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Old 02-02-2011, 10:41 AM   #631
L David Matheny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Since TiVo is never idle (the buffer is recording 24/7 on both tuners) the Intellipark feature is never implemented and never cycles
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
The Intellipark default setting on all WD GP hard drives is 8 seconds. For drives manufactured prior to 09/15/10 I always recommended using wdidle3.exe to adjust the setting to 5 minutes (/s300) having read a few horror stories about disabling it completely. That always took care of the boot/reboot issue without any apparent ill affects with respect to drive function or lifespan.

It's an easy fix for anyone wanting to change it again. Since it's a basic firmware change it won't affect any data.
This is where I get confused. If the Intellipark feature never activates in a TiVo because the drive is never idle (except when rebooting), how can there be horror stories about disabling it completely? What harm could that do? Have people maybe attempted to change this setting on an incompatible drive, with its firmware data values stored in different locations? That could certainly cause problems.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:26 PM   #632
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This is where I get confused. If the Intellipark feature never activates in a TiVo because the drive is never idle (except when rebooting), how can there be horror stories about disabling it completely? What harm could that do? Have people maybe attempted to change this setting on an incompatible drive, with its firmware data values stored in different locations? That could certainly cause problems.
Your first question is a really good one and if someone here doesn't chime in could probably be answered by someone on one of the hard drive forums. I've read stories about folks disabling Intellipark and then running a SMART diagnostic to find that the load cycles skyrocket. I have suspicions as to why that could happen, but my thoughts have no foundation in anything more than theory. As to your second question, I don't think that's possible, but again, I'd only be guessing.

Simply extending the timeout seems the logical step to prevent hanging at boot or reboot. Folks that have extended it haven't reported load cycle increases, etc. Whether or not those load cycles will eventually impact the performance or a drive's actual lifespan I don't know.

FWIW WD GP drives never had this problem until the autumn of 2009 when WD changed their firmware. TiVo itself was caught off guard when people's TiVo HDXL's began hanging after a version update. It took them about 60 days to resolve the problem with another version update. Along about March 2010 WD changed the firmware on their dedicated A/V GP drives so that Intellipark became a non-issue for TiVo upgrades. It wasn't until early September 2010 that they made (ostensibly) the same firmware change to the rest of their GP hard drive line.

Folks have actually installed pre-September 15, 2010 drives that have booted up normally, then tried a soft reboot and encountered the hang...and then tried to power cycle them (which used to work) and they hung then as well. It wasn't until they adjusted the Intellipark timeout that the drives would boot up and reboot from a menu restart. So it would seem that Intellipark was actually not active until the drive is first booted up on those particular drives. Once the timeout was extended they booted up and rebooted fine.

In other circumstances the drives (again pre-Sept 15 '10) wouldn't boot up at all. Once the Intellipark setting was changed (timeout extended or disabled) they booted and rebooted normally.

So it's been an odd road this past year-and-a-half or so. The good news is that whatever the issue was seems to have been resolved in early September, 2010. To date everyone that has performed an upgrade using a WD GP hard drive (both standard and A/V) manufactured after September 15th have not had to adjust the Intellipark setting and have not encountered the initial boot or soft reboot (menu restart) problem.

Last edited by richsadams : 02-02-2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Tyop…d'oh!
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:56 PM   #633
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Rich,

That's all great and would agree 100%. However, why does Tivo's original HD have the intellipark timer disabled?
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:07 PM   #634
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Your first question is a really good one and if someone here doesn't chime in could probably be answered by someone on one of the hard drive forums. I've read stories about folks disabling Intellipark and then running a SMART diagnostic to find that the load cycles skyrocket. I have suspicions as to why that could happen, but my thoughts have no foundation in anything more than theory. As to your second question, I don't think that's possible, but again, I'd only be guessing.

Simply extending the timeout seems the logical step to prevent hanging at boot or reboot. Folks that have extended it haven't reported load cycle increases, etc. Whether or not those load cycles will eventually impact the performance or a drive's actual lifespan I don't know.

<snip>

So it's been an odd road this past year-and-a-half or so. The good news is that whatever the issue was seems to have been resolved in early September, 2010. To date everyone that has performed an upgrade using a WD GP hard drive (both standard and A/V) manufactured after September 15th have not had to adjust the Intellipark setting and have not encountered the initial boot or soft reboot (menu restart) problem.
OK, thanks. I thought Intellipark was what initiated the park/load cycles, thus causing hangs when rebooting. I agree with you that, disabled or not, Intellipark should not be a factor in a drive that is continually writing video data. Eight seconds of HD video would be about 12MB, right? Could the old firmware have been so wrongheaded as to park the heads while the buffer was being filled? Of course, that would cause skyrocketing load cycle counts with Intellipark enabled, not disabled, so I still don't understand.

If I open the box again, maybe a good compromise would be the 300 seconds that you mentioned. Or (considering the time a TiVo takes to boot), maybe 600 seconds would provide a better cushion, if 600 is allowed.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:47 PM   #635
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Finally!

Well I finally found/made time to run Comer's program to upgrade our TiVo Premiere XL to 2TB's...happily and successfully! Details (pretty much like everyone else's):

- Hard drive: WD20EARS (from Amazon for $79.99 AR last month)
- Manufacture date: 10/14/10
- AAM: 254
- Intellipark timeout: 8 seconds
- Connections: Direct to 2 SATA ports on MB (older Dell PC w/2.79GHz P4)
- Copy time: 8 hours (1TB OEM - Transfer rates between 39,000 kB/s and 50,000 kB/s.)

I had run WD's Lifeguard extended diagnostic previously (took over 60 hours) to verify that there were no issues with the new drive. I also adjusted the AAM to 128 with HDDScan using a BlacX SATA/USB dock prior.

The jmfs copy/expand/supersize programs ran perfectly and as described.

Copied the OEM 1TB drive to the 2TB drive, no glitches, no errors. Expanded the 2TB drive and shut the system down. Disconnected the OEM drive, fired jmfs up again and ran Supersize. I did not adjust the Intellipark setting. Installed the drive and it successfully booted up and then successfully performed a menu restart. The initial boot process had to be performing some housekeeping as it was excruciatingly long at 10+ plus minutes. A second power cycle was normal.

Checked the original TiVo Drive, a WD10EVVS. The AAM was set to 128 (as would be expected of a dedicated A/V drive) and the timeout/idle setting was not enabled.

So we now have 317 hours of HD recording goodness. The original TiVo drive is sitting safely on the shelf for any future needs.

Thanks very much to Comer for a great program and to everyone here for all of the valuable input and feedback!

Last edited by richsadams : 02-03-2011 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:02 PM   #636
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Rich,

That's all great and would agree 100%. However, why does Tivo's original HD have the intellipark timer disabled?
At one time (fall of 2009) the Intellipark setting (known only as "idle timeout" at the time) was enabled on OEM 1TB hard drives installed in TiVo HDXL's (Premieres hadn't been released). As mentioned that caught TiVo with their collective pants down when they pushed a regular update and TiVo's hung on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Although they (TiVo) overcame the issue with an OS update for the TiVo HDXL's I suspect that it didn't sit well with TiVo that WD made a firmware change without notifying their customers. Based on how they "fixed" the issue with the THDXL's my WAG is that the OS now auto-disables the timeout on the first boot. Or they may have arranged to have new drives delivered w/o Intellipark enabled to avoid any issues in the future. I kind of doubt that WD is creating drives specifically for Tivo though. Although they buy quite a few, by comparison to the total out there, it seems more likely that the OS takes care of it because it would certainly increase raw materials costs otherwise. That's just speculation on my part though.

So my gut feeling is that disabling Intellipark on a WD A/V GP drive (WD20EURS for example) won't have any ill effects with respect to the performance or lifespan of the hard drive in question. How doing so might affect the standard WD GP drive series (WD20EARS for instance) I have no idea. It seems like it shouldn't make any difference, but the only folks that would really know work at WD. When this whole thing took off over a year ago several of us contacted WD to ask for an explanation. We all received e-mails (from the same or similarly named person ) that justified their dedication to save energy and so forth but never addressed our questions specifically. Subsequent e-mails to WD went unanswered.

So it's hard to say what's right or wrong or what settings will make a difference with respect to the Intellipark settings on WD drives manufactured prior to September 15, 2010 or so. Only time will tell. I'm just glad that the drives manufactured after that date no longer have to be tweaked.

Last edited by richsadams : 02-03-2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:00 PM   #637
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Just completed the upgrade to 2TB. It went ok. I think I touched one drive and the power glitched or something and I had to start over. But second time it finished ok and worked.

I started filling out the rebate on the WD drive and it asked for the serial # so I had to go back in and pull out the drive again.

The second time I powered back up the unit it seemed to hang on the "just a few minutes more" screen. I uplugged and rebooted and it started back up all the way.

So I'll see how it goes. But thanks much Comer and Rich. Actually it was a little easier than the the S3 upgrade because there was no interim step of putting the image on the computer hard drive. For the TP, it copies drive-to-drive.

I have the W20EARS. Is that the one that needs intellipark adjusted or anything? Bought it from newegg. I don't want to pull it out again and look at the manufacture date but I will if I have to.

Good job!
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:57 PM   #638
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I have the W20EARS. Is that the one that needs intellipark adjusted or anything?
The need to adjust the Intellipark setting depends on when the drive was manufactured. If it was after September 15th probably not. Since it booted up initially I'm guessing not but the only way to find out would be to perform a menu restart. If it boots up okay again then you're golden. If it hangs on the "Welcome!" screen and you don't want it to hang after TiVo pushes an update (you could power-cycle it to get it going again) you should adjust the Intellipark setting.

As mentioned earlier I almost gave up on the first boot up after I upgraded. TiVo stayed on the "Almost there..." screen for well over 10 minutes. I decided to let it go and it finally booted up. I put my ear to the case and could hear the hard drive working while I was waiting so I suspect there was some housekeeping going on. (A hang will generally result in silence from the hard drive.) The second time I power-cycled it, it booted up in the normal amount of time, maybe 3 to 4 minutes or so. It was painful waiting that first time though.

Congrats and enjoy!
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:43 PM   #639
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Short answer is that HDDScan works for setting the AAM with a USB dock. I've done it a few times as have lots of others here. My only guess in your case is that the SATA bridge might be getting in the way. Try it with the fancy new Voyager dock and I'll bet it'll work.
Indeed it did! Thanks...

Copying from 320 GB to 2TB drive now... via USB... it's been taking many hours. But I'm patient!
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #640
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The need to adjust the Intellipark setting depends on when the drive was manufactured. If it was after September 15th probably not. Since it booted up initially I'm guessing not but the only way to find out would be to perform a menu restart. If it boots up okay again then you're golden. If it hangs on the "Welcome!" screen and you don't want it to hang after TiVo pushes an update (you could power-cycle it to get it going again) you should adjust the Intellipark setting.

[...]
It hangs up on the menu reboot but not the unplug reboot. I'm going to check the manufacture date tomorrow. I didn't bother to check since it was newegg and they should have gone through their prior 9-15 stock by now. Works fine otherwise. Can I use widdle on windows to check it or do I have to do something with the linux disc?
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:16 AM   #641
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It hangs up on the menu reboot but not the unplug reboot. I'm going to check the manufacture date tomorrow. I didn't bother to check since it was newegg and they should have gone through their prior 9-15 stock by now. Works fine otherwise. Can I use widdle on windows to check it or do I have to do something with the linux disc?
It does sound like you'll need to adjust the Intellipark timeout. More in Section IV, #29 here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...60#post5616160

My recommendation is to set the timeout to 300 seconds (5 minutes). The setting is "/s300" (without the quotes).

I've only used the DOS boot disk, but I'm sure if you download the Windows version it should work.

Let us know what the manufacture date is and how things go. TIA!
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:10 AM   #642
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My recommendation is to set the timeout to 300 seconds (5 minutes). The setting is "/s300" (without the quotes).
I have made it a point to turn my CAPS LOCK on when using wdidle3.exe. In doing so, I have /D (Disabled) the Idle Timer, with no ill effects. I did read somewhere that it is case sensitive.

People need to also be aware that there are multiple versions floating around out there. I've been using v1.05, and always check for a newer version, direct from WD, before proceeding.

I have done this with drives manufactured last year, as well as the year before that, and a couple manufactured recently.

Best of luck to all.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:20 AM   #643
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[...]
Let us know what the manufacture date is and how things go. TIA!
Well it successfully menu rebooted twice this morning. Don't know what happened yesterday because I let it sit for a long time twice. Maybe like yours it just had a lot of housekeeping to do. I dunno but I'll try again and meanwhile probably order another one for my other TP. Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:21 AM   #644
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Thumbs up perfect instructions

Thank you Comer for your software and detailed instructions. It was reassuring when your software recognizes the original TIVO disk and the new disk and walks you through the process.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:56 PM   #645
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Success! Took a long time for the copy... almost 12 hours or so, I did it on an old Windows laptop, via USB... but I now have 317 hours of HD goodness on my new (iPad empowered) TiVo Premiