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Old 06-06-2012, 02:59 AM   #451
Guy Kuo
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Post Unitron's 2 stage method (winMFS restore to 1 TB drive then jmfs 1TB to 2 TB drive)


I get a 318HD capacity machine with the following partition table.

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 2097152@310615728 ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@312712880 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@313237168 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@313826992 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@314416816 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1639096320@314418864 ( 781.6G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 1953513984@1953515184( 931.5G)


All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo View Post
Post Unitron's 2 stage method (winMFS restore to 1 TB drive then jmfs 1TB to 2 TB drive)


I get a 318HD capacity machine with the following partition table.

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 2097152@310615728 ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@312712880 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@313237168 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@313826992 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@314416816 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1639096320@314418864 ( 781.6G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 1953513984@1953515184( 931.5G)


All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!
Lookin' good!
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #453
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This is a very interesting development, I haven't been around here in a while it appears.

About 4 years ago I upgraded my 160 GB drive to a 1 TB WD10EVCS drive using WinMFS 9.3b giving me 157 HD hours. While my TiVo has been working fine I'll have to pull my drive when I get a chance and look at the partition table to see if a 2 TB upgrade is do-able with JMFS. It looks like I'd be stuck with the stock swap partition though if I want to keep my recordings...
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:29 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo View Post
This is a very interesting development, I haven't been around here in a while it appears.

About 4 years ago I upgraded my 160 GB drive to a 1 TB WD10EVCS drive using WinMFS 9.3b giving me 157 HD hours. While my TiVo has been working fine I'll have to pull my drive when I get a chance and look at the partition table to see if a 2 TB upgrade is do-able with JMFS. It looks like I'd be stuck with the stock swap partition though if I want to keep my recordings...
I can't absolutely swear that a larger swap partition is necessary, I just figure that it's cheap insurance.

If you don't have an Apple Free Partition on the end of that 1TB, you should be able to use jmfs to copy to a 2TB and expand.

If you did the upgrade with WinMFS, you probably don't, if you did it with MFS Live, you might.

If you do, take the size of the Apple Free Partion and add that to the size of the swap partition you do have.

Write it down.

Then take the MFS Live cd and use

dd_rescue

to copy the 1TB to the 2TB.

Don't try to look at the 2TB with

pdisk

or anything else, like mfsinfo in WinMFS, afterwards.

You don't want to risk anythat might re-write the partition map.

Then use WinMFS to copy the 2TB to the 1TB and specify the written down total of swap + Apple Free as the size of the swap to go onto the 1TB.

That should fill all of the 1TB while preserving all of your recordings.

(If you screw up, you can always use

dd_rescue

to copy the 2TB back to the 1TB and make it just like it was, since the 2TB will still have the 1TB's partition map)

Then test the new, full, with slightly larger swap, 1TB in the TiVo to make sure it's alright.

Then use jmfs to copy the 1TB to the 2TB and expand.

Of course, use TiVo Desktop or something to copy off as many of your recordings as you can before doing any of that just as extra insurance.


Wouldn't hurt to have an extra drive just for Desktop to copy recordings to, both before and after the upgrade.

Well, wouldn't hurt except for the paying today's drive prices, that is.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:15 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I can't absolutely swear that a larger swap partition is necessary, I just figure that it's cheap insurance.

If you don't have an Apple Free Partition on the end of that 1TB, you should be able to use jmfs to copy to a 2TB and expand.

If you did the upgrade with WinMFS, you probably don't, if you did it with MFS Live, you might.
Interesting approach... I don't know if the increased swap makes a difference either, but it is cheap insurance. Not sure how I feel about nuking the 1 TB drive as the interim step though since I'm so cautious.

It looks like I have a nearly identical partition layout as BigJon according to WinMFS:

Code:
Mfsinfo (Drive 6)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=882752fe logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
	next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
	free=102400 checksum=92f661df logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
	next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
	zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
	free=55496 checksum=cdd97a86 logstamp=16881257 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
	next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
	zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=ac62bc3e logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
	next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
	zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
	free=81920 checksum=7b79cc8e logstamp=16881190 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
	next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
	zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
	free=295856 checksum=4ed151cb logstamp=16881066 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
	free=3194880 checksum=ca7a390e logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               63@1         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          8192@309550767 (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          8192@310083248 (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             137630712@171920054 (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           171919990@64        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 2048@312581808 (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         1640939520@312583856 ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908	  0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
So assuming that I'm good to go with 15 partitions, what are the thoughts on the WD20EURS AV-GP drive for DVR applications? I've had great luck with my WD10EVDS, so that would seem to be the logical choice.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:31 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo View Post
Interesting approach... I don't know if the increased swap makes a difference either, but it is cheap insurance. Not sure how I feel about nuking the 1 TB drive as the interim step though since I'm so cautious.

