a GC dump. I'll test that & report back
The reason I only mentioned two methods was because I used the word RELIABLE methods. While disconnecting from the internet has worked for some, it has not worked well for others. Also, I believe automating the disconnect method means altering your router settings, which is something the vast majority of people don't want to mess with.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:17 PM   #488
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The reason I only mentioned two methods was because I used the word RELIABLE methods. While disconnecting from the internet has worked for some, it has not worked well for others. Also, I believe automating the disconnect method means altering your router settings, which is something the vast majority of people don't want to mess with.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I was using the net disconnect method until the TA timer came along. I think the reason that it does not work for some people is they did not stay disconnected long enough. Once a TiVo starts complaining about guide data running out, GC has gotten way behind. The first time I disconnected, it took over 3 days for GC to complete. After that, 48 hours or so.

Yes, to automate it requires both a router that can disconnect a particular IP address by day of the week and the willingness to mess with it. It is also a problem if you frequently schedule recordings on the TiVo web site. TiVo won't get those requests while disconnected.

But if your TA is buried deep in a equipment rack or your To Do list has recordings at all times of the day, you might find network disconnect more useful to you.

I took my TA off the timer about three weeks ago and all is still going fine. I get a GC every two or three days, guide data is updated, cached, and indexed near daily like it is supposed to.

Some of us may just have had a transient problem that let GC get wedged and don't need to continue to force a GC by any method.

-- Doug
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:46 PM   #489
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I was using the net disconnect method until the TA timer came along. I think the reason that it does not work for some people is they did not stay disconnected long enough. Once a TiVo starts complaining about guide data running out, GC has gotten way behind. The first time I disconnected, it took over 3 days for GC to complete. After that, 48 hours or so.

Yes, to automate it requires both a router that can disconnect a particular IP address by day of the week and the willingness to mess with it. It is also a problem if you frequently schedule recordings on the TiVo web site. TiVo won't get those requests while disconnected.

But if your TA is buried deep in a equipment rack or your To Do list has recordings at all times of the day, you might find network disconnect more useful to you.

I took my TA off the timer about three weeks ago and all is still going fine. I get a GC every two or three days, guide data is updated, cached, and indexed near daily like it is supposed to.

Some of us may just have had a transient problem that let GC get wedged and don't need to continue to force a GC by any method.

-- Doug
Thanks for the info. I think I will try eliminating the timer and see what my Tivo does. After the holidays, since I will be traveling and don't want my GC to get messed up while I'm gone.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:55 AM   #490
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Bump to keep this one on the first page of the group.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:36 PM   #491
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Adding to the list of users with this problem...

Long-time stalker, first-time poster. This is a long post, but with all the variables I've seen in this long thread, can't hurt to be thorough.

We have 3 Tivos: S1, S2, and a standard S3 HD XL with Cisco TA on flash version 1501. We're on TWC Austin. The S3 XL box has the problem.

This is actually our 4th S3 XL box, after experiencing this same problem in August 2010 with our 1st S3 XL box (also standard, with TA), only to go down the rabbit hole with Tivo support off/on for days. That resulted in 3 replacement boxes in the span of 1-2 weeks till one finally worked. If I remember correctly, I think we at least determined the 2nd and 3rd boxes were bad rather quickly, and only the 4th box required the call to TWC to come out to pair the cable card with the Tivo. (One had an obnoxious fan, don't remember the issue with the 3rd box). That experience told me that these boxes were problematic, and Tivo was focused on the next version.

I'm glad to see the research on this issue has evolved! Last year, I read through "Running out of guide data despite daily service connections." I ended up with the green screen of death loop, so I was well aware when the "Program guide will run out…" messages started up again on this Tivo. However, I didn't bother going to the forums when it initially started up again, figuring I would just do regular reboots till this one finally fries like the last one.

The timing of the issue on this box was almost identical to my 1st! The 1st box was about 1 yr, 2 months old when I finally called Tivo, and this box is now 1 yr, 4 months. We keep a ton on our Tivo. Some stats:
- We have 91 season passes, 211 saved recordings (varying in recording quality and length, of course). Our last box was about the same upon its death.
- Our last Suggested recording was mid-August 2011, but till reading this, I thought was just because it was finally filling up.
- Before troubleshooting ideas found here, my GC date was 10/27/11. I think the nag screen started around Halloween, then we commenced regular reboots.
- I have noticed a change in the Recently Deleted volume over time. It used to have 200+ items. Now, maybe 30. Again, figured that is due to disk space filling up.

