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Old 12-26-2015, 04:46 PM   #1
JohnB1000
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Doctor Who 12/25/15 "Husbands of River Song"

I enjoyed that much more than I expected to based on previews. Loved all the obvious parts. Not a big River fan but still good.

Interesting that she came here straight from the Manhattan episode yet had a picture of the War Doctor. Didn't make much sense that she kept ignoring him calling himself The Doctor.

A direct quote from 2008’s "Forest Of The Dead," River says:

“The last time I saw you, you turned up on my doorstep with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the Singing Towers. What a night that was; the towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn’t tell me why, but I suppose you knew it was my time… You even gave me your screwdriver - that should have been a clue.”

Here's the Doctor/River timeline




1. A Good Man Goes to War (2011) – Melody Pond is born
2. The Impossible Astronaut (2011) – young Melody is raised in an orphanage
3. Day of the Moon (2011) – Melody regenerates into Mels
4. Let's Kill Hitler (2011) – Mels regenerates into River
5. Closing Time (2011) – River gets her doctorate, is kidnapped by the Silence
6. The Wedding of River Song/The Impossible Astronaut (2011)– River breaks time, marries the Doctor and then helps heal it for the events of The Impossible Astronaut
7. First Night (minisode, 2011) – River is incarcerated for the murder of the Doctor, but goes on her first evening trip with him
8. Last Night (minisode, 2011) – a version of Ricer from five years in the future interacts with her younger self
9. A Good Man Goes to War (2011)
10. The Impossible Astronaut (2011)
11. Day of the Moon (2011)
12. The Pandorica Opens (2010)
13. The Big Bang (2010) – River helps the Doctor save the universe
14. Time of the Angels (2010)
15. Flesh and Stone (2010)
16. Wedding of River Song (2011) – River visits her parents Amy and Rory in their garden
17. Last Night (minisode, 2011) – an older version of River is heading to the towers of Darillium with the Doctor, but he apparently later backs out
18. The Angels Take Manhattan (2012) – River sees her parents trapped in the past
19. The Husbands of River Song (2015) – River teams up with the Twelfth Doctor but doesn’t recognise him
20. Silence in the Library (2008) – River meets the Tenth Doctor, who hasn’t met her yet
21. Forest of the Dead (2008) – River dies, but the Tenth Doctor “saves” her as a data ghost
22. The Name of the Doctor (2013) – River’s data ghost finally says goodbye to the Eleventh Doctor

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Old 12-26-2015, 06:10 PM   #2
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I liked it, but then I've always liked the River Song character. This was a good episode that filled in the last gap in her timeline. Lots of good lines in the episode and I liked how the Doctor got the restaurant build and made 4 year in advance reservations in the course of a few minutes.

Thanks for the timeline. I had thought we had seen her going to the restaurant with the 11th Doctor, but I didn't remember him backing out in that case.

I guess this really will be the last time we see River since she wasn't aware of any Doctor's other than the first 11 and this is the last time she sees the Doctor before she meets up with the 10th. Odd though that she goes another 24 years without seeing him again.

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Old 12-26-2015, 06:36 PM   #3
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I thought this was a very good episode!! I'm still not too crazy about Capaldi's Dr and most of this season's episodes were, to me, only OK. But I thoroughly enjoyed this and I always liked the River Song character!

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Old 12-26-2015, 08:29 PM   #4
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Odd though that she goes another 24 years without seeing him again.
I assumed they spent those 24 years together.

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Old 12-26-2015, 09:43 PM   #5
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I assumed they spent those 24 years together.
That was what I took from it for sure.

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Old 12-26-2015, 11:14 PM   #6
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I liked it, but then I've always liked the River Song character.
I liked her the best...
Spoiler:
... like this

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Old 12-26-2015, 11:28 PM   #7
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I liked her the best...
Spoiler:
... like this
I'm guessing you were going for a joke, but I don't get it. That photo is of another character altogether.

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Old 12-26-2015, 11:28 PM   #8
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The doctor was much better in this episode. I think may speak volumes to the lack of sync between Clara and The Doctor.

Why not have Zombie Clara and River switch places in the Library?

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Old 12-27-2015, 12:16 AM   #9
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I love any good River Song episode and this was a good River Song ep.

I feel the need to rewatch Silence in the Library after this. I am sad that this is likely the last time we'll see River (if this is her last night, and she didn't recognize the Doctor). I guess I should be happy to put her in the same group as Donna Noble who I love and they took out of circulation on top.

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Old 12-27-2015, 12:50 AM   #10
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I really like the way Capaldi is playing the Doctor now.