It looks like I have a nearly identical partition layout as BigJon according to WinMFS:

Code:
Mfsinfo (Drive 6)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=882752fe logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
	next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
	free=102400 checksum=92f661df logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
	next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
	zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
	free=55496 checksum=cdd97a86 logstamp=16881257 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
	next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
	zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=ac62bc3e logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
	next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
	zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
	free=81920 checksum=7b79cc8e logstamp=16881190 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
	next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
	zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
	free=295856 checksum=4ed151cb logstamp=16881066 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
	free=3194880 checksum=ca7a390e logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               63@1         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          8192@309550767 (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          8192@310083248 (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             137630712@171920054 (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           171919990@64        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 2048@312581808 (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         1640939520@312583856 ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908	  0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
So assuming that I'm good to go with 15 partitions, what are the thoughts on the WD20EURS AV-GP drive for DVR applications? I've had great luck with my WD10EVDS, so that would seem to be the logical choice.
Looks like you don't have any slack at the end of the drive, so unless you can find a slightly larger than 1TB drive (which I doubt exist), or create a virtual one on a bigger drive, it looks like you can't save your recordings *and* increase swap size, go just take that 2TB WD and use jmfs to copy the 1TB to it and expand, and it should work out fine.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:03 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Looks like you don't have any slack at the end of the drive, so unless you can find a slightly larger than 1TB drive (which I doubt exist), or create a virtual one on a bigger drive, it looks like you can't save your recordings *and* increase swap size, go just take that 2TB WD and use jmfs to copy the 1TB to it and expand, and it should work out fine.
I remember people not being able to recover from a GSOD due to small swap space on a larger than stock drive in the old days, so having additional swap isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Although losing shows wouldn't be good (happened to me twice on my s1 standalone), I could live with with it if the existing swap space on a 2 TB drive caused problems as long as I could restore the truncated backup I have stashed away and get everything up and running.

Has anyone cracked open a TiVo Premiere XL4? I believe they come with a 2 TB drive, so it would be interesting to see what their partition layout/sizes look like...
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:12 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo View Post
I remember people not being able to recover from a GSOD due to small swap space on a larger than stock drive in the old days, so having additional swap isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Although losing shows wouldn't be good (happened to me twice on my s1 standalone), I could live with with it if the existing swap space on a 2 TB drive caused problems as long as I could restore the truncated backup I have stashed away and get everything up and running.

Has anyone cracked open a TiVo Premiere XL4? I believe they come with a 2 TB drive, so it would be interesting to see what their partition layout/sizes look like...
Some people who took a look at a Premiere drive with WinMFS and mfsinfo seemed to have borked their drive, so I recommend only

pdisk

from the MFS Live cd to look at an S4 partition map, and don't run

mfsinfo

on it at all.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:47 AM   #459
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My 1 TB -> 2 TB upgrade appears to have just completed successfully. Very nice.

Some datapoints:
  • The 2 TB WD20EURS drive I used (manufacture date 4/29/12) came with the "IDLE3 timer" disabled according to WDIDLE3 utility v1.05 and had a default AAM setting of 128 according to hdparm utility on the JMFS iso.
  • The Extended Test with the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows v5.19 utility took about 6 hours to run on a 5 year old Dell XPS 410.
  • I booted the JMFS iso from a USB flash drive created with the UNetbootin utility, which worked great and freed up the additional SATA data and power cables from my DVD drive for the disk-to-disk copy.
  • The JMFS 1 TB to 2 TB disk-to-disk copy took about 7 hours to complete (avg throughput 40,470 kB/s).
  • JMFS reported 143 HD hours before the expansion and 288 HD hours after the expansion. On the TiVo, the numbers were 157 HD/1367 SD with the 1 TB drive and 318 HD/2777 SD with the 2 TB drive.
  • I checked my power supply for bulging capacitors while I had the case open and everything looked good.

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Last edited by sbourgeo : 06-09-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #460
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Congrats. You look good to go.