This week, rebooting did not stop the nag screen. I went to the original thread I'd saved from 8/2010, which led me to this thread. I looks like this thread has SAVED MY TIVO!!! Here are the steps I've taken the last two days:
- Forced a connection, watched it churn only to fail with an "unknown" error
- Unplug Tivo for a cold restart, then forced a connection again. Finally get the S03 error. (I hadn't finished reading the thread at this point…)
- I did the "channel line-up fix" last night. That took about 6.5 hours (at 6.5 hrs, loading was at 98%, didn't check again till morning). It was on "Preparing (Preparing…)" for over an hour. Thank you for the tip that it can take 12 hours!
- This morning, I saw GC updated to 12/27 8:32 pm, but I still had the nag screen
- Rebooted…
- After the reboot, the program guide date was 1/10/12 and nag screen was gone, but I couldn't see any programs past 12/29, except when viewing the live guide.
- In hindsight, I should have looked at that the Indexing date at that time, then just waited a few hours till it updated. Instead, I went on to force a connection and unplug the TA. A few hours later when I went to see if the GC date had updated, I saw that the Indexing date had updated in that timeframe. Program data finally looked good at that point, so reconnected the TA.

From here on out, I will monitor my GC date and probably put my TA on a timer. Till I set up the timer, I'll disconnect the USB for a few hours when the GC gets old. If I let it go too long and get the nag screen, I'll start with the "channel line-up" fix before getting to the point of the S03 error.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE EFFORT FINDING DECENT WORK-AROUNDS!
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:49 AM   #492
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From here on out, I will monitor my GC date and probably put my TA on a timer. Till I set up the timer, I'll disconnect the USB for a few hours when the GC gets old. If I let it go too long and get the nag screen, I'll start with the "channel line-up" fix before getting to the point of the S03 error.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE EFFORT FINDING DECENT WORK-AROUNDS!
My TiVo responded to usb disconnection for a few weeks then, that stopped working.
Don't fight the force... just spend 10 bucks for a timer, do it now...
Problem solved. Well, worked around; anyway it works. My S3 has GC updates, every other day, and has been working fine since installing the TA timer.


Make sure to notify TiVo! of your problem, especially since you say that the TiVo with the problem is completely OEM.

Somewhere in this thread was a gentleman that proclaimed that this problem (related to tuning adapter) does not occur with 100% OEM machines... well at least 2 of us know better.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:00 AM   #493
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GC Fixed...for now at least

Got back last night from a holiday trip. I was gone for 8 days and decided to remove the timer while I was gone. I had an inking that my GC might work because the night before I left I had a GC update at 6:00 PM, but my timer is off from 5:00 - 9:00 AM.

Anyway, when I got home last night, my GC was current. So things are back to normal, after a month or so on a timer.

We'll see what happens from here on out.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:51 AM   #494
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Got back last night from a holiday trip. I was gone for 8 days and decided to remove the timer while I was gone. I had an inking that my GC might work because the night before I left I had a GC update at 6:00 PM, but my timer is off from 5:00 - 9:00 AM.

Anyway, when I got home last night, my GC was current. So things are back to normal, after a month or so on a timer.

We'll see what happens from here on out.
TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?

I'll take mine off the timer today and see what happens over the weekend...
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:18 AM   #495
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TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?......
EXACTLY !! The 12th of Never happened on the 12th Night of Christmas .

Seriously, DougJohnson above had the same thing happen to him. Hope you get lucky too.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:28 PM   #496
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TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?

I'll take mine off the timer today and see what happens over the weekend...
I doubt it. I've been watching the software version on my OLED S3 and it hasn't changed, nor has there been a spontaneous reboot.

My pet theory is that we experienced some transient that caused GC to get behind and not recover. A couple of forced GCs and things are good again.

I have been off the timer for 6 weeks and all is running fine. I have some suspicion that the intervals between GCs are getting longer, which might hint at trouble ahead. But I need to start a log to know for sure.

-- Doug
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:10 AM   #497
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TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?

I'll take mine off the timer today (30Dec2011) and see what happens over the weekend...

As of 1900 hrs 01Jan2012; my S3 had no GC update.
Put the tuning adapter back on the timer at that time.

As of 0800 hrs today; GC report date/time Mon 0341 hrs.
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:49 AM   #498
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As of 1900 hrs 01Jan2012; my S3 had no GC update.
Put the tuning adapter back on the timer at that time.

As of 0800 hrs today; GC report date/time Mon 0341 hrs.
You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #499
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I'm Still Waiting

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You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug
I got back last Thursday night and the GC was from Thursday morning. 4 days later, it's still at Thursday morning. Curious. I'll give it another day or two, but if no update it's back to the timer.

Maybe the problem is ME. My Tivo doesn't like it when I'm in the house.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:09 PM   #500
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You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug
Interesting observation. With t/a on timer GC occurs every other day on mine.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:23 AM   #501
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Timer, here we come AGAIN.

Well, it is now 6 days, STILL no new GC update. Going back on the timer. Very strange.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #502
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Well, it is now 6 days, STILL no new GC update. Going back on the timer. Very strange.
Indeed it is... mine, after a few days of having the t/a off the timer, got back to back (two days consecutive) GC updates. Usually with timer on t/a GC updates every other day.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:30 PM   #503
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Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily?

If it does change daily, but not your GC date then your GC is failing.

For me, I have 3 TAs on timers cutting power between 12:05 - 4:50 AM and I am getting daily GCs. (Usually done before 3 AM)
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #504
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Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily?
Yes, I have noticed the indexing occurs every day. GC every other day; usually in the 0300 hrs range.

T/A power off @ 0100; power on @ 0400 hrs daily.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:10 PM   #505
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Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily?

If it does change daily, but not your GC date then your GC is failing.

For me, I have 3 TAs on timers cutting power between 12:05 - 4:50 AM and I am getting daily GCs. (Usually done before 3 AM)
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Yes, I have noticed the indexing occurs every day. GC every other day; usually in the 0300 hrs range.

T/A power off @ 0100; power on @ 0400 hrs daily.
Yes, me too. The indexing occurs every day. When I first started the timer, I would get a GC every day, but then it would start to skip and be every other day. My timer is off for about 4 hours a day from 5:00 A.M. to 9:00 A.M.

I see that your timer is off about 5 hours a day. Maybe that's the difference. I'm not sure I have a reliable 5 hour window every single day that I could afford to have my TA off. I don't mind every other day - no big deal.

Edit: When I put it back on the timer today, I left it off until the GC update, since I had a good window of time. Took slightly over 4 hours. A call home was happening at the time I unplugged the TA - not sure if that had any impact on the GC time.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #506
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I see that your timer is off about 5 hours a day. Maybe that's the difference. I'm not sure I have a reliable 5 hour window every single day that I could afford to have my TA off. I don't mind every other day - no big deal.
I experimented with 4 hrs off daily and I was getting daily GC about 70-80% of the time.

Btw, you could turn your TA on/off multiple times a day. GC doesn't stop, it just slows to a crawl while TA is on. (disrupting recordings multiple times a day would be a major drawback for this option)


Like others, I also noticed that time required for GC changes over time. I would have expected this to affect all 3 THDs in sync, but that's not the case. One of my THDs may take 2 hrs a given day while the other 2 would complete in 3+ hours. Then a week later another one would get done quick while the others take longer.

Anyways, I've been pretty happy since putting TAs on timers; have not had to reboot my Tivos (60+ days), no more issues with guide running out or S03 errors.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #507
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I've had this problem off-and-on with my my upgraded S3 w/ TA. Rather than pull the cables, I decided to setup iptables on my router to cut the tivos off from the outside for most of the week. We'll see how that goes and whether it fixes my problem. Will report back on what I found.

*My HD has never seen this problem, but it isn't upgraded, nor does it have a TA.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:35 PM   #508
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I've had this problem off-and-on with my my upgraded S3 w/ TA. Rather than pull the cables, I decided to setup iptables on my router to cut the tivos off from the outside for most of the week. We'll see how that goes and whether it fixes my problem. Will report back on what I found.

*My HD has never seen this problem, but it isn't upgraded, nor does it have a TA.

Thanks so much for the tips here. SUCCESS! Setting up my router to cut off the tivo except for Wed & Sat fixed the problem. Everything has been working for the last couple of days w/o any fails.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:31 PM   #509
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Smile Running Normally

I first started having this problem in early October. With the help of this thread, I put my TA on a timer and everything went so well, I took the TA off the timer in the middle of November.

After two months, I am still running well without the timer. I get a GC every 18-36 hours. Indexing and cache updates are about the same frequency.

The only difference between October and now, that I am aware of, is my TiVo was very full in October. The "recently deleted" folder had one show in it, now it has 75.

-- Doug
S3 OLED, 1 TB, Motorola TA, Time Warner Cable in Dallas, Texas
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:55 AM   #510
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I added a timer to my TA today. Let's hope that fixes the program update issue. What's odd is that my 2nd HD TiVo with TA does NOT have any problems receiving the program updates - no timer needed for that one.
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