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Old 12-27-2015, 06:49 AM   #11
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Rumors have been flying for months now that Steven Moffat may be done with the show now, and that Chris Chibnall might be replacing him...

One version
(Also contains some casting rumors)

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Old 12-27-2015, 10:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by whoknows55 View Post
I love any good River Song episode and this was a good River Song ep.

I feel the need to rewatch Silence in the Library after this. I am sad that this is likely the last time we'll see River (if this is her last night, and she didn't recognize the Doctor). I guess I should be happy to put her in the same group as Donna Noble who I love and they took out of circulation on top.
This episode depicts when the Doctor gave her the sonic screwdriver she used in Silence in the Library (as mentioned in the quote posted by JohnB1000).

A gift with fundamental significance.

Spoilers from Forest of the Dead, sequel to Silence in the Library.
Spoiler:
[Staircase]

(The Doctor puts River's diary on the balcony rail.)
DONNA: Your friend, Professor Song. She knew you in the future, but she didn't know me. What happens to me? Because when she heard my name, the way she looked at me.
DOCTOR: Donna, this is her diary. My future. I could look you up. What do you think? Shall we peek at the end?
DONNA: Spoilers, right?
DOCTOR: Right.
(He puts River's sonic screwdriver on the diary.)
DOCTOR: Come on. The next chapter's this way.
(They walk back up the stairs.)
RIVER [OC]: When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run for ever. Everybody knows that everybody dies, and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever, for one moment, accepts it.
(The Doctor runs back for the screwdriver.)
DOCTOR: Why? Why would I give her my screwdriver? Why would I do that? Thing is, future me had years to think about it, all those years to think of a way to save her, and what he did was give her a screwdriver. Why would I do that?
(Because it also contains a neural relay, which has two green lights on it.)
DOCTOR: Oh! Oh! Oh, look at that. I'm very good!
DONNA: What have you done?
DOCTOR: Saved her.

[Stacks]

(The Doctor is running as one green light goes out.)
DOCTOR: Stay with me! You can do it, stay with me! Come on, you and me, one last run!

[Reading room]

DOCTOR: Sorry, River, shortcut!
COMPUTER: Platform disabled. (The Doctor dives into the gravity well. The last light is blinking.)

[Data core]

RIVER [OC]: Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day.
(The Doctor plugs the screwdriver into the core, and her neural energy is transferred.)
RIVER [OC]: Not today.
(Charlotte Node smiles.)

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Old 12-27-2015, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I thought this was a very good episode!! I'm still not too crazy about Capaldi's Dr and most of this season's episodes were, to me, only OK. But I thoroughly enjoyed this and I always liked the River Song character!
I've really enjoyed this season's shows and felt that they were really getting in sync with the writing and Capaldi's Doctor compared to last season.

And I enjoyed this episode as well!

Scott

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Old 12-27-2015, 11:20 AM   #14
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This episode depicts when the Doctor gave her the sonic screwdriver she used in Silence in the Library (as mentioned in the quote posted by JohnB1000). A gift with fundamental significance. Spoilers from Forest of the Dead, sequel to Silence in the Library. * SPOILER *
Okay. Something that actually happened in a previous episode is not a spoiler.

Although I can fully understand the timey wimey confusion. 😄

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Old 12-27-2015, 11:46 AM   #15
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I'm guessing you were going for a joke, but I don't get it. That photo is of another character altogether.
And not even that other character, but someone cosplaying her, from the looks of it.

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Old 12-27-2015, 03:31 PM   #16
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One thing I can't get out of my head regarding this episode (which I otherwise loved):

Doesn't this episode contradict the "minisode" "Last Night",which was included in the DVDs from the Matt Smith era (and written by Moffat, iirc)? In "Last Night", it was Doctor #11 who took River to the Singing Towers, not #12...

It's hard to find Last Night online (it seems all the copies on YouTube have been deleted, even though the other 4 minisodes of Night and the Doctor are readily available), but I did find this one:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=564924806941708

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Old 12-27-2015, 04:05 PM   #17
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One thing I can't get out of my head regarding this episode (which I otherwise loved):

Doesn't this episode contradict the "minisode" "Last Night",which was included in the DVDs from the Matt Smith era (and written by Moffat, iirc)? In "Last Night", it was Doctor #11 who took River to the Singing Towers, not #12...

It's hard to find Last Night online (it seems all the copies on YouTube have been deleted, even though the other 4 minisodes of Night and the Doctor are readily available), but I did find this one:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=564924806941708
It suggests that although 11 and River were headed there, he never actually made it on that date, that he canceled on her.

