TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2012, 09:39 PM   #181
MichaelK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone. Comcasts network isn't doing anything different, and Tivo's in SF are no different than Tivo's sold anywhere else, so an update for them would work for everyone. There's zero reason to have a "test market", unless you have no plans to ever move out of it.

The whole thing screams "this is just a red herring so Comcast can show the FCC they are "working with other set top box providers" to get the FCC off their back and it's never going beyond SF and will be dead in a few years". The optimist in me want's to be wrong, but the realist in me can't ignore what we're seeing.

Artificial lmitations placed on feature rollouts are never a good sign. Limiting the rollout to SF for no reason does not bode well for anyone not living in SF.

be careful your tin foil hat doesn't cut the circulation off to your face.

kidding aside- maybe you want to give them a few weeks or a month after they turn on San Francisco before you get all riled up that it's a conspiracy?

it's entirely possible that you are correct (certainly wouldn't be the first thing Tivo announced that never showed up, nor would it be the first thing that comcast and tivo tried that never got past the trial market) but it's also entirely possible that you are getting all riled up over nothing.

I'll reserve judgement for at least a little while.
MichaelK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:15 PM   #182
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone. Comcasts network isn't doing anything different, and Tivo's in SF are no different than Tivo's sold anywhere else, so an update for them would work for everyone. There's zero reason to have a "test market", unless you have no plans to ever move out of it.

The whole thing screams "this is just a red herring so Comcast can show the FCC they are "working with other set top box providers" to get the FCC off their back and it's never going beyond SF and will be dead in a few years". The optimist in me want's to be wrong, but the realist in me can't ignore what we're seeing.

Artificial lmitations placed on feature rollouts are never a good sign. Limiting the rollout to SF for no reason does not bode well for anyone not living in SF.
I disagree. Tivo is not known for their reliability and there may be hundreds of bugs that they are unaware of. Comcast is smart to test this out in one market first.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!

Last edited by aadam101 : 04-05-2012 at 10:43 PM.
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:31 PM   #183
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone. Comcasts network isn't doing anything different,...
And you know this how?
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:45 PM   #184
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
And you know this how?
I don't know anything about cable systems but I do know that Comcast built their empire by buying up smaller cable systems. I would think they are working with lots of different equipment among markets.

We already know that Comcast isn't the same across the board. We constantly hear from posters stating that Comcast does one thing in one market and a completely different thing in another.

That's why I like FIOS. It's all the same everywhere.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:53 PM   #185
weldon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone. Comcasts network isn't doing anything different
Having worked in cable some years ago, that doesn't sound at all true to me. Those networks have grown by acquisition and there is different equipment from different vendors in different head ends in different markets. I'm sure there's equipment that has to be installed and configured in the head end and the ops team that manages those systems are regionalized and very conservative about introducing new equipment into running systems.
weldon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:51 AM   #186
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone.
You're underestimating the engineering. This isn't IP like Xfinity on Xbox, it's IP communication with QAM video. Which does require technological work in each Comcast market. The San Francisco region happens to be one of Comcast's largest markets and the fact that TiVo is physically present probably doesn't hurt. I'm hopeful we'll see other markets come online later this year. But who knows...
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:32 AM   #187
champsf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1
Yes there is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
There's zero reason to have a "test market", unless you have no plans to ever move out of it.
Coming from a technology company completely different, I can assure you that there is reasons for having test markets. 2 reasons....

1) Rolling out updates to so many users can cause issues on a server level. By having it released to test markets they can assure when they roll it out to the world (slowly), it wont have an extreme effect on all users or their system.

2) Customer complaints and a support level. Could you imagine the volume of support calls they would receive, both Comcast and TiVo if there were problems? If there were issues, and they have to roll back the release for some reason it would affect a higher volume of people.

Consider San Francisco the Guinea Pigs. If its broken we get the frustration of dealing with the problems rather than the rest of the world.
champsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #188
tomhorsley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by champsf View Post
If its broken we get the frustration of dealing with the problems rather than the rest of the world.
"If" its broken? :-).
tomhorsley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:53 PM   #189
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 17,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadam101 View Post
Tivo is not known for their reliability
Really?

