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Old 11-26-2011, 01:57 PM   #331
dcstager
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Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:29 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstager View Post
Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.
No... Just use WinMFS for the original S3. JMFS is for Tivo's after that one.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:01 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstager View Post
Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.
I think the latest thinking at this point is that you can't use all of a 2TB drive in an original S3, and I'm not sure if you can even use less than that if it's on a 2TB drive.

Somewhere around here, probably in the

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=370784

in the S3 forum

there's some discussion about which models can use what size drive or how much space you can get maximum with or without adding an external, although the majority opinion seems to be that adding an external just increases your chances of drive problems.

At least the original S3 isn't limited to just the approved WD externals the way the HDs and the S4s are.
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:28 PM   #334
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Great thread!
The OEM 160GB drive in my TiVo-HD was becoming erratic (it's mfg date was Sept 2007) so I followed the instructions on page 1 and on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ page (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=370784) to use a spare WD GreenPower 500GB drive I had on hand. Prepped the drive with the Wdidle3 and HDDScan (for acoustic management), imaged my OEM drive with Mfslive (run as admin in Win7), then wrote that image back to the new 500Gb drive- popped the new drive in the TiVo and it booted right up and has been flawless since last night.

Big thanks to the thread starter!! Bought that 500GB drive before the floods for under $50
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:26 PM   #335
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160gb directly to 2tb?

Well, I have a 2tb drive that I'm trying to use. So far, I've found:
- the USB/SATA adapter I have doesn't work on the 2TB drive, only the smaller one. As some posts have noted, it seems to have to do with the electronics on the adapter. Caveat emptor
- I've done both winmfs and mfslive to create a 1.2TB image that works. No problems in operation.
- I've tried using jmfs to copy the 160gb over to my 2tb disk, and then used the expand portion. After the long initial boot, it seems to work. But I have had some odd behaviors (thinks like hdmi cable "Viewing not permitted") but I'm not sure if thats the disk. One thing I have seen is that it creates a 1.7TB partition, and unless the new software can handle it, that is too large. So, I then tried:
- Using winmfs to create a 160gb image, a 1TB image, etc (lots of permutations) on my 2tb disk, and then tried to use jmfs to expand and create the last partition. My thinking being that we need to have less than 16 partitions, and no partition should be larger than 1tb.

Its the last scenario that has me stumped. Jmfs just doesn't seem to work with any disk that winmfs creates. If I use jmfs to copy over the image, its happy. But if I use winmfs to copy it over, it just fails the expand every time.
Thoughts on where to go from here?

Oh and final note. Somewhat handicapped. My native box is a laptop; have to borrow a desktop with SATA connections to do most of this playing.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:46 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spl7 View Post
Well, I have a 2tb drive that I'm trying to use. So far, I've found:
- the USB/SATA adapter I have doesn't work on the 2TB drive, only the smaller one. As some posts have noted, it seems to have to do with the electronics on the adapter. Caveat emptor
- I've done both winmfs and mfslive to create a 1.2TB image that works. No problems in operation.
- I've tried using jmfs to copy the 160gb over to my 2tb disk, and then used the expand portion. After the long initial boot, it seems to work. But I have had some odd behaviors (thinks like hdmi cable "Viewing not permitted") but I'm not sure if thats the disk. One thing I have seen is that it creates a 1.7TB partition, and unless the new software can handle it, that is too large. So, I then tried:
- Using winmfs to create a 160gb image, a 1TB image, etc (lots of permutations) on my 2tb disk, and then tried to use jmfs to expand and create the last partition. My thinking being that we need to have less than 16 partitions, and no partition should be larger than 1tb.

Its the last scenario that has me stumped. Jmfs just doesn't seem to work with any disk that winmfs creates. If I use jmfs to copy over the image, its happy. But if I use winmfs to copy it over, it just fails the expand every time.
Thoughts on where to go from here?

Oh and final note. Somewhat handicapped. My native box is a laptop; have to borrow a desktop with SATA connections to do most of this playing.
Can you get hold of a 1TB drive to use for a day or so?

What I wound up doing was copying the 160 to a 1TB (and increasing the size of the swap partition in the process) and expanding (adding partitions 14 and 15) with WinMFS.

For some reason MFS Live will leave a little extra bit of space at the end of that 1TB drive, which gets read as an Apple Free partition and defeats jmfs, but WinMFS uses all of the space.

