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Old 09-30-2010, 01:41 AM   #1
justliloleme
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Tivo and Dish Network

Can I use Tivo Premiere and Dish Network? If so, how?

If so, do I still have to use the Dish network receivers or do I just use a cablecard from Dish?

Thanks in advance!

(I'm a newbie at Tivo but am somewhat gadget-tech friendly
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:33 AM   #2
caddyroger
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No a premiere can not be used with dish network. It only can be used for cable and over the air.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:23 AM   #3
justliloleme
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Originally Posted by caddyroger View Post
No a premiere can not be used with dish network. It only can be used for cable and over the air.
Why is that, exactly?

Not being argumentative-- I am really trying to understand why.

Thanks!
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justliloleme View Post
Why is that, exactly?

Not being argumentative-- I am really trying to understand why.

Thanks!
Cable, satellite and over the air uses different signals. The Tivo can only work on cable and over the air signals. I think Tivo is not allowed to use Dish or Directv signals.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:39 AM   #5
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Both sat companies use incompatible technologies than the CableLabs standard used by cable TV systems all over the countries. Also, NONE of TiVo's Hif-Def boxes (no cable or sat DVR's, either, including Moxi) have any inputs that would make possible for them to record from an external box like Series 2 did.

TiVo or any other company is free to design a DVR that works with satellite, but they don't because of a lack of standardization between DirecTV and Dish Network. They would have to have all sorts of hardware in the box to make it happen and be future proof to DirecTV and Dish software updates and, even hardware changes (QPSK to 8PSK to turbo-coding) and capacity to handle the Ka and Ku FSS that DirecTV and Dish use respectively for certain, but necessary channels for some packages and be able to handle DirecTV's Channel Stacking Switch technology and Dish Networks Band Stacking Switch technology, Digicyper, Videoguard, DBS, Nagravison, Mpeg2, Mpeg4, support for the different external HDD systems and features between TiVo, DirecTV, and Dish Network. In other words, the economies don't work for a 3rd party to manufacture and sell such a sat DVR loaded with the necessary hardware and memory trying to be all things to all services, especially when sat is giving away DVR's, and remember, cable still has the most customers, so economies work there.

That is one of the reasons it is taking so long to get the new DirecTiVo out when promised, and it has been delayed once again. But the economies do work for Moxi to build and sell its own DVR, but still can only work with cable TV (standardization is good) and, for the time being, at least, FiOS, and certainly no OTA.

Any further explanation gets complicated.

Last edited by Series3Sub : 09-30-2010 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:38 PM   #6
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No further explanation necessary.. ha!

Thanks so much for the insight!
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:54 AM   #7
B1GT1V0FAN
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IR control

It seems to me that people like me (5 different TiVo Series 2 boxes) who have DISH network receivers controlled by the TiVo IR would upgrade if TiVo would just have that IR control option. It would make TiVo Premiere available to anyone, now that would be economical. Anyone vs. only cable subscribers.

What about IR control of an external DishNetwork box? Why don't they have that on the Premiere? Come on TiVo i want to get rid of my awful DISH HD DVR.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by B1GT1V0FAN View Post
It seems to me that people like me (5 different TiVo Series 2 boxes) who have DISH network receivers controlled by the TiVo IR would upgrade if TiVo would just have that IR control option. It would make TiVo Premiere available to anyone, now that would be economical. Anyone vs. only cable subscribers.

What about IR control of an external DishNetwork box? Why don't they have that on the Premiere? Come on TiVo i want to get rid of my awful DISH HD DVR.
The Dish box does not output the compressed video signal that TiVo Premiere DVR is designed to record. It outputs a fully uncrompressed High Definition video stream via HDMI, which is only allowed (see HDCP) to be viewed and not recorded, or component. Secondly, that uncompressed signal would need to be recompressed by the TiVo DVR so that it would fit on the hard drive. The hardware to do this is only recently available and is quite expensive. So there are two hurdles, one TiVo would need get permission of the content providers and Dish to record the HDCP encrypted video stream, the very thing HDCP was created to prevent, or record component with analog signal degradation, and a new box would have to be designed with expensive compression hardware in it. The only currently available Component input HD recorder I know of, goes for about $1000.00, so that should give you an idea of the costs involved.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:05 PM   #9
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It is because, beginning with the Series 3, TiVo changed direction to have digital tuners, with analog NTSC tuners, to be a a direct digital antenna/cable DVR. Having SD A/V in would be confusing (and offer little benefit over a Series 2), ad an HD component would be expensive, and likely put them in some hot water with the studios and cable providers, which their apparent direction was to parnter with.

