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Old 05-23-2011, 11:52 AM   #1
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Series3 Won't Boot After Upgrade

I've already searched around for this problem, but I haven't had much luck finding a solution, so I'm hoping someone here can help me.

I have a Series3 that used to randomly freeze and restart, which by all accounts seemed to indicate a bad hard drive. With the original drive, it would boot consistently though.

After researching replacement drives on here, I settled on a 1 TB Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS. I'm aware of the issue with recent drives and the "Intellipark", but I followed the steps to disable that feature before installing the drive in my TiVo. And I used InstantCake to set the drive up for the Series3.

However, the TiVo now behaves exactly as if there were no drive connected. It gets stuck at "Welcome! Powering Up..." screen, and all four front lights remain on, and the LCD shows the TiVo logo. I can never run the kickstart thing, because the lights never turn off, no matter how long I wait.

Someone had suggesting pulling the battery out for an hour and putting it back in, I tried that, but it didn't appear to make any difference.

I hope that someone here can help me out, because I'm completely stumped on this. Thanks for any help.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunookitsune View Post
I've already searched around for this problem, but I haven't had much luck finding a solution, so I'm hoping someone here can help me.

I have a Series3 that used to randomly freeze and restart, which by all accounts seemed to indicate a bad hard drive. With the original drive, it would boot consistently though.

After researching replacement drives on here, I settled on a 1 TB Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS. I'm aware of the issue with recent drives and the "Intellipark", but I followed the steps to disable that feature before installing the drive in my TiVo. And I used InstantCake to set the drive up for the Series3.

However, the TiVo now behaves exactly as if there were no drive connected. It gets stuck at "Welcome! Powering Up..." screen, and all four front lights remain on, and the LCD shows the TiVo logo. I can never run the kickstart thing, because the lights never turn off, no matter how long I wait.

Someone had suggesting pulling the battery out for an hour and putting it back in, I tried that, but it didn't appear to make any difference.

I hope that someone here can help me out, because I'm completely stumped on this. Thanks for any help.
Sounds like you still have the original drive that came with the Tivo and it's an upgraded drive that's failing? If so, download WinMFS and try to backup the original and then restore to the new 1TB. See if that's any better.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #3
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That is essentially correct. It is an upgraded drive that seems to be failing. However, I can no longer find the stock drive for the unit. I fear it may have gotten thrown away. As such, I can't back it up anymore. I don't know anyone with a Series3 either, so I can't pull an image from a different drive. I had used InstantCake the first time, because it seemed to simplify things, and came highly recommended.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:35 PM   #4
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Did you check the cables to make sure its fully seated into the drive?
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:25 PM   #5
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Check hard drive Jumper Settings. If I'm not mistaken I think it needs to be set to cable select before you put it back into the TiVo.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:33 PM   #6
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Check hard drive Jumper Settings. If I'm not mistaken I think it needs to be set to cable select before you put it back into the TiVo.
That only applied to older (non-HD) TiVos. All HD TiVos (Series3, TiVoHD, and Premiere) use SATA drives that do not rely on jumpers.

To the OP: If you're unable to find your original drive, I suggest trying InstantCake once more and see if that fixes the issue. You can also try WinMFS and see if it recognizes your new drive as a proper TiVo drive.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:18 AM   #7
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I did make sure the cable was seated properly, and I tried blowing the connectors out with canned air just to make sure no dust or anything was in the way. No luck there though.

I still have had no luck with locating the stock drive, so I'll try InstantCake again. I'll give WinMFS a shot too, but I'll have to pick up another SATA cable first for that.
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Old 05-24-2011, 08:18 AM   #8
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......I don't know anyone with a Series3 either, so I can't pull an image from a different drive. ........
No but there may still be someone who can help you:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=388695
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Old 05-24-2011, 08:28 AM   #9
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It looks like going through InstantCake again got it working. Not sure what happened the first time. I'm going to try getting it updated and then leave it running for a while to see if everything works. Thanks for the help!
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #10
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Can't boot after WinMFS upgrade to WD10EURX disk

I, too, tried to upgrade my stock Tivo S3 drive with a Western Digital AV-GP WD10EURX 1TB drive, using WinMFS. However, the new drive would not boot in the S3. It hung in the Welcome/powering up screen and I could tell there was no disk activity by pressing my ear to the disk - only a couple of clicks after disk spinup.

I ran wdidle3.exe to set the timeout to 5 min (wdidle3/S300), and also tried disabling the timeout completely (wdidle3/D). I also tried restoring the boot page with: 'Restore->BootPage' and 'Fix bootpage->Option 1 and 2'

Then I restored the new disk from the stock TiVo backup and that wouldn't boot, either. The original, stock disk still boots up fine, so there must be some issue with the settings on the new disk. It seems to work fine in the PC, but not in the TiVo. Any ideas?
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:12 PM   #11
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I, too, tried to upgrade my stock Tivo S3 drive with a Western Digital AV-GP WD10EURX 1TB drive, using WinMFS. However, the new drive would not boot in the S3. It hung in the Welcome/powering up screen and I could tell there was no disk activity by pressing my ear to the disk - only a couple of clicks after disk spinup.

I ran wdidle3.exe to set the timeout to 5 min (wdidle3/S300), and also tried disabling the timeout completely (wdidle3/D). I also tried restoring the boot page with: 'Restore->BootPage' and 'Fix bootpage->Option 1 and 2'

Then I restored the new disk from the stock TiVo backup and that wouldn't boot, either. The original, stock disk still boots up fine, so there must be some issue with the settings on the new disk. It seems to work fine in the PC, but not in the TiVo. Any ideas?
Start by getting the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on that 1TB.

Just because it's new doesn't absolutely guarantee nothing wrong with it.

And have a good close look at the capacitors in the TiVo's power supply while you''ve got the lid off.

If the drive passes the long test, get my HD image from the "don't PM me" thread, and restore it to the 1TB and see if that works.

Are you using a GigaByte brand motherboard by chance?
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #12
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Thanks for the suggestions, but still no luck. Here are the results:

- WD Lifeguard diagnostics quick and extended tests passed.
- No capacitor plague from visual inspection.
- PC: Dell Vostro 420 with motherboard model 0R038D
- Downloaded and restored image from 648250b.tbk
Tivo won't boot. Since others have had success, I feel like I'm missing something obvious relating to the boot sector. Does winMFS copy the boot sector(s)?
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:03 PM   #13
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It seems to work fine in the PC, but not in the TiVo. Any ideas?
Yeah, stop buying WD drives for Tivo! Especially the green/power saving versions (yes, I saw that yours was the AV model) - My S3 (OLED) and Premiere both have Samsung spinpoints - the S3's is almost three years old now (just checked the receipt - woah!) and buy far and away is a record from any of the 7 Tivo's I have owned since 2001. I have stacks of WD and Seagate's - very disappointing. Perhaps one of the WD apologists that will no doubt swoop in to tell me how wrong I am will buy it off of you.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:05 PM   #14
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Does winMFS copy the boot sector(s)?
winMFS handles everything automatically. Do you have another drive you can try, even if temporarily? Or do you have another similar Tivo you can try the drive in? That would narrow it down to being a hard drive issue vs. perhaps a failed winMFS session.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:11 PM   #15
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That is essentially correct. It is an upgraded drive that seems to be failing.
Did you try using MFS with that drive? Often the "failing" part is in the media partition, not the OS portions of the drive - so if you clone from your existing upgraded drive to your new drive with winMFS and do not opt to copy the shows, that may work better than Instacake.

I just read the thread again carefully and you may have done that - if so I apologize, it's not clear.

That drive (the newest one you are trying to get working and intend to leave installed in your Tivo) isn't an advanced format drive with the newer larger sectors, is it? Does it have a compatibility mode - maybe perhaps a jumper - you can try? It's getting harder and harder to find non-advanced format drives. That's the only thing I can readily think of right now.

Hmm, one other thing - when you got the drive was it completely new and unformatted? On a wild chance - you could use the WD utilities to initialize and blank the drive and re-do it with winMFS on the off, off chance that there was something funky left behind that winMFS didn't take care of - either before you first ran winMFS on it, or because you have redone the drive a couple of times already. I would be shocked, but then again I've seen stranger over the years so who knows....
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:32 PM   #16
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DocNo,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I restored the new disk from the stock TiVo backup and that wouldn't boot.
I Downloaded and restored the image from 648250b.tbk and that wouldn't boot.
The new drive came unformatted (from newegg), which I expected.
I don't have a spare SATA drive to try, but the WD diagnostics passed on the new drive.
The WD utilities don't have an 'initialize' option. From what I've read about WinMFS, it isn't necessary.

There are jumper pins on this new drive. Do I need to use them?
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #17
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DocNo,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I restored the new disk from the stock TiVo backup and that wouldn't boot.
I Downloaded and restored the image from 648250b.tbk and that wouldn't boot.
The new drive came unformatted (from newegg), which I expected.
I don't have a spare SATA drive to try, but the WD diagnostics passed on the new drive.
The WD utilities don't have an 'initialize' option. From what I've read about WinMFS, it isn't necessary.

There are jumper pins on this new drive. Do I need to use them?
Be sure you know what those pins are for before you jumper any of them.

It may be that that particular model drive and TiVos just don't get along.

Being called an AV drive isn't an automatic guarantee of TiVo compatiblility, since there are no "official" upgrades for TiVo internal drives.

