Tivo improvements for SP

lighthouse58 · 12-09-2010, 01:44 PM

is there anyone else who thinks that Season Passes could be easier to manage? I finally made the switch to an HD tv and now i face the daunting task of redoing all my SPs to use the HD channel rather than the standard one. Do these new boxes handle it any differently? (I have the older TIVO HD model).

come to think of it, tivo should open an API and allow anyone to develop "tivo apps" to add new functionality.

socrplyr · 12-09-2010, 02:05 PM

The easiest way to do it is to update them online at Tivo.com. Searching on the web and setting the season passes is much faster than doing it from the Tivo. After you have added all the HD versions in, it is relatively trivial reorder them and delete the old ones with the online SPM.

bmgoodman · 12-09-2010, 02:35 PM

Not to rain on your parade, but I'm not optimistic about *anything* good coming from Tivo anymore. Everything I see lately is (A) outside core DVR functionality, (B) half-ass, or (C) both of the above.

We're still waiting on the DirecTV Tivo and the full HD menus for the Premiere. What about the Comcast Tivo? I've given up all hope on automatic soft padding or clear QAM tuning. I still can't do a picture slide show with background music. Nor can I do a search for "4-star movies".

So WTH has Tivo been doing with all the money they've hemorrhaged over the past few years? Are they too busy adding Netflix, Rhapsody, and other craplets? Or is it all being spent on lawyers in the Dish suit?

I just read this week that the Premiere *still* doesn't let you see the channels in a window on the Channel Setup screen? Seriously, I have to manually write down a list of channels that Tivo "thinks" I get that I really don't, then go into the setup and manually remove them? A PIP window could have been added YEARS ago for that.

Yes, I still use Tivo. I still prefer Tivo to other DVRs. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed they seem to tread water while others catch up.

Robbdoe1 · 12-09-2010, 02:56 PM

Adding and removing channels should have been able to be done from the channel banner. This way you could scroll through the channels and see if you get the channel while listening to see if they are speaking english, then add it to the list if you want it.

Robb

lrhorer · 12-09-2010, 05:45 PM

That would work. A better solution, however, would be a more detailed description of each channel in the "Channels you Receive" list.

innocentfreak · 12-09-2010, 06:08 PM

I have always said TiVo needs more options for creating season passes especially after seeing the options on Media Center. Give me a combination of both TiVo and Media Center options and I would be happy.

aadam101 · 12-09-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmgoodman

Not to rain on your parade, but I'm not optimistic about *anything* good coming from Tivo anymore. Everything I see lately is (A) outside core DVR functionality, (B) half-ass, or (C) both of the above.

We're still waiting on the DirecTV Tivo and the full HD menus for the Premiere. What about the Comcast Tivo? I've given up all hope on automatic soft padding or clear QAM tuning. I still can't do a picture slide show with background music. Nor can I do a search for "4-star movies".

So WTH has Tivo been doing with all the money they've hemorrhaged over the past few years? Are they too busy adding Netflix, Rhapsody, and other craplets? Or is it all being spent on lawyers in the Dish suit?

I just read this week that the Premiere *still* doesn't let you see the channels in a window on the Channel Setup screen? Seriously, I have to manually write down a list of channels that Tivo "thinks" I get that I really don't, then go into the setup and manually remove them? A PIP window could have been added YEARS ago for that.

Yes, I still use Tivo. I still prefer Tivo to other DVRs. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed they seem to tread water while others catch up.

The Comcast Tivo doesn't manage SP's any better.....actually I suppose it's worse because there is no online management.

mattack · 12-09-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmgoodman

So WTH has Tivo been doing with all the money they've hemorrhaged over the past few years? Are they too busy adding Netflix, Rhapsody, and other craplets? Or is it all being spent on lawyers in the Dish suit?

I just read this week that the Premiere *still* doesn't let you see the channels in a window on the Channel Setup screen? Seriously, I have to manually write down a list of channels that Tivo "thinks" I get that I really don't, then go into the setup and manually remove them? A PIP window could have been added YEARS ago for that.

Yes, I still use Tivo. I still prefer Tivo to other DVRs. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed they seem to tread water while others catch up.

Netflix on the Tivo is the only streaming I have to my TV.. so I definitely think that one is reasonable (though I realize its UI has lagged behind others -- and eventually I will have a PS3).. and admittedly I don't use the streaming MUCH.

There's a workaround for your channels I receive situation that has worked since S1. When in channels I receive, hit live TV.. go to the channel you care about, then LEFT back to the channels I receive list. Left will always take you back to the last menu you were in. It's very handy.

I do think it's funny that even you say Tivo is better than the others. It's really bizarre that nobody has even CAUGHT UP with a 10 year old product.

Robbdoe1 · 12-10-2010, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattack

Netflix on the Tivo is the only streaming I have to my TV.. so I definitely think that one is reasonable (though I realize its UI has lagged behind others -- and eventually I will have a PS3).. and admittedly I don't use the streaming MUCH.

There's a workaround for your channels I receive situation that has worked since S1. When in channels I receive, hit live TV.. go to the channel you care about, then LEFT back to the channels I receive list. Left will always take you back to the last menu you were in. It's very handy.

I do think it's funny that even you say Tivo is better than the others. It's really bizarre that nobody has even CAUGHT UP with a 10 year old product.

Good tip. Thanks.

Robb

lighthouse58 · 12-10-2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrplyr

The easiest way to do it is to update them online at Tivo.com. Searching on the web and setting the season passes is much faster than doing it from the Tivo. After you have added all the HD versions in, it is relatively trivial reorder them and delete the old ones with the online SPM.

yes. that is easier, but it sure would be nice to be able to see an "advanced options" page where i could do things like set a preferred channel for recording or maybe a default setting that says "record in HD, if offered". There are all sorts of options that would make my tv life easier - How about a season no. or year setting? most programs' info includes the year it was made (2010). wouldn't it be nice to create a SP that allows me to "record all Seinfield episodes between 1993 and 1996"? i wouldn't even expect to do it from my peanut; online would be cool. Just gimme a big a** sheet w/ lots of options to manipulate before i hit the "submit" button. i hate interfaces that force me to bloop bloop through screen after screen of related selections.

orangeboy · 12-10-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

...or maybe a default setting that says "record in HD, if offered"...

TiVo corp. has no way of knowing what channels offer HD or not. To schedule a Season Pass, the only givens are the Show, and what channels the show is airing on. Yes, TiVo corp. knows what shows are offered in HD, but they have no way of associating channels that support HD. I don't see that problem being easily overcome...

lighthouse58 · 12-10-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangeboy

TiVo corp. has no way of knowing what channels offer HD or not. To schedule a Season Pass, the only givens are the Show, and what channels the show is airing on. Yes, TiVo corp. knows what shows are offered in HD, but they have no way of associating channels that support HD. I don't see that problem being easily overcome...

that's not strictly true. there are HD channels in the cable lineup. not hard to put 2 and 2 together and say "program A is showing the same episode on CBS and CBSHD, let's record the one on CBSHD". Come to think of it, Tivo DOES know which shows are in HD b/c it creates a folder in my "now playing" list that says "HD recordings".

DeWitt · 12-10-2010, 10:47 AM

You can also just remove the SD versions of the channels from channels I receive. The Web site is a good suggestion as well. Not only does it let you manage your season passes you can migrate them between multiple Tivo's. I find that a great feature.

I'm looking forward to similar functionality from the new iPad app when it comes out.

Grey Griffin · 12-10-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

that's not strictly true. there are HD channels in the cable lineup. not hard to put 2 and 2 together and say "program A is showing the same episode on CBS and CBSHD, let's record the one on CBSHD".

This assumes your cable company marks the channels as HD. My company marks many of the HD channels with "DT" indicating they are on the digital and not analog feed. If we're using HD as the indicator then there are a load of channels Tivo would miss.

orangeboy · 12-10-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

that's not strictly true. there are HD channels in the cable lineup. not hard to put 2 and 2 together and say "program A is showing the same episode on CBS and CBSHD, let's record the one on CBSHD". Come to think of it, Tivo DOES know which shows are in HD b/c it creates a folder in my "now playing" list that says "HD recordings".

And how would the TiVo select the HD channels in my lineup?:

Code:

TiVo name	Channel number	Channel name
TivoS3		2-1		WESHDT (Ant)
TivoS3		2-2		WESHDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		6-1		WKMGDT (Ant)
TivoS3		6-2		WKMGDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		9-1		WFTVDT (Ant)
TivoS3		9-2		WFTVDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		15-1		WDSCDT (Ant)
TivoS3		15-2		WDSCDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		15-3		WDSCDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		18-1		WKCFDT (Ant)
TivoS3		18-2		WKCFDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		18-3		WKCFDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		24-1		WMFEDT (Ant)
TivoS3		24-2		WMFEDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		24-3		WMFEDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		24-4		WMFEDT4 (Ant)
TivoS3		26-1		WVENDT (Ant)
TivoS3		26-2		WVENDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		27-1		WRDQDT (Ant)
TivoS3		27-2		WRDQDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		35-1		WOFLDT (Ant)
TivoS3		38-1		WHDOLD (Ant)
TivoS3		40-1		WACXDT (Ant)
TivoS3		40-2		WACXDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		40-3		WACXDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		43-1		WOTFDT (Ant)
TivoS3		45-1		WTGLDT (Ant)
TivoS3		45-2		WTGLDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		45-3		WTGLDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		52-1		WHLVDT (Ant)
TivoS3		56-1		WOPXDT (Ant)
TivoS3		56-2		WOPXDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		56-3		WOPXDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		65-1		WRBWDT (Ant)
TivoS3		68-1		WBCCDT (Ant)
TivoS3		68-2		WBCCDT2 (Ant)
TivoS3		68-3		WBCCDT3 (Ant)
TivoS3		68-4		WBCCDT4 (Ant)

You're going to have to trust me that TiVo uses identifiers like this to associate channel, show and episode when scheduling a recording:
tivo:st.4208842 (channel)
tivo:cl.167262 (show)
tivo:ct.382150 (episode)

lighthouse58 · 12-10-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangeboy

And how would the TiVo select the HD channels in my lineup?:

Code:

TiVo name	Channel number	Channel name
TivoS3		2-1		WESHDT (Ant)
TivoS3		2-2		WESHDT2 (Ant)
snip

I don't know about your lineup, but on my cable lineup, everything above channel 500 seems to be HD. Since there are only a handful of companies that deliver most of the cable/sat services around the country, it doesn't seem to be an insurmountable problem. I'm not saying it's necessarily trivial, but it's no moonshot either. PAYING customers expect incremental improvements rather than a static service. I use free open source services that improve on a regular basis. Why can't Tivo do that?

If they can't, why don't they create an API to let 3rd party developers do it for us? They could even open a Tivo App Store and charge money for the addons. if they add the features i want i'd be willing to pay.

Robbdoe1 · 12-10-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma

TiVo doesn't need 3rd party developers. Software is their core competence.

Funny stuff.

Robb

lrhorer · 12-10-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattack

There's a workaround for your channels I receive situation that has worked since S1. When in channels I receive, hit live TV.. go to the channel you care about, then LEFT back to the channels I receive list. Left will always take you back to the last menu you were in. It's very handy.

Yes, but unfortunately in the case of the channel lineup, it goes back to the top of the menu, not back where you were before in the list. (Actually, I don't think I have checked this since 11.0h rolled out. Maybe it has changed?)
For a while my CATV provider (TW CAble San Antonio) was adding and / or deleting about a half dozen channels a day. Talk about annoying!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattack

I do think it's funny that even you say Tivo is better than the others. It's really bizarre that nobody has even CAUGHT UP with a 10 year old product.

No one has caught up with the Japanese Katana, and it is some 3000 years old or so. We're not doing so well compared to the Parthenon or the architecture in the Egyptian Valley of the Kings, either.

In the case of the TiVo, though, it's not really ten years old. The improvements to the TiVo have lacked glitz and glamor - why anyone cares is beyond me - and has been slow and steady, rather than stuttering and explosive. Personally, I'll take slow and steady over stuttering and explosive any day, but the point is many people fail to realize just how much the Tivo has changed in ten years. Like watching a child grow, one simply doesn't really notice the changes from week to week, or even month to month.

The Tivo was a terific product whjen it was first introduced, but both the hardware and software of the original S1 TiVo are a far cry from the current hardare and software. Think of a high end 2000 year model vechile, say a Corvette or a Mustang. To be sure, the 2010 models have features not available on the 2000 year model, but the basic functionality is identical. The 2010 year model TiVo, OTOH, has a great deal more in the way not only of extra features but even in its core functionality. A short list of features not available on the first gen 2000 model TiVo:

Dual tuners
Wishlists
Built-in Ethernet port
HD capability
CableCards
200+ hours recording time
MRV / TTG / TTCB
Compound filters with "and" and "not" expressions
HMO
HME
Drive expansion
Keyboard support
MPEG4 / h.264

aadam101 · 12-10-2010, 06:56 PM

I voted no only because Tivo will find a way to screw it up.

lrhorer · 12-10-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

that's not strictly true. there are HD channels in the cable lineup. not hard to put 2 and 2 together and say "program A is showing the same episode on CBS and CBSHD, let's record the one on CBSHD". Come to think of it, Tivo DOES know which shows are in HD b/c it creates a folder in my "now playing" list that says "HD recordings".

Just because a channel is capable of delivering HD doesn't mean the content will be. TCM, for example, frequently broadcasts content in letterbox format, rather than native HD. Starz recently broadcast Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring with both letterbox and pillarbox bars. Interestingly, the latest broadcasts of the film on Starz - less than a week later - were full HD.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention - the HD Content folder places the shows in that folder based upon information in the content itself, not based upon any information received prior to reception of the program. OF COURSE the TiVo knows what sort of information is in the content it has already recorded. Figuring it out beforehand requires good information from Tribune Media.

lrhorer · 12-10-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

PAYING customers expect incremental improvements rather than a static service. I use free open source services that improve on a regular basis. Why can't Tivo do that?

See my post above, and dust off your memory cells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

If they can't, why don't they create an API to let 3rd party developers do it for us? They could even open a Tivo App Store and charge money for the addons. if they add the features i want i'd be willing to pay.

I suspect if they did, CableLabs would yank their CableLabs certification in a heartbeat. The CATV inductry is already grinding their teeth that they and they alone cannot provide all the software on every attached device. They would have a coronary at the thought of third party apps on CATV receivers.

lighthouse58 · 12-11-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrhorer

See my post above, and dust off your memory cells.

Wow. The point is that at least i'd have a better chance of getting the HD version if it recorded off channel xxxHD rather than channel xxx. if channel xxxHD occasionally shows SD content that's on them, not on Tivo. AND... it makes my life easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrhorer

I suspect if they did, CableLabs would yank their CableLabs certification in a heartbeat. The CATV inductry is already grinding their teeth that they and they alone cannot provide all the software on every attached device. They would have a coronary at the thought of third party apps on CATV receivers.

Really? I am a C O N S U M E R. Do you really think that I or most Tivo users give a flying cr@p about cablelabs? Do you really think that when people post a WISHLIST, they stop and think, "gee, how will this affect legal agreements b/w the various corporate entities?" This forum is one way in which we CONSUMERS can let the mfrs' know what we want. Give it to us and we'll give you money for it. if Tivo won't do it, then maybe someone will make something like myth or xbmc do it. and guess what? myth and xbmc aren't beholden to cablelabs. that puts pressure on cablelabs to make accommodations to Tivo.

JaneiR36 · 12-18-2010, 12:00 PM

I recently had to do some work on SPs on S2DT due to Comcast's digital migration. I wish there was an option to update the channel # in SPs, just say instead of 64, grab this SP off of 354. Instead I had to go Search for the programs all over again, some of which would not be coming up in the next two weeks so I'll have to either setup ARWs or come back and search again later. Then raise them back up to # XX on the SP list and delete the old SP. The "Please Wait"s also got to be just a bit annoying. Speaking of ARWs it was nice having the ones that I do, as they do not require an SP update.

I did take pictures of the SP list on the TV and used them while conducting my program searches. Those came in rather handy.

innocentfreak · 12-18-2010, 12:02 PM

You can on the Premiere now in the HD UI. It still has to be in the guide data though so it can list the channel options.

JaneiR36 · 12-18-2010, 12:35 PM

Cool! I got the $470 lifetime + box promo and I'm really convinced it's a great product, but the S2DT is still pretty awesome. I record so many shows on OTA channels and my fav networks (TNT USA Lifetime etc) repeat their new episodes at least once or twice per week, I'm just using the S2 some more till it becomes inadequate or I become super rich :-)

lrhorer · 12-19-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

Wow. The point is that at least i'd have a better chance of getting the HD version if it recorded off channel xxxHD rather than channel xxx. if channel xxxHD occasionally shows SD content that's on them, not on Tivo. AND... it makes my life easier.

This is transitional. Eventually virtually every channel will be HD. Until then, the TiVo has to rely on Tribune to get it right. If you are talking about channels that are broadcast in both HD and SD, then the solution is trivial: eliminate the SD channel from the list of channels you receive and the TiVo will never record from it. The only time this is even an issue is if XXX broadcasts the selection and YYYHD also broadcasts it. That's fairly rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

Really? I am a C O N S U M E R. Do you really think that I or most Tivo users give a flying cr@p about cablelabs?

It is not my problem, nor is it TiVo's that people are too lazy to stop and think before forming or expressing their desires. Asking for something only an idiot would consider providing is not the mark of a wise consumer, his internal desires notwithstanding. Consumer or not, it is childish and egocentric to criticize TiVo for not doing something which would be tantamount to financial suicide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

Do you really think that when people post a WISHLIST, they stop and think, "gee, how will this affect legal agreements b/w the various corporate entities?"

Which is why they are being screwed. If consumers considered such things, they would not buy the crap which fosters such inequities. If everyone stopped going to the theaters to watch movies, CableLabs would change their tune in a heartbeat. Until that time, CableLabs is going to do everything in its power to protect the near-trillion dollar motion picture industry from losing so much as penny, at least by their calculations. If that means dropping a competitor they were previously forced to support for spec violations, so much the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

This forum is one way in which we CONSUMERS can let the mfrs' know what we want. Give it to us and we'll give you money for it. if Tivo won't do it, then maybe someone will make something like myth or xbmc do it.

There is not a snowball's chance either of those will get CableLabs certification, so they won't be able to record anything at all unless it happens to be clear QAM. Not only that but so many of the very vocal people in this forum badly overestimate their following. Many people have whined incessantly how a 3rd tuner would be a cash cow for TiVo. Many others have whined incessanty how card-less Clear QAM support would overflow TiVo's coffers with money. Moxi has both. I guess people are just waiting until after Christmas to purchase hundreds of thousands of Moxis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouse58

and guess what? myth and xbmc aren't beholden to cablelabs. that puts pressure on cablelabs to make accommodations to Tivo.

Are you daft? First of all, no stand-alone DVR is going to be able to make it without CableLabs certification. Secondly, TiVo does not represent any revenue at all - not a penny - for the interests controlling CableLabs. They would be quite happy, indeed happier - if TiVo went out of business. TiVo relies almost entirely on CableLabs good graces for their income, but CableLabs gets almost nothing from the existence of TiVos. CableLabs is concerned about protecting the tens of billions of dollars of revenue of their parent CATV systems and the hundreds of billions of dollars of income of the MPAA. They could not care less about a few million dollars worth of revenue of a tiny competitor like TiVo and even less a minuscule competitor like a third party start-up or an open source hobbyist's platform, even if they were getting a cut from the revenue, which they are not.

lighthouse58 · 12-19-2010, 03:16 PM

For your information it is neither unwise or idiotic for consumers to let mfrs know what they want in exchange for their hard earned dollars. It IS idiotic for industries to ignore the wishes of the buyers. The media companies constantly display their cluelessness every time technology advances. It's just like how the vcr destroyed hollywood. Oh, wait, that didn't happen. You are probably the only member here who gives a crap about cable labs fortunes. If you go back and read my OP you'll see that I wasn't asking for anything that harms the rights holders. I just wanna make something I can do now easier. you're the only one here who seems to be concerned about the impending poverty of the media industry.

Btw, I received my new tivo premiere the other day and was pleasantly surprised when I started to move my SPs over. It turns out that for SPs that are currently in the schedule, tivo offered me a choice between my original SD channel and the corresponding HD channel. It was only for those shows that are not on the schedule for the next 14 days that I'm stuck.for those I would like the ability to manually set a channel--all without bankrupting hollywood. Imagine that.