Then I used jmfs to copy from the 1TB to a 2TB and then create the 16th partition, which was less than 1 binary TB.

The key is to not have an Apple Free partition (which is how the Apple Partition Map and stuff that can read it interprets unpartitioned space), because jmfs sees this as a partition and creates a 17th partition.

The HD sees this as a screwed up external drive, makes you divorce it, and that leaves you with a 2TB drive of which you can only use 1TB.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:40 PM   #337
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Thanks for your reply unitron. Yeah, a 1TB drive would make things easier, but no, no access. When I tried the jmfs on the drive, the expand just failed; didn't even create something with the extra 17th partition.

When I created the winmfs 1tb drive, it creates only 15 partitions, so I thought it would be ok. But for whatever reason, JMFS doesnt even try to process it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:13 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spl7 View Post
Thanks for your reply unitron. Yeah, a 1TB drive would make things easier, but no, no access. When I tried the jmfs on the drive, the expand just failed; didn't even create something with the extra 17th partition.

When I created the winmfs 1tb drive, it creates only 15 partitions, so I thought it would be ok. But for whatever reason, JMFS doesnt even try to process it.
MFS Live has a thing called

pdisk

and

pdisk -l

will show Apple Partition Maps

(that's a lowercase L after the hyphen)

It also has a thing called mfsinfo that gives useful info.

WinMFS has mfsinfo, and it's version displays the partition map as part of its output.

Clues can be found that way.

Unfortunately, I don't know nearly as much about how jmfs works as I'd like to.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:11 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
MFS Live has a thing called

pdisk

and

pdisk -l

will show Apple Partition Maps

(that's a lowercase L after the hyphen)

It also has a thing called mfsinfo that gives useful info.

WinMFS has mfsinfo, and it's version displays the partition map as part of its output.

Clues can be found that way.

Unfortunately, I don't know nearly as much about how jmfs works as I'd like to.
I could swear that I had done a winmfs 1tb upgrade, then did the msinfo and plist and saw only 15 partitions, no "apple free" ones after. I'm in the process of doing a winmfs 1tb, let it do its download to see if it cleans up any pointers and structures, then I'm going to double check with jmfs.

But all that aside, assuming that there are no extra hidden APM partitions, am I just barking up the wrong tree? And can any one tell me what it is about a jmfs copy that makes this work, vs using winmfs to copy/create the disk?
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:03 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spl7 View Post
I could swear that I had done a winmfs 1tb upgrade, then did the msinfo and plist and saw only 15 partitions, no "apple free" ones after. I'm in the process of doing a winmfs 1tb, let it do its download to see if it cleans up any pointers and structures, then I'm going to double check with jmfs.

But all that aside, assuming that there are no extra hidden APM partitions, am I just barking up the wrong tree? And can any one tell me what it is about a jmfs copy that makes this work, vs using winmfs to copy/create the disk?
WinMFS only knows how to do expanding by adding MFS pairs, and TiVos seem to have a 3 pairs per drive limitation. The 160 already has 2 pairs, so that's 1,840GB left to fill going onto a 2TB. TiVos also seem to have a 1.1TB per partition limitation.

MFS pairs seem to be one fairly small partition containing I'm not sure what and one much bigger one where the actual shows get recorded. So there's no way to use all of that 1,840GB as just a single MFS pair.

TiVo also has a 16 partitions of any kind per drive limitation. If you copy the 160 to a bigger drive and add an MFS pair, that leaves you with 15 partitions, not counting any free space that gets counted as an Apple Free partition.

Unlike MFS Live and WinMFS, which both see an Apple Free partition as something they can overwrite with another MFS pair, jmfs sees it and preserves it as a valid partition.

If you can fully fill a drive with those first 15 partitions, jmfs can copy that to a larger drive and create a single MFS media partition, which becomes partition 16.

If you go straight to a 2TB from the 160 with jmfs, I don't know if it can create the 3rd MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and then add a single one or not.

What I do know is that if you do it that way you are stuck with the original size swap partition, and I didn't want to settle for that, which is why I beat my head against the wall until I figured out how to use WinMFS to fully fill a 1TB and then copy that with jmfs to a 2TB and add that 16th partition.

I spend a lot of time with MFS Live trying swap sizes just a little bigger or just a little smaller than my intended goal of 1GB, trying to keep from getting an Apple Free partition at the end, but it never happened. After about the 7th or 8th time I think I even heard it snicker at me.

Somewhere there's a thread where comer (the jmfs guy) talks about developing it, but it gets a little too far down into the weeds and makes my head hurt.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:56 PM   #341
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128K Swapsize for 2TB drive? Danger or overblown issue?

SO, I just completed taking my virgin 160MB drive THD, allowed it to upgrade to 11.0k, and then copied and expanded via JMFS to a 2TB drive.

Booted fine, ended up with the original 13 partions with the new 14th MFS media region 3 partition with size of 1.7TB. Wowza! Was a little surprised to see that not paired with an application region partition, but in reading through this thread, that is not unexpected.


My only concern right now is that the Swap size is still only 128MB. In looking back in this thread, almost all of the success reports are about initial setups.

I'm really nervous about this, but not sure how to get around it at this point, or if it is truly necessary.

It's a huge pain to get my devices re-paired by TWC, so before I plunge forward, thought I'd ask ... have many of you been running at 2TB with the original swap size?



I guess --- if I had to --- I could WinMFS or MFS copy a truncated 160GB image to a 250GB drive with expanded swap space only, and THEN JMFS copy and expand to the 2TB drive. But I've had this open for so long now my wife is going to have my head soon.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:21 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbarry View Post
SO, I just completed taking my virgin 160MB drive THD, allowed it to upgrade to 11.0k, and then copied and expanded via JMFS to a 2TB drive.

Booted fine, ended up with the original 13 partions with the new 14th MFS media region 3 partition with size of 1.7TB. Wowza! Was a little surprised to see that not paired with an application region partition, but in reading through this thread, that is not unexpected.


My only concern right now is that the Swap size is still only 128MB. In looking back in this thread, almost all of the success reports are about initial setups.

I'm really nervous about this, but not sure how to get around it at this point, or if it is truly necessary.

It's a huge pain to get my devices re-paired by TWC, so before I plunge forward, thought I'd ask ... have many of you been running at 2TB with the original swap size?



I guess --- if I had to --- I could WinMFS or MFS copy a truncated 160GB image to a 250GB drive with expanded swap space only, and THEN JMFS copy and expand to the 2TB drive. But I've had this open for so long now my wife is going to have my head soon.
That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.

Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?

Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).

That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.

I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.

So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.

The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.

Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.

The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #343
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No extra drive available. I was thinking I could use win mds to restore and add a larger swap without expanding the drive and then use jmfs to expand. I don want to b a pioneer, but I thought the 1tb limit for partitions had been defeated in recent versions. Sigh...





Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.

Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?

Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).

That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.

I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.

So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.

The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.

Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.

The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.

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Old 02-10-2012, 10:41 PM   #344
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Well, grabbed a hold of my friend's pc for a few hours and verified. My winmfs expanded drive (expanded to 1tb out of the 2tb on the disk) had only 15 partition in use, and couldn't see any other partitions. Not quite sure why jmfs can't expand and add the last partition to this disk.

Gonna beg borrow steal a 1 tb and do the one known safe way that I know of, i.e. create a 1tb disk, then use jmfs to copy it off onto the 2tb and expand it. I still have no idea of what that jmfs copy does, but it seems like its the one documented version that works.

In the meantime, since it will be a few days (and I'm not beholden to keep my shows), I just did what post 1 said to do, i.e. used jmfs to copy my 160gb drive directly, and expanded it. I'm just going to record everything in sight to see if I cant exceed that 1tb size and see if it still works.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:58 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spl7 View Post
Well, grabbed a hold of my friend's pc for a few hours and verified. My winmfs expanded drive (expanded to 1tb out of the 2tb on the disk) had only 15 partition in use, and couldn't see any other partitions. Not quite sure why jmfs can't expand and add the last partition to this disk.

Gonna beg borrow steal a 1 tb and do the one known safe way that I know of, i.e. create a 1tb disk, then use jmfs to copy it off onto the 2tb and expand it. I still have no idea of what that jmfs copy does, but it seems like its the one documented version that works.

In the meantime, since it will be a few days (and I'm not beholden to keep my shows), I just did what post 1 said to do, i.e. used jmfs to copy my 160gb drive directly, and expanded it. I'm just going to record everything in sight to see if I cant exceed that 1tb size and see if it still works.
Did you use mfsinfo in WinMFS to see the partition map?

If you look at the drive with pdisk from the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should have even if you don't have a TiVo), it'll probably show a 16th Apple Free partition, which takes up the rest of that 2TB.

jmfs probably sees that 16th partition as well, and considers the drive already filled.

What jmfs does is copy the original drive using dd or dd_rescue or ddrescue to do it byte for byte, "Xeroxing" it, so to speak, and then fills any leftover space on the target drive with a single MFS media partition. Which means it copies the swap partition the same size it already is on the original drive.

The thing to do is use WinMFS to copy the original drive to a 1TB, expanding swap to 1000 (i.e., 1000MB, or 1GB, which is only about 15 minutes worth of video space, so you can spare it), and then let it expand into the rest of the 1TB by adding an MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and make sure that it completely fills the drive with no Apple Free partition at the end. You may need to reboot the computer and launch WinMFS again to be absolutely sure.

Once you've got the 1TB filled that way, power off, disconnect everything but the cd-rom drive (or dvd), the 1TB and the 2TB, and boot with the jmfs 1.04 cd and let it copy the 1TB to the 2TB, which will take quite a while, and then expand by adding that 16th MFS partition.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:33 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Did you use mfsinfo in WinMFS to see the partition map?

If you look at the drive with pdisk from the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should have even if you don't have a TiVo), it'll probably show a 16th Apple Free partition, which takes up the rest of that 2TB.

jmfs probably sees that 16th partition as well, and considers the drive already filled.

What jmfs does is copy the original drive using dd or dd_rescue or ddrescue to do it byte for byte, "Xeroxing" it, so to speak, and then fills any leftover space on the target drive with a single MFS media partition. Which means it copies the swap partition the same size it already is on the original drive.

The thing to do is use WinMFS to copy the original drive to a 1TB, expanding swap to 1000 (i.e., 1000MB, or 1GB, which is only about 15 minutes worth of video space, so you can spare it), and then let it expand into the rest of the 1TB by adding an MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and make sure that it completely fills the drive with no Apple Free partition at the end. You may need to reboot the computer and launch WinMFS again to be absolutely sure.

Once you've got the 1TB filled that way, power off, disconnect everything but the cd-rom drive (or dvd), the 1TB and the 2TB, and boot with the jmfs 1.04 cd and let it copy the 1TB to the 2TB, which will take quite a while, and then expand by adding that 16th MFS partition.
Thanks again unitron. Yes, your plan is what I was figuring to do. There seems to be something magical about the jmfs copy off, so your plan is what I was doing, though I wasn't sure about the size of the swap. Im not sure about the 1GB swap though; I was planning on 500mb. I know conventional wisdom was bigger to avoid the GSOD, and there were some rule of thumbs to expand them, but 1GB seems excessive to me.

As for checking the drive, yup, I did. I used winmfs and took a look at the 1tb drive, as well as booting under jmfs and used the mfslayout.sh script. I was hoping to find the extra partition which I was prepared to smudge out (I forget the post, but there was one describing the APM layout and how to dd the partition, mod it, and write it back) but didn't. Argh.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:01 PM   #347
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Ok. So I don't have an extra drive. But I am using VMware and set up a 1tb virtual drive. So I use winmfs on the clean 160gb image and did a truncated image. Then used that image and applied it to the 1tb virtual drive with a 1024mb swap file. Mfs info did not show the apple free pseudo partition so I am now usin jmfs to copy the virtual 1 tb to the physicAl 2tb. This has been running for about 18 hours so far... Hopefully it will be worth it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.
A
Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?

Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).

That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.

I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.

So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.

The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.

Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.

The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.

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Old 02-11-2012, 08:12 PM   #348
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Ok. So I don't have an extra drive. But I am using VMware and set up a 1tb virtual drive. So I use winmfs on the clean 160gb image and did a truncated image. Then used that image and applied it to the 1tb virtual drive with a 1024mb swap file. Mfs info did not show the apple free pseudo partition so I am now usin jmfs to copy the virtual 1 tb to the physicAl 2tb. This has been running for about 18 hours so far... Hopefully it will be worth it.
A virtual hard drive? What did you store it on? I know you ain't got 2TB of RAM in one machine.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:21 AM   #349
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Have you ever used VMWARE or Parallels? WIthin your virtual machine, you create virtual hard drives. One neat thing is that you can define a hard drive, but until the space is used, the real size on the host machines hard disk it is much smaller. I guessed (correctly) that most of the 1TB space would be "empty" (or at least highly compressible), so it didn;t come close -- in fact I just checked and the actual space used was 895MB to represent the 1TB image.



SO the real test will be next few days. I completed the 2TB expansion and I'm running clear and delete right now, and I'll start some recording tomorrow if the annoying Time warner cable can be bothered to pair the cards tomorrow.


Just realize, I forgot to run WIn MDF to supersize and check the final partitioning.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #350
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Smile

So it all ended pretty well I think. My upgrade seems to be a success even though Time Warner took forever to pair the cable cards correctly. Took over three days.! Also it turns out I believe my 1.7 GB partition would have worked its I forgot that I was using a custom kernal --- Something we discuss on about on the other forum. But the takeaway is using a virtual drive as an intermediate step seems viable.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #351
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Well, still trying to take one for the team here. Before I do known copy to 1TB then jmfs to flow it onto a 2tb, I'm still trying out my direct 160gb to 2tb jmfs copy. Works, and I'm trying to copy everything in sight till it exceeds the 1TB barrier and see if it still works.

So far, about 260gb of programs recorded (so I know I'm at least using the >1tb partition). I've also had some weird behavior: the green screen of death (which it recovered from) and several reboots. My question is, is this bad behavior? Should I just give up the ghost? Or typical of a tivo?
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:11 PM   #352
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Well, still trying to take one for the team here. Before I do known copy to 1TB then jmfs to flow it onto a 2tb, I'm still trying out my direct 160gb to 2tb jmfs copy. Works, and I'm trying to copy everything in sight till it exceeds the 1TB barrier and see if it still works.

So far, about 260gb of programs recorded (so I know I'm at least using the >1tb partition). I've also had some weird behavior: the green screen of death (which it recovered from) and several reboots. My question is, is this bad behavior? Should I just give up the ghost? Or typical of a tivo?
What brand and model of 2TB drive?
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:32 PM   #353
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Seagate 7200. Didn't think it mattered as much with sata based drives.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:31 PM   #354
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Seagate 7200. Didn't think it mattered as much with sata based drives.
The anecdotal "evidence" so far seems to be that HDs don't like Seagates as much as they do WD Caviar Greens (once Intellipark has been disabled).

I have a theory that it's more the Seagate part than the rpm part that doesn't go over as well, but that's pretty much just a hunch on my part so far.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #355
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i'm interested to see how this turns out
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #356
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Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.
I have a similar question, being a new member to the group, but having waded through the forums as a non-member for years: I have a TiVo HD (TCD 652160) that I successfully upgraded to an expanded/supersized 1tb drive four or five years ago - using a Hitachi HD and the directions supplied on the Drive Expansion and Upgrade forum; using WinMFS I wound up with 157 HD hours. Also, the drive appears to behave as though it were the an original TiVo HD; it has consistently supported TiVo software upgrades and currently I am showing 11.ok as as the version running on my unit. Like many others, there are several shows/movies on my TiVo hard drive that I would like to keep - copy protection keeps me from being able to move them onto "My TiVo Recordings" archive on my computer; can I use JFMS to copy the settings and shows from my aging Hitachi HD onto a new WD HD and then use WinFMS to expand/supersize the drive? I understand I will need run the program to deal with the smart park issue on the WD drive. I can't quite get my head around the Apple_Free issue; is that a likely bug on the Hitachi drive and will that force me into manually editing partitions using the command line editor? Sorry to sound dense, but I don't want to start the doggone project and then have both the TiVo and my home network down.

Thanks,

BJ
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:04 PM   #357
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I have a similar question, being a new member to the group, but having waded through the forums as a non-member for years: I have a TiVo HD (TCD 652160) that I successfully upgraded to an expanded/supersized 1tb drive four or five years ago - using a Hitachi HD and the directions supplied on the Drive Expansion and Upgrade forum; using WinMFS I wound up with 157 HD hours. Also, the drive appears to behave as though it were the an original TiVo HD; it has consistently supported TiVo software upgrades and currently I am showing 11.ok as as the version running on my unit. Like many others, there are several shows/movies on my TiVo hard drive that I would like to keep - copy protection keeps me from being able to move them onto "My TiVo Recordings" archive on my computer; can I use JFMS to copy the settings and shows from my aging Hitachi HD onto a new WD HD and then use WinFMS to expand/supersize the drive? I understand I will need run the program to deal with the smart park issue on the WD drive. I can't quite get my head around the Apple_Free issue; is that a likely bug on the Hitachi drive and will that force me into manually editing partitions using the command line editor? Sorry to sound dense, but I don't want to start the doggone project and then have both the TiVo and my home network down.

Thanks,

BJ
Since you used WinMFS, you can hook the 1TB TiVo drive up to the computer again, open WinMFS, click on mfsinfo, and copypaste the partition map in your reply to this reply.

That'll let us see if you have an Apple Free partition at the end of the drive or not.

If not, you'll be able to use the jmfs v1.04 bootable cd to copy that drive to a 1.5 or 2TB drive and add a single MFS media partition as the 16th partition, and all should be well.

Come to think of it, paste in the entire output of mfsinfo, in case we have to figure out a sneaky way to do things.

Also include the model number of that Hitachi and the LBA number, and the same for the 2TB.

It doesn't matter what brand of drive is involved, the Apple Partition Map scheme (a version of which TiVo has used from the start) has a couple of quirks. One is that the partition map itself is the first partition. The other is that any unpartitioned space gets labeled an Apple Free Partition. (that's right, something that's unpartitioned gets classified as a partition by the people whose motto is "think different" )

That second thing is not a problem in and of itself, it's just that when you start with the stock 160GB S3 HD drive it has 13 partitions on it, and using either the MFS Live cd (successor to the old MFS Tools) or WinMFS, they copy the original drive to a larger drive (if that's what you use as a target), and then they expand by adding what's called an MFS pair, which is 2 partitions of specific types. That gets you up to 15 partitions. There's a 64 partition per drive limit built into the Apple Partition Map scheme, but on TiVo drives there's something about the TiVo software that limits you to 16 partitions per drive.

If any space at the end of that 1TB drive was left unused by MFS Live or WinMFS, it will be classified in the partition map as an Apple Free partition.

So if you've got a 1TB with 15 partitions that actually serve a purpose, and a 16th that's just there, the TiVo is perfectly happy.

But jmfs wasn't designed to deal with drives that were already "embiggened" and makes no provision for dealing with Apple Free partitions, and when jmfs copies the 1TB to the 2TB it will include the space that that empty space takes up and the partition table entry for it, and then when it adds the single MFS Media partition which it does, it will make that the 17th partition.

When the TiVo sees that 17th partition on bootup, it'll freak.

So we need to see if we need to worry about that or not.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:55 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Since you used WinMFS, you can hook the 1TB TiVo drive up to the computer again, open WinMFS, click on mfsinfo, and copypaste the partition map in your reply to this reply.......

Come to think of it, paste in the entire output of mfsinfo, in case we have to figure out a sneaky way to do things.

Also include the model number of that Hitachi and the LBA number, and the same for the 2TB......
Really appreciate the response and help unitron....

YeeeGads. All this time I thought I was running a Hitachi HD3100 Desktar (one of the recommended drives in the drive upgrade forum).....turns out I misread one of the series of numbers on the label what I thought was a mdl number was a C P/N of H3D10003272S...whatever that is. The model actually is a HDS721010CLA332. It has worked well for three years but has lately started to show some signs of age (freeze frame and stutter here and there). The LBA is 1.953.535.168 Sectors The cut and paste of the msinfo does show the nefarious apple_free in there and the whole result is:
Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0: type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b82bb450 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z1: type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=1372160 checksum=a9d865d8 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=14
Z2: type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=51928 checksum=2f527539 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=17
Z3: type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9c6e5a90 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z4: type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=1064960 checksum=d09d3948 logstamp=6951882 num_bitmap=15
Z5: type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=316288 checksum=c986e876 logstamp=6946980 num_bitmap=17
Z6: type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=9052160 checksum=2c7b5c4a logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@312581808 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1640939520@312583856 ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

As far as the model and LBA of the 2 TB unit, I don't have the physical drive yet....I was going to get one of the WD green ones, and specifically the one that folks were having the most success with...I can't seem to go back and find that model number here without risk of dumping my reply; I am certainly not bound to the WD drive and am open to whatever would be the best solution that would 1) succesfully clone the settings on the existing drive (including Comcast cable card) and 2) move the saved programing over byte for byte.

Thanks again for your help and support,

BJ
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:30 PM   #359
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Really appreciate the response and help unitron....

YeeeGads. All this time I thought I was running a Hitachi HD3100 Desktar (one of the recommended drives in the drive upgrade forum).....turns out I misread one of the series of numbers on the label what I thought was a mdl number was a C P/N of H3D10003272S...whatever that is. The model actually is a HDS721010CLA332. It has worked well for three years but has lately started to show some signs of age (freeze frame and stutter here and there). The LBA is 1.953.535.168 Sectors The cut and paste of the msinfo does show the nefarious apple_free in there and the whole result is:
Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0: type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b82bb450 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z1: type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=1372160 checksum=a9d865d8 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=14
Z2: type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=51928 checksum=2f527539 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=17
Z3: type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9c6e5a90 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z4: type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=1064960 checksum=d09d3948 logstamp=6951882 num_bitmap=15
Z5: type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=316288 checksum=c986e876 logstamp=6946980 num_bitmap=17
Z6: type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=9052160 checksum=2c7b5c4a logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@312581808 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1640939520@312583856 ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

As far as the model and LBA of the 2 TB unit, I don't have the physical drive yet....I was going to get one of the WD green ones, and specifically the one that folks were having the most success with...I can't seem to go back and find that model number here without risk of dumping my reply; I am certainly not bound to the WD drive and am open to whatever would be the best solution that would 1) succesfully clone the settings on the existing drive (including Comcast cable card) and 2) move the saved programing over byte for byte.

Thanks again for your help and support,

BJ
If you had an Apple Free partition, it would be #16, and you don't have a #16, so it looks like you're good to go, just hook both drives up to a computer and boot with the jmfs v1.04 cd, tell it to copy, then tell it to expand.

When it copies it does the "Xerox" thing, byte for byte, so all the settings and shows are preserved.

Just be sure that you're sure which drive is which so that you don't overwrite your Windows drive or your 1TB which you're trying to copy.

The most commonly used Caviar Green so far seems to have been the WD20EARS, which is 64MB cache and advanced format.

I used a WD20EADS, which is old-style 512 byte sector and 32MB cache.

The WD20EACS is 16MB cache and advanced format, and based on my experience with a WD10EACS (1TB version), I'd use it anywhere I'd use an EARS.

You should look through the most recent 100 or so pages of the drive upgrade thread to see if the people using the EARS are doing anything in particular about the advanced format, like running the WD alignment utility or using the jumper.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:42 PM   #360
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If you had an Apple Free partition, it would be #16, and you don't have a #16, so it looks like you're good to go, just hook both drives up to a computer and boot with the jmfs v1.04 cd, tell it to copy, then tell it to expand........
.........You should look through the most recent 100 or so pages of the drive upgrade thread to see if the people using the EARS are doing anything in particular about the advanced format, like running the WD alignment utility or using the jumper.
Thanks unitron. I spoke too soon when I thought I was plagued with the apple_free issue....my partition was named differently and was the first partition, not the 16th one as you pointed out - - funny seeing a partition named Apple anything on the Tivo drive - they're everywhere; As far as the instructions go for copying the settings and programs, I am assuming the "expand" command is done in the jmfs environment but I will still need to come back to winmfs in Windows to execute "supersize" before I install the new drive.

I spent most of the day going through posts and doing searches of "advanced format" and "jumper" in the drive upgrade thread- - the advanced format issue does not appear to be one that is going to cause me concern with a WD20EARS or WD20EURS. I've got an Asus P5b with an Intel dual core 800 mgH processor......it's not the greatest but it chugs along and has four sata 1 slots and I put in a JMicron sata 2 card that gives me four sata 2 slots. It booted fine with the winmfs boot CD when I did the original upgrade from the 160gb drive and recognized the drives, so I think I will not have a major obstacle unless someone sees something I have missed. I will give a report on my success (or lack of) later in the week when I've got the new drive and I'm done. Thanks again,

BJ
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