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Old 12-27-2015, 07:50 PM   #18
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It suggests that although 11 and River were headed there, he never actually made it on that date, that he canceled on her.
River outright says that. Even says it happened more than once.

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Old 12-27-2015, 09:42 PM   #19
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I re-watched the 2 library episodes today, I'd forgotten how they ended. Might get around to assembling the River Song saga, the episodes in order based on her timeline, and watch them back to back.

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Old 12-28-2015, 08:25 AM   #20
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I re-watched the 2 library episodes today, I'd forgotten how they ended. Might get around to assembling the River Song saga, the episodes in order based on her timeline, and watch them back to back.
Back around the Wedding of River Song, I rewatched all the River episodes up to that time. It was a good way to see her.

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Old 12-28-2015, 01:03 PM   #21
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I've been binge watching the Doctor Who Marathon on BBCA to catch up as best as I can.
I had been up to (I think) one season of David Tennant.

I amazed that every episode I sample is momentous. I'm up to Under the Lake, having skipped most of Matt Smith.

I learned:
  • Every major event happens at Christmas.
  • Nobody dead is ever really dead.
  • The Master, The Daleks and the Cybermen are never done in. (I wondered where I recognized "Missy" from. The Brink. She's wonderfully evil.)
  • The companion's BF is always Black.
  • Continuing PC, we have a female-female married couple (one a lizard) living in Victorian Times.
  • Clara Oswald seems to live at all times and rise from the dead. (Is the first time she appears the one as the bar girl?)

I loved "You named a horror movie 'Alien?' How rude. No wonder you keep getting invaded."

Inception dream within a dream in a dream with the touch of Alien.

"The Husbands of River Song" The detachable head can park on the Man in the Moon.

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Old 12-28-2015, 05:49 PM   #22
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Thanks, Tony and LoadStar. I'd forgotten that (important) detail!

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Old 12-28-2015, 06:13 PM   #23
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  • The companion's BF is always Black.
  • Continuing PC, we have a female-female married couple (one a lizard) living in Victorian Times.
Yeah, Rory is Black. The one thing I love about this show and British tv shows (that I watch) is that they do a lot more color blind casting than US tv.

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Old 12-28-2015, 06:20 PM   #24
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Yeah, Rory is Black. The one thing I love about this show and British tv shows (that I watch) is that they do a lot more color blind casting than US tv.
Ianto wasn't black either.

I know, he was barely in Doctor who but he was captain Jack's boyfriend.

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Old 12-28-2015, 06:21 PM   #25
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Thanks, Tony and LoadStar. I'd forgotten that (important) detail!
Lots to keep track of.

I'm impressed that they didn't mess up the River/Doctor timelines.

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Old 12-28-2015, 06:42 PM   #26
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I amazed that every episode I sample is momentous. I'm up to Under the Lake, having skipped most of Matt Smith.
Matt's episodes are worth going back and watching if you've got the time.

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Old 01-06-2016, 03:42 PM   #27
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Sick day for the win...I just finished watching the last few episodes of Series 8, including this one.

OMG. I've turned into a big crybaby in my old(er) age. The ending left me a sobbing mess. Watching Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead now.


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Old 01-06-2016, 05:34 PM   #28
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I have a question about the genesis of River Song. She was created when Tenant was the Doctor, and brought back with Amy and Rory as companions, and eventually we find out her real name was Melody Pond, and is Amy and Rory's daughter, and was actually their best friend growing up. When Moffet introduced River Song, did he have that all planned out? Its pretty damned brilliant either way: planning it from the beginning, or taking what was a throw away character and fleshing her out so beautifully.

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Old 01-06-2016, 06:14 PM   #29
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I have a question about the genesis of River Song. She was created when Tenant was the Doctor, and brought back with Amy and Rory as companions, and eventually we find out her real name was Melody Pond, and is Amy and Rory's daughter, and was actually their best friend growing up. When Moffet introduced River Song, did he have that all planned out? Its pretty damned brilliant either way: planning it from the beginning, or taking what was a throw away character and fleshing her out so beautifully.
If you believe the interviews, yes he did.

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Old 01-06-2016, 06:32 PM   #30
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I tend to believe he did, based both on the aforementioned interviews and the body of evidence in his work (Who and otherwise). He's got a great gift for weaving a narrative tapestry. I know a lot of fans take issue (great or small) with the deep story arcs and the interweaving of story threads across multiple episodes and seasons, that kind of approach really hooks me and makes a much deeper viewing experience for me, drawing me into the show much more than I'd otherwise be drawn.

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