Oh, you can get manual component recorder/players for $300 or so. Avermedia sells one, without HDD. The Hauppauge HD-PVR sells for just over $200, but you use that with a PC.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #10
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When in doubt, blame the content providers.

But only if the cable company has an airtight alibi.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:31 AM   #11
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It is ALL ABOUT the content providers and HDCP and NOT wanting anyone to provide ANY inputs to record HD content. TiVo and nearly 100% of STB makers followed the content providers demands. I think the Happauge is one of the few devices where you can input from HD component to record in HD.

Remember, TiVo, Dish, DirecTV, and all the MSO's and ALL the set-top-box makers have to maintain a good relationship with the content owners as they DEPEND upon them for their business to be successful. All the MVPD's will obey or the copyright owners (mostly Hollywood studios) won't provide the content for their service.

As for TiVo, always crawling up the colon of the MSO's, they were most likely told by the MSO's who Hollywood told them how its going to be and Hollywood probably informed TiVo directly, and TiVo has always done everything it could to make copyright owners feel protected. Essentially Hollywood used it leverage to get what it wanted with all the MVPD's, but Hollywood doesn't have much leverage to use against Happauge as they don't depend on subscribers to content for their business. But the Happuge is hardly in any homes as most people access and record using MVPD provided devices or a 3rd party like Channel Master or TiVo, and the soon dead Moxi. Also, the day is coming when they will have, on command, the STB's either down-res or will turn-off the analog HD outputs for more and more content, making a device like the Happuge almost useless as the point of the Happauge is that you can record in HD.

Interesting that Dish's latest Whole Home DVR solution includes small clients for the remote rooms with HDMI or composite outputs, but NO COMPONENT output. I wonder why? But we all know why, don't we? It was that "or else" from the copyright owners. So, if the TV in the bedroom is an older HDTV with only the analog input . . . but Hollywood doesn't care about that.

Last edited by Series3Sub : 02-19-2012 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B1GT1V0FAN View Post
Come on TiVo i want to get rid of my awful DISH HD DVR.
I don't really get that, been with Dish since they had just one satelite, got a series 1 TiVo shortly after they came out, but after going HD years ago and going with the Dish 622, I have seen NO problems. The only thing that isn't there are the suggestions, but then I never used them anyway. Also my 622 had been working since I got it when Dish was starting HD, just now had to get a replacement when the HDMI connection went out.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:41 AM   #13
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Agree with you jimborst,
I enjoy my TiVo's, and I think they are easily the best DVR's for cord-cutters, but the curretn Dish ViP's are, overall, superior to TiVo. While you cited the Suggestions (which, if used like TiVo wants you to use it, can cause some SERIOUS system issues which I why I no longer use them, but never got more than 2 good suggestions over the years), I'll cite TiVo's still best of any competitor SEARCH features. No other DVR comes close. It is an extremely well done and powerful feature that makes TiVo stand out.

Now, forget the Dish ViP's. It is the coming (March 15) Hopper/Joey that puts Dish back with the best DVR/Whole Home solution of any MVPD or 3rd party DVR. It's just that TiVo could never get the huge critical mass that would have allowed it to invest in truly innovated upgrades to their product over the years with economies that were good. It will be a sad day when TiVo leaves the retail market and Mr. Rogers has made clear he intends to do. That will leave people with either the diminished Bright DVR or the way too expensive for "dumb" DVR from Channel Master. Moxi has also left the retail arena and will stop supporting the retail Moxi HD DVR's by the end of next year. Now, I would go for flying the flag at half-mast for that dark day when TiVo leaves retail .
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