What specifically are you talking about?

For their primary purpose, actually recording shows that people want to record, they are definitely more reliable than other DVRs.

I even say this as someone who has a dead S3, but I don't think that's a counterexample to what I say above. Mine was hacked, and if I had never opened it, who knows, maybe it would have lasted longer.

But for "recording shows", they "just work". I wish there were others that worked as well (especially more tuners/cheaper).
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #190
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Really?

What specifically are you talking about?

For their primary purpose, actually recording shows that people want to record, they are definitely more reliable than other DVRs.

I even say this as someone who has a dead S3, but I don't think that's a counterexample to what I say above. Mine was hacked, and if I had never opened it, who knows, maybe it would have lasted longer.

But for "recording shows", they "just work". I wish there were others that worked as well (especially more tuners/cheaper).
That's all well and good but we are not talking about recording shows. We are talking about offering Video On Demand. There have been lots of issues with the Amazon and Netflix apps over the years.....some that still exist and nobody bothers to fix them.

Many of the Tivo software releases have been plagued with bugs. The Premiere is a perfect example. It was released before it was ready and it took Tivo a long time to work out the issues. My Premieres still aren't perfect but they are a lot better than they were when I got them.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 01:30 AM   #191
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadam101 View Post
I don't know anything about cable systems but I do know that Comcast built their empire by buying up smaller cable systems. I would think they are working with lots of different equipment among markets.

We already know that Comcast isn't the same across the board. We constantly hear from posters stating that Comcast does one thing in one market and a completely different thing in another.

That's why I like FIOS. It's all the same everywhere.
Why did you quote me rather than emkorial? I agree with you (at least on this particular point).
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #192
jmr50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
And probably the last. There's no technological barrier to releasing this to everyone. Comcasts network isn't doing anything different, and Tivo's in SF are no different than Tivo's sold anywhere else, so an update for them would work for everyone. There's zero reason to have a "test market", unless you have no plans to ever move out of it.
That's complete and utter ******** fearmongering.

Verizon rolled out IMG 1.9 to a single market to get field experience. They did multiple releases to that market before expanding to others in a staged rollout. That's how large service providers roll out new things that change the user experience and expectations.
jmr50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #193
kpeters59
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
If anybody cares, (Like TiVo!) I'm a Tivo dealer and the BIGGEST obstacle I have switching clients from a Comcast DVR (if you can really call it that...) is VOD. This is what I'm waiting on for many clients. Including former Tivo users.

I'm in the Houston market...(Hint, Hint)

Happy Easter!

-KP
kpeters59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 05:51 PM   #194
LisaJaco
Registered User
 
LisaJaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpeters59 View Post
If anybody cares, (Like TiVo!) I'm a Tivo dealer and the BIGGEST obstacle I have switching clients from a Comcast DVR (if you can really call it that...) is VOD. This is what I'm waiting on for many clients. Including former Tivo users.

I'm in the Houston market...(Hint, Hint)

Happy Easter!

-KP
Consider me one of those clients. I am/was a former TiVo user, in fact, I still have a dead unit sitting here with a lifetime subscription, but I'm using the Comcast DVR because there's no TiVo VOD as of yet. I keep coming back to check this board to see when it's happening because the second it does, i'm switching back!
LisaJaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 10:11 PM   #195
jonbig
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr50 View Post
That's complete and utter ******** fearmongering.

Verizon rolled out IMG 1.9 to a single market to get field experience. They did multiple releases to that market before expanding to others in a staged rollout. That's how large service providers roll out new things that change the user experience and expectations.
Quite so. The purpose of a limited roll out is this:

To avoid having Comcast customer service being overwhelmed.

Any roll out of software like this has a potential to reveal unexpected problems. By having a limited roll out, Comcast can concentrate its training of customer service reps to those who will serve the roll out area, and reduce the likely-hood that there are any issues that would turn rolling out to their entire customer base into a disaster.
jonbig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 10:56 PM   #196
emkorial
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by champsf View Post
Coming from a technology company completely different, I can assure you that there is reasons for having test markets. 2 reasons....

1) Rolling out updates to so many users can cause issues on a server level. By having it released to test markets they can assure when they roll it out to the world (slowly), it wont have an extreme effect on all users or their system.

2) Customer complaints and a support level. Could you imagine the volume of support calls they would receive, both Comcast and TiVo if there were problems? If there were issues, and they have to roll back the release for some reason it would affect a higher volume of people.

Consider San Francisco the Guinea Pigs. If its broken we get the frustration of dealing with the problems rather than the rest of the world.

I meant in this specific case.

Comcast isn't changing anything on their end. The aren't going to be sending one signal to every non Tivo user and a special "Tivo signal" to people with Tivo's. It's all the same to them.

The change is on the Tivo side, and I'd be willing to bet Tivo has some test units to test one. And every Tivo is the same. A premier in SF is identical to a premiere in NYC which is identical to a premier in Miami. It if works, it works everywhere, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work anywhere.

*Maybe* I'd buy that there will be billing issues integrating between Comcast and Tivo that they want time to work out, but that's about it. I sure hope I'm wrong, I would gladly upgrade both of my Tivo HD's to Premiers if I could get On Demand, but looking at it objectively, and given the history of collaborative efforts between the two companies, I don't see it.

Another huge red flag is that there is ZERO indication on timing for the next "test" market. Just "in the future". No company operates that way at Comcasts or Tivos level. No benchmarks at all around timing? Not even a YEAR it will be available outside SF?

Hopefully I'll be eating crow on this one, but I don;t see it happening.
emkorial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 11:03 PM   #197
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
I meant in this specific case.

Comcast isn't changing anything on their end. The aren't going to be sending one signal to every non Tivo user and a special "Tivo signal" to people with Tivo's. It's all the same to them.
Comcast most certainly is changing something on their end. Their STBs, including their DVRs are two-way devices. A TiVo, even with cable card, is not. That's why for a TiVo, the control has to be through the net.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:10 PM   #198
ghuido
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 311
Well I guess it is official ...

http://blog.tivo.com/2012/04/xfinity...tivo-premiere/

http://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign

Now could someone please post a Picture of what it looks like or a review .... not that I am begging or anything.
ghuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:14 PM   #199
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghuido View Post
Now could someone please post a Picture of what it looks like or a review .... not that I am begging or anything.
Yeah, I'm waiting to blog the launch until after I've seen some feedback from "real" users...
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:16 PM   #200
tomm1079
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz View Post
Yeah, I'm waiting to blog the launch until after I've seen some feedback from "real" users...
you are a real user!

post away
tomm1079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:20 PM   #201
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomm1079 View Post
you are a real user!

post away
I may be a real user, but I live in the wrong market to experience it first hand. It's probably kinder of me to wait for forum reviews then to impose upon my friends by accessing Bay Area TiVos via Slingbox. Not to mention that latency is a killer for this kind of task.
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:47 PM   #202
beejay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post

Hopefully I'll be eating crow on this one, but I don;t see it happening.
I'd sure take that $10,000 bet.
__________________
S2 - 1077 hours
S2 - 86 hours
S1 - 344 hours
S2DT - 186 hours

"For some people, even 10 TiVo DVRs is not overkill."
TiVoOpsMgr
Director, Svc. Ops

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
beejay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #203
ghuido
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz View Post
I may be a real user, but I live in the wrong market to experience it first hand. It's probably kinder of me to wait for forum reviews then to impose upon my friends by accessing Bay Area TiVos via Slingbox. Not to mention that latency is a killer for this kind of task.
You just want to make us beg, admit it.
ghuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 12:59 AM   #204
kerz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 22
I'm a real user! Pics: https://plus.google.com/photos/11835...15166045498785

Feedback:
Sort of seems like a HME app, but it can't be, because it feels fast, and doesn't take two years to load. It does take 5-10 seconds sometimes when going from the HD UI to the VOD menu, but once loaded seems fairly snappy navigating the menus.

Fonts in places are kinda strange, as if it's falling back to some sort of crappy linux font, rather than the nicer anti-aliased TiVo ones ("Press INFO for options" and show titles on the detail screen for example).

Has a saved shows folder for things you've watched. Programs you've watched icon is the same as the 'going away soon' icon it seems, other than being a half shade of yellow different.

Fast forwarding is locked (at least on the one show I tried). I haven't had a Comcast box in a long time, but I don't remember this being the case there. Sucky.

No different channels for the various sub-groups of On Demand, just one main screen linking to them all. A bit messy, but nice to not have to hunt around.

Video quality seems pretty good, a bit of macroblocking at times. Better than streaming Netflix most of the time.

UI feels like a strange cross between HD and SD. Has the new show detail screen, but something seems off. TiVo guy looks stretched maybe?

Let me know if you have questions.
__________________
* Sony Series 1
* Sony Series 2 x 2
* TiVo Series 2 40 hour
* TiVo Series 2 DT 80 hour
* TiVo Series 3 x2
* TiVo Premier Elite
kerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 07:14 AM   #205
ldhurley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 30
Netflix picture quality plus ease of use on my Samsung TV app and my Panasonic Blu Ray app are so superior than through TIVO. There is no comparison plus since you can only add to instant que through another source in order to view on TIVO the TIVO application is worthless.
ldhurley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 07:31 AM   #206
takeshi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
The change is on the Tivo side, and I'd be willing to bet Tivo has some test units to test one. And every Tivo is the same. A premier in SF is identical to a premiere in NYC which is identical to a premier in Miami. It if works, it works everywhere, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work anywhere.
Not necessarily. Again, you're oversimplifying and assuming. Everything seems simple when you're blissfully unaware of the details involved. Upon initial setup, my Tivo had constant reboot issues which turned out to be related to Comcast's network specifically in my area. While my issue may not be germane to this particular discussion there are always small details to iron out which, again, is the whole point of test rollouts. Just because you can't imagine any potential issues doesn't mean that they do not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Why did you quote me rather than emkorial? I agree with you (at least on this particular point).
Quoting isn't just used for disagreement. It's also used to build on a former comment (as in this case).

Last edited by takeshi : 04-11-2012 at 07:36 AM.
takeshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 07:42 AM   #207
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkorial View Post
Comcast isn't changing anything on their end.
Wrong.
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:06 AM   #208
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerz View Post
Awesome, thank you! Post is up. Wish I was a Comcast subscriber...
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:52 AM   #209
ghuido
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 311
Here are my questions

1.) Did you need a reboot or was it just there?
2.) What Software Version is your TIVO Reporting now?
3.) How does the pay per view work? Does it show you the price?
4.) For the paid premium items (HBO/Showtime)? does it show unathorized if you don't have it?
5.) The screenshots show Dolby 5.1? Is it pumping out the audio at that level?
ghuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #210
kerz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghuido View Post
Here are my questions

1.) Did you need a reboot or was it just there?
Called in a few times, then rebooted. Following that I got an N33 error for about a minute, so I fiddled with switching from NPL to Live, finally went a way. After that, it was in the list.

Quote:
2.) What Software Version is your TIVO Reporting now?
20.2.0a-01-2-758

Quote:
3.) How does the pay per view work? Does it show you the price?
4.) For the paid premium items (HBO/Showtime)? does it show unathorized if you don't have it?
5.) The screenshots show Dolby 5.1? Is it pumping out the audio at that level?
I didn't play enough with it to answer these well. I was able to play something off HBO, so it does work if you have the channel. There's a picture in the album of what it looks like when you're not authorized to play something.
__________________
* Sony Series 1
* Sony Series 2 x 2
* TiVo Series 2 40 hour
* TiVo Series 2 DT 80 hour
* TiVo Series 3 x2
* TiVo Premier Elite
kerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |