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Old 12-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #1
plazman30
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Hack to bypass the CCI bit...

My understanding is that TiVos that use cablecards will block the ability to copy shows between TiVos or to your desktop via TivoToGo If the CCI bit is set to copy once.

I'm sure TiVo hates this feature, as it severely limits the boxes usefulness.

I know some providers, rather than deal with constant requests from tv stations, have decided to just blanket enable the CCI bit for all shows.

So, my question is, why hasn't TiVo implemented a hack to bypass this limitation, much like the 30 second skip hack.? Or allowed a third party hack of some kind that they officially shun but do nothing about? That way they can tell Cablelabs they are compliant.

Last edited by plazman30 : 12-16-2010 at 03:40 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:59 PM   #2
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They can't. In order for them to get approval from CableLabs to sell a CableCARD device they have to obey the rules, and one of those rules is obeying the CCI bit.

The only thing TiVo could do different is to change MRV to use a streaming protocol rather then a copy one. However that wouldn't help TTG at all. They "might" be able to skirt around the issue using a move protocol, rather then copy, for MRV and TTG but I'm not 100% sure if that's legal and even if it is I'm not sure how much work it would really require on their end.

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Old 12-16-2010, 05:08 PM   #3
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Tivo needs to "leak" a hack method to disable all DRM without taking official responsibility for it.
Like an anonymous user makes a new post: "Hey look what I found!" with the info we want, then never posts again. hahahaha
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:29 PM   #4
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Actually from what I've heard, you can hack the Tivo to ignore the CCI bit. Let's just say it involves E-prom programming skills and a steady hand at soldering. Not something most people would venture to do.
Plus we're not really supposed to be discussing such a hack on this forum.
Maybe google can point the way.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
They can't. In order for them to get approval from CableLabs to sell a CableCARD device they have to obey the rules, and one of those rules is obeying the CCI bit.

The only thing TiVo could do different is to change MRV to use a streaming protocol rather then a copy one. However that wouldn't help TTG at all. They "might" be able to skirt around the issue using a move protocol, rather then copy, for MRV and TTG but I'm not 100% sure if that's legal and even if it is I'm not sure how much work it would really require on their end.

Dan
move is 100% legal and called out in the dfast licensing agreement as just fine by cable.

So move would be totally find for MRV.

For TTG they would need to redo the pc client so that the pc was dfast compliant. The current wide open easy to copy TTG wont past muster. But it's not impossible to make a file on a PC secure enough for dfast- or windows wouldn't have media center pcs. Probably tivo would decide that reworking the pc side to be that secure is too much effort.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:50 PM   #6
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Pffft, more like tivo has already decided that just making the PC side actually WORK is too much effort.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:25 PM   #7
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Move should be easy

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Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
move is 100% legal and called out in the dfast licensing agreement as just fine by cable.

So move would be totally find for MRV.

For TTG they would need to redo the pc client so that the pc was dfast compliant. The current wide open easy to copy TTG wont past muster. But it's not impossible to make a file on a PC secure enough for dfast- or windows wouldn't have media center pcs. Probably tivo would decide that reworking the pc side to be that secure is too much effort.
I would think move would be easy. Move to the other TiVo using the existing copy protocol of MRV and then simply delete when the copy is done.

I could deal with that..
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:00 AM   #8
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I would think move would be easy. Move to the other TiVo using the existing copy protocol of MRV and then simply delete when the copy is done.

I could deal with that..
Until your network/power went out and you lost part of what you were xfering
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:00 AM   #9
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They could make it a byte by byte move, so if the transfer failed and could not recover then you'd still have the other half on the source TiVo. Not ideal, but OK in a pinch if there was an unrecoverable error. TiVo already has the ability to delete programs byte by byte because that have that feature which allows shows to be deleted after 90 minutes and they start deleting content second by second at the 90 minute mark.

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Old 12-17-2010, 09:11 AM   #10
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All that is needed to confirm a byte for byte transfer is an MD5 checksum. The ability to generate and check one is built into the OS. All TiVo would have to do is A) generate a checksum for each recording when it is made and hang it off the metadata (it is only 16 bytes), and B) compare the transferred recording's checksum and if it matches delete the source recording.

That is of course assuming TiVo gives a rat's ass about anything other than inking deals now-a-days… of which I have considerable doubt.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:17 AM   #11
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It's not just limited to CableCard. I have two TivoHDs using CableCard and one Series 2 recording from a cable box via S-Video (provider: CableVision Bronx). The exact same channels are blocked from transferring on the Series 2 and Tivo HD. It's not so bad for me since generally only the premium channels (HBO, Starz, etc.) are blocked.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:59 AM   #12
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It's not just limited to CableCard. I have two TivoHDs using CableCard and one Series 2 recording from a cable box via S-Video (provider: CableVision Bronx). The exact same channels are blocked from transferring on the Series 2 and Tivo HD. It's not so bad for me since generally only the premium channels (HBO, Starz, etc.) are blocked.
Would a video stabilizer remove copy protection on the S2?
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:22 PM   #13
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Would a video stabilizer remove copy protection on the S2?
Going into a Series 2 (Humax DVD) VIA the composite or SVHS inputs you can remove the copy protection with the video stabilizer, I did it years ago with some commercial VHS movies I wanted to make DVDs of, so it should work from a cable box to a Series 2. I have that setup on my one Series 2, I will have to try that out on a HBO movie, great idea!! But once on the TiVo the copy protection can't be removed.

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Old 12-18-2010, 08:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by plazman30 View Post
I would think move would be easy. Move to the other TiVo using the existing copy protocol of MRV and then simply delete when the copy is done.

I could deal with that..
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Until your network/power went out and you lost part of what you were xfering

actually dfast suggests exactly how to deal with that.

you mark the second copy as unwatchable while it is being copied. Once the copy is complete then you mark the original verison unwatchable and enable the copy.

That adds in WAITING- but tivo could spend a little more effort and do what cable requires (and tivo already does) for copy never/cci 0x03/ 90 minute self destruct on PPV. You segment the program minute by minute or byte by byte.

With CCI 0x03 as soon as each minute is 90 minutes old it gets marked as unwatchable. You could do the same as soon as each minute is copied to the new tivo and marked as watchable.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:09 PM   #15
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They could make it a byte by byte move, so if the transfer failed and could not recover then you'd still have the other half on the source TiVo. Not ideal, but OK in a pinch if there was an unrecoverable error. TiVo already has the ability to delete programs byte by byte because that have that feature which allows shows to be deleted after 90 minutes and they start deleting content second by second at the 90 minute mark.

Dan

opps- what dan said.


but i'd add - I dont believe tivo delets byte by byte. If I recall tivo records in chunks and it can't break the chunks up- that's why if you start a recording from the buffer it usually doesn't start right at the scheduled start of the show.

Anyway- so i suspect tivo is already internally marking certain bytes as unwatchable just like DFAST requires for MOVE (example- if there's a 5 minute chunk- it probably doesn't delete the fist minute when it gets 90 minutes old- it just marks it as not allowed and still lets you watch the last 4 minutes of the chunk. Once the whole chunk is marked as not allowed then probably the chunk is deleted/marked as garbage)

Last edited by MichaelK : 12-18-2010 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:12 PM   #16
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It's not just limited to CableCard. I have two TivoHDs using CableCard and one Series 2 recording from a cable box via S-Video (provider: CableVision Bronx). The exact same channels are blocked from transferring on the Series 2 and Tivo HD. It's not so bad for me since generally only the premium channels (HBO, Starz, etc.) are blocked.
the CCI bits that effect cable card (and potentially all digital cable boxes)- are NOT LIMITED to just digital copy control. The familiar bits 0x02 and 0x03 limit just digital copies like on the S3/THD/Premiers- but there's other flags that add macrovision to the analog outputs- and still other flags that block digital and do analog macrovision. (plus other fun flags...)
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