I had to replace 2 of the 1,000 mfd 10 v caps in mine. They were bulging.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:59 AM   #461
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Congrats. You look good to go.

I had to replace 2 of the 1,000 mfd 10 v caps in mine. They were bulging.
With my soldering skills, lets hope so. BTW, glad to see you're still around here every once in a while.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:20 PM   #462
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Ok I tried my upgrade with mixed success and ultimate failure. Hopefully someone can tell me how to recover.

With a 2 TB WD20EURS I removed my 160GB hard drive from my Tivo HD and put the two drives in my desktop and booted up with JMFS. Everything went great here, copied from my original to my new drive took an hour and forty five minutes. I DID NOT expand at this time, so here was my first mistake. I exited JMFS and removed my original Tivo disk and booted my desktop with my normal drive and ran Winmfs. Picked my new Tivo drive and Supersized with no issues. Installed my new Tivo drive in the Tivo it booted up fine and I was watching TV of course I had no more then my original limited recording space.

So I went back to the beginning of this thread and found that I was supposed to expand using JMFS. So I figured I would go backwards meaning I removed the new drive from my Tivo, installed in desktop ran WinMFS and turned off Supersize. Booted in to JMFS and selected Expand, it wuickly came back and told me I had 288 hours of recording space. I then rebooted into Windows to gain that extra 30 hours of recording space with WinMFS. It acknowledged Supersize turning on.

I then installed the new drive into the Tivo and I get the Powering Up screen for a few seconds and then everything goes grey for at least 10 minutes which is longer then it has ever taken me to reboot.

So before screwing the pooch any further I reinstalled my old drive and it booted up fine and my wife is happy. I am not of course. How do I reover my new drive? Do I format it and start over? Suggestions....

Thanks
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #463
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It's not clear what state your new drive is in. I would start from the beginning and follow the directions in the first post of this thread.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #464
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Got my upgraded drive to work. Needed to run WDidle3
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:28 PM   #465
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A/V vs non-A/V drives?

I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.

As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.

Any thoughts/comments?
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Preshoot View Post
I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.

As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.

Any thoughts/comments?
IMHO; With today's drives I don't think there is any problem with blips that I have noticed, I think that AV drives are just for advertising and getting a little more money. Somewhat like putting 93 octane gas when you car calls for 87 octane, if it makes you feel better put 93 in you car and put an AV drive into your TiVo. (the OEM WD drives TiVo uses are not rated as AV drives)
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo View Post
The unique advantage of jmfs is that it can add a single partition when winmfs can only add pairs of partitions.

....

1. The added media partition is well above the 1 tebibyte "limit" that the deep TiVo hackers have documented in the device driver. (Those guys even have a special patched kernel that fixes the limit. So, yes I believe there is/was such a limit)

jmfs expansion of a stock 160 GB (with the current 11.0K tivo software) shares the big partition problem. jmfs creates a single, huge media partition if one uses it with an original 160 GB TiVoHD drive. So, in this regard one could use either tool to go to directly to a 2 TB drive because both create a oversized media partition.

If the signed 32 bit integer limit still exists in the 11.0K kernel's disc device driver, then after several weeks of recording normally, the system could become unstable. However, the most recent info I could find regarding the existence of this 1TB partition limit is very old. TiVo MAY have fixed this limit in the current kernel. That would be fantastic and make both winmfs and jmfs suitable for creating a 2 TB drive.
This is an interesting point. The MFS limits were not random limits of the tools. They were due to limits in the Tivo kernel. Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo View Post
...
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@313237168 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@313826992 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@314416816 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1639096320@314418864 ( 781.6G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 1953513984@1953515184( 931.5G)


All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!
Does anyone know the purpose of the App partition added by WinMFS/MFS Live (14 in the above example)? It's a token size compared to the other "application" regions, and if you start with JMFS you won't have it. So what was the point? Probably something historical with S1s or S2s.

Unlike JMFS, the MFS tools already do partition-by-partition copies and supports changing the swap region. I peeked at the source for MFS Live's "restore". It seems relatively straightforward to mod it to
  • not create a 3rd App region
  • not create an Apple_Free region,
  • create 1 or 2 up-to-1TB media regions (for starting with original or expanded disks), and
  • (maybe) address AF alignment issues.

Have I missed something?

No, I'm not volunteering. My day job keeps me plenty busy. And I don't understand things like why that third App region was added.

Last edited by tlc : 07-06-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:41 PM   #468
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Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?
I think I've read far more success posts than I have failure posts, but I'm not going to do the research to back up my answer. Maybe we need a poll.

All I can say for sure is that my JMFS + WinMFS upgraded 2TB drive copied from the original 160GB drive is working flawlessly going on 1 year. Hard drive is full (if you count the RD folder).
Caveat: I had the original 160GB Tivo drive on the shelf after upgrading with a 1TB Weaknees drive. I made sure to re-install the original hard drive in the Tivo and let it get the latest software before I used it to do the 2TB upgrade with JMFS/WinMFS.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Preshoot View Post
I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.

As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.

Any thoughts/comments?
I noted some tiny power consumption benefit, but not so sure about any other benefit, particularly anything about "ignoring any errors". Have any links for this, particularly a demo of that shows the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc View Post
This is an interesting point. The MFS limits were not random limits of the tools. They were due to limits in the Tivo kernel. Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?
I started this thread and haven't had any issues with a 1.7TB partition:
Code:
Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               63@1         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          8192@171920055 (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          8192@172452536 (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             137630712@174951096 (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           171919990@64        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS media region 3          3594447360@312581808 (   1.7T)
I made sure to fill up the drive during my first week, taping shows all day long, until I was convinced that there was no issue with any of my existing shows and that the deletes fell off properly. I've been running with 2TB drives in my Tivo HD's since 12/2010.

Last edited by Tivoitis : 07-08-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #470
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Just wanted to throw in another report of success. I had a WD 750GB AV-GP drive that I had setup using WinMFS 4 years ago. Recently I started experiencing random reboots and very sluggish performance, so I bought a WD20EURS to replace the 750GB drive.

This time I used jmfs. I started the copy operation around bed time. When I checked it the next morning jmfs reported that it had copied all the data, minus 4KB of errors. Next I expanded the new drive, but I did not supersize. Then just to be safe I checked the partitions. The partitions looked good, so I installed the new drive and fired it up. Everything works as it should - the Tivo HD sees all the space, and performance is back to normal.

Thanks, comer!
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:59 AM   #471
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Tivo HD POST upgrade-related questions

Hi!

I have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer...

First of all, here is what I did:
  • Took stock 160GB drive (which had been out of the Tivo for a long time), put it back into the Tivo, let it update the firmare (to 11.0k)
  • Copied the drive to a single internal 2TB drive using JMFS
  • Expanded the 2TB drive with JMFS to get the full size
  • I did NOT supersize with JMFS (nor WinMFS) and my recording hours show 287 hours.
  • I was able to boot, connect to the Tivo Service and download data
  • I saw accurate data in the Live TV overlay guide and was able to successfully record HD shows

I am unable to find any shows through the standard Tivo program search. When I checked my system information, it shows that while my guide data is current, neither garbage collection nor indexing has run since the stock Tivo drive was pulled out ages ago.

Will indexing and GC run eventually or do I have a show stopper here? I went in and updated the channel list which some people said would trigger GC. I also unplugged the network cable from the Tivo to see if it just needs to "catch up" somehow (it successfully connected to the Tivo service maybe three times before I pulled it). And of course I rebooted.

I am also wondering about the swap partition size as I've seen several posts recommending a 2GB swap partition for a 2TB Tivo drive. What size swap partition does JMFS create by default? Do I need to change it somehow (make it larger) or is the default sufficient for my 2TB drive?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

Last edited by caroth : 08-09-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:16 PM   #472
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Hi!

I have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer...

First of all, here is what I did:
  • Took stock 160GB drive (which had been out of the Tivo for a long time), put it back into the Tivo, let it update the firmare (to 11.something j)
  • Copied the drive to a single internal 2TB drive using JMFS
  • Expanded the 2TB drive with JMFS to get the full size
  • I did NOT supersize with JMFS (nor WinMFS) and my recording hours show 287 hours.
  • I was able to boot, connect to the Tivo Service and download data
  • I saw accurate data in the Live TV overlay guide and was able to successfully record HD shows

I am unable to find any shows through the standard Tivo program search. When I checked my system information, it shows that while my guide data is current, neither garbage collection nor indexing has run since the stock Tivo drive was pulled out ages ago.

Will indexing and GC run eventually or do I have a show stopper here? I went in and updated the channel list which some people said would trigger GC. I also unplugged the network cable from the Tivo to see if it just needs to "catch up" somehow (it successfully connected to the Tivo service maybe three times before I pulled it). And of course I rebooted.

I am also wondering about the swap partition size as I've seen several posts recommending a 2GB swap partition for a 2TB Tivo drive. What size swap partition does JMFS create by default? Do I need to change it somehow (make it larger) or is the default sufficient for my 2TB drive?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!
jmfs does not create a swap partition, it copies the one on the source drive, whatever size it is, just as it copies all of the other partitions on the source drive, whatever size they are.

If there's any space left on the target drive after that, it can create a single MFS partition to fill that space.

A 1GB swap on a 2TB drive should be sufficient. That's only about 15 minutes worth of video, I consider it cheap insurance.

You say the stock 160GB drive had been out of the TiVo for a long time.

What was in the TiVo instead? Did it go bad?
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:01 PM   #473
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jmfs does not create a swap partition, it copies the one on the source drive, whatever size it is, just as it copies all of the other partitions on the source drive, whatever size they are.

If there's any space left on the target drive after that, it can create a single MFS partition to fill that space.

A 1GB swap on a 2TB drive should be sufficient. That's only about 15 minutes worth of video, I consider it cheap insurance.

You say the stock 160GB drive had been out of the TiVo for a long time.

What was in the TiVo instead? Did it go bad?

I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?

I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:16 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroth View Post
I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?

I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.
Use whichever one of those 1TB drives is still good.

Use WinMFS.

See if it will let you make a copy from the 160 and specify a bigger swap partition size. (put 1000 or 1024 in the box).

If so, great.

If not, use WinMFS to make a backup from that 160 and then do a restore onto the 1TB drive and specify a 1GB swap size.

Then use mfsadd (in WinMFS) to fill the rest of the 1TB.

The copy or the restore should have given you 13 partitions (use mfsinfo to get a partition table) plus a 14th "Apple Free" partition.

mfsadd should turn that Apple Free partition into a 3rd MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, filling the 1TB with no space left over.

You can have a maximum of 16 partitions per drive on a TiVo drive.

What you do then is take the 1TB and use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB, and then to expand by creating a single 16th MFS media partition in the rest of the space.

The trick is not to have any extra space on that 1TB, because it will be seen as a 16th "Apple Free" partition, and jmfs, which only copies byte for byte, will copy it over as the 16th partition and proceed to expand by making a 17th partition. But you can only have 16 per drive, so the TiVo will think that 17th partition is an external drive that's screwed up and offer to divorce it for you, at the end of which process you'll be back to having a 2TB drive that's only got 1TB worth of TiVo partition space on it.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:19 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroth View Post
I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?

I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.
As for your Garbage Collection issue, are you on a cable system that does Switched Digital Video and requires a Tuning Adapter (SDV / TA)?

If so, go read the threads about how you have to put the TA on a lamp timer to disconnect it's power in the middle of the night or whenever you aren't using the TiVo to record for about a 4 hour stretch.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:56 PM   #476
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As for your Garbage Collection issue, are you on a cable system that does Switched Digital Video and requires a Tuning Adapter (SDV / TA)?

If so, go read the threads about how you have to put the TA on a lamp timer to disconnect it's power in the middle of the night or whenever you aren't using the TiVo to record for about a 4 hour stretch.
Yes, I am. I hadn't come across the lamp timer suggestion. I will go ahead and get my swap space issue fixed first, then I'll look for that article.

Thanks for all your help!
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #477
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Yes, I am. I hadn't come across the lamp timer suggestion. I will go ahead and get my swap space issue fixed first, then I'll look for that article.

Thanks for all your help!
It's a big enough problem that there's more than one thread around here about it.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:22 PM   #478
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It's a big enough problem that there's more than one thread around here about it.
Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.

I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.

Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.

Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.

Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...

I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #479
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Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.

I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.

Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.

Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.

Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...

I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...
No personal experience with TAs myself, just know what I learned from reading here. We're still an analog house except for the rabbit ears on the S3.

For upgrades, go here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=370784

go to the last page and then back up about 5 or 10 pages and read forwards.

For more on the SDV TA problem, this

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=472857

seems to be the thread where the answer was figured out.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:45 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroth View Post
Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.

I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.

Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.

Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.

Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...

I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...
This is only anecdotal evidence, but I upgraded my 160GB hard drive to 2 TB just like you did (only I used WinMFS to supersize) last year and have had no problems.

Put your tuning adapter on a lamp timer and I bet you will have no further problems.

For me, the size of the swap partition has been a non issue.
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