See if it can be jumpered down from 6Gb/s to 3, or from 3 to 1.5
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:39 PM   #18
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'Advanced Format' drive

Unfortunately, the WD site doesn't have the jumper settings for this drive (WD10EURX), only the WD10EURS. The difference is that mine has the 'Advanced Format' option by default, and 6Gb/s vs 3Gb/s speed. There is info about using 'Advanced Format' with Linux here:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...RF9OWm5XNGw%3D

I sent a support request to WD to ask about this and get the jumper settings to see if it can be disabled.

Peter


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Be sure you know what those pins are for before you jumper any of them.

It may be that that particular model drive and TiVos just don't get along.

Being called an AV drive isn't an automatic guarantee of TiVo compatiblility, since there are no "official" upgrades for TiVo internal drives.

See if it can be jumpered down from 6Gb/s to 3, or from 3 to 1.5

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Old 08-30-2012, 01:34 PM   #19
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Unfortunately, the WD site doesn't have the jumper settings for this drive (WD10EURX), only the WD10EURS. The difference is that mine has the 'Advanced Format' option by default, and 6Gb/s vs 3Gb/s speed. There is info about using 'Advanced Format' with Linux here:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...RF9OWm5XNGw%3D

I sent a support request to WD to ask about this and get the jumper settings to see if it can be disabled.

Peter

Here's some wd info on installation and jumpers in general including 6 gbs and advanced format drives

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...hqT180bA%3D%3D
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #20
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Here's some wd info on installation and jumpers in general including 6 gbs and advanced format drives

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...hqT180bA%3D%3D
It looks like jumpering 7 & 8 is only intended for XP installs, and only on certain models, so who knows what, if anything, it would do in other circumstances.

Probably better avoided.

If TiVo drives needed spread spectrum clocking, I think we would have heard about it by now, so jumpering 1 & 2 should probably also be avoided.

Apparently jumpering 5 & 6, to perhaps slow it down to the transfer rate of the TiVo motherboard's SATA port, can be done without the drive catching fire or spinning backwards or whatever, so it's worth a try.

And of course it should be noted that all of the above only applies to Western Digital brand hard drives.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #21
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I tried jumpering 5&6 (figuring that out was a challenge because the pins weren't labelled and the diagram on the WD site looked like an IDE drive). The drive still would not boot.

I decided to temporarily decommission a WD3200AAKS (320GB) drive from my PC, copied the same image to it, and that worked in the TiVo! Of course, it's capacity is not much bigger than the stock drive, and it's not designed for DVRs, so I won't use it in the TiVo.

So far, it seems the WD10EURX is incompatible with the S3

Peter

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It looks like jumpering 7 & 8 is only intended for XP installs, and only on certain models, so who knows what, if anything, it would do in other circumstances.

Probably better avoided.

If TiVo drives needed spread spectrum clocking, I think we would have heard about it by now, so jumpering 1 & 2 should probably also be avoided.

Apparently jumpering 5 & 6, to perhaps slow it down to the transfer rate of the TiVo motherboard's SATA port, can be done without the drive catching fire or spinning backwards or whatever, so it's worth a try.

And of course it should be noted that all of the above only applies to Western Digital brand hard drives.

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Old 08-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #22
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I tried jumpering 5&6 (figuring that out was a challenge because the pins weren't labelled and the diagram on the WD site looked like an IDE drive). The drive still would not boot.

I decided to temporarily decommission a WD3200AAKS (320GB) drive from my PC, copied the same image to it, and that worked in the TiVo! Of course, it's capacity is not much bigger than the stock drive, and it's not designed for DVRs, so I won't use it in the TiVo.

So far, it seems the WD10EURX is incompatible with the S3

Peter
I'm beginning to suspect that none of the current models are compatible, although I don't know if it's an AF thing or a failure of speed autonegotiation or both or what, although I think that the OP's EVDS should have worked.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:08 PM   #23
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Response from WD

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I'm beginning to suspect that none of the current models are compatible, although I don't know if it's an AF thing or a failure of speed autonegotiation or both or what, although I think that the OP's EVDS should have worked.
Here is the reply I received from WD regarding the jumper settings:

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Even though the drive model numbers are not exactly the same, you can still use the jumper settings shows in the PDF file for the WD10EURS drive. The jumper configuration are the same for all the internal hard drive models.

Link: http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...h/1/a_id/5473#

In your case, the issue is most likely related to the advance format configuration on the drive. The DVR may not be able to identify this format solution and the drive will not mount. Even with the alignment tool, the physical sectors on the drive will remain the same (4K). The alignment process only create an emulated 512 B logical sector divisions, but if the drive was not identifiable before this, most likely it will not mount even if you realign the sector counts.

If you would still like to try the alignment process, you can download the utility from the following web link:

How to use the Acronis Alignment Tool to realign an Advanced Format drive
Link: http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...QlVRajZsNWw%3D

If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.

Here is my reply to WD:

I have tried running the WD Align tool from both windows and from a boot CD, but the new disk does not show up, only the other disks, which the tool says are already properly aligned. The new disk does show up as 'disk0' in the Win7 disk management tool, however.

However, from what you said earlier, the drive would probably not mount even after alignment.
So, I would like to return this drive.

- Can you help me with instructions for returning this drive?
- Can you recommend any internal 1TB SATA drives that will work with TiVo?
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:33 PM   #24
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If anyone's reported success with any of the new WD drives that end in X, I haven't seen that report, so I'd look for something older, preferably 3Gb/s instead of 6, just to eliminate another variable.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #25
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Reply from WD :
In regards to the compatibility of our internal hard drives with your TiVO device, it would be best to contact TiVO support for this information. We do not test the drives in the these kinds of devices, we only run tests on computer systems.

TiVO should be able to provide a compatibility list of the various internal hard drives from the different manufacturers that they have tested and use in the devices the make. This is the only way to guarantee that the next hard drive you purchase will work with your TiVO player.


I'm considering buying this drive WD10EVVS, which 'dprice' said worked in this recent post from 9/1:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...70784&page=299
Any comments are welcome.

BTW, the reason I'm trying to update the internal drive is that I've had 2 WD DVR expanders fail over the last 6 years. Although this seems to be higher than average MTBF, the internal drive upgrade appeals to me for these reasons: lower cost, no extra enclosure + transformer, and presumably more reliable.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:33 AM   #26
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Reply from WD :
In regards to the compatibility of our internal hard drives with your TiVO device, it would be best to contact TiVO support for this information. We do not test the drives in the these kinds of devices, we only run tests on computer systems.

TiVO should be able to provide a compatibility list of the various internal hard drives from the different manufacturers that they have tested and use in the devices the make. This is the only way to guarantee that the next hard drive you purchase will work with your TiVO player.
Ha! Good luck with that.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:28 PM   #27
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If anyone's reported success with any of the new WD drives that end in X, I haven't seen that report, so I'd look for something older, preferably 3Gb/s instead of 6, just to eliminate another variable.
I just replaced the stock hard drive for an S3 and a HD with the Western Digital AV-GP WD3200AUDX 320GB IntelliPower 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s.

WinMFS would'nt even see these drives by usb, but was able to see them when connected directly to the motherboard. I don't know if it was necessary, but I tried jumpering 7 and 8 and left the jumper there when putting the drives into tivo. I'm running XP pro 32 bit. For the S3 I restored a backup, and when it booted I ran clear and delete everything. It took a whlie, but eventually cleared and got me to guided setup. For the tivo hd, I made a complete backup. It took almost 2 hours to copy, but booted up in the tivo hd with no problems. In both cases I added the space when prompted, supersized, and ran wdidle3 /D. I didn't jumper 5 and 6 to limit SATA to 3.0Gb/s.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:36 PM   #28
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I just replaced the stock hard drive for an S3 and a HD with the Western Digital AV-GP WD3200AUDX 320GB IntelliPower 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s.

WinMFS would'nt even see these drives by usb, but was able to see them when connected directly to the motherboard. I don't know if it was necessary, but I tried jumpering 7 and 8 and left the jumper there when putting the drives into tivo. I'm running XP pro 32 bit. For the S3 I restored a backup, and when it booted I ran clear and delete everything. It took a whlie, but eventually cleared and got me to guided setup. For the tivo hd, I made a complete backup. It took almost 2 hours to copy, but booted up in the tivo hd with no problems. In both cases I added the space when prompted, supersized, and ran wdidle3 /D. I didn't jumper 5 and 6 to limit SATA to 3.0Gb/s.

Maybe it's a combination of being 1TB or larger and having the X.

Does the label on your drive say anything about advanced format?
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Maybe it's a combination of being 1TB or larger and having the X.

Does the label on your drive say anything about advanced format?
Just looked at the label and it says advanced format and suggests visiting www.wdc/advformat. This website states that:

Early 3.5-inch WD drives with Advanced Format supported jumper pins 7 – 8. Placing a jumper on these pins adjusted the drive’s internal alignment for single partition XP installations. Support for this jumper setting is no longer needed on newer drives.

So my jumpering is probably useless.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:07 PM   #30
DocNo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
It looks like jumpering 7 & 8 is only intended for XP installs, and only on certain models, so who knows what, if anything, it would do in other circumstances.
any time you see "compatibility mode" or "xp install" your dealing with an advanced format drive

If it didn't work with 'em jumpered, jumper them and re-do the MFS restore. It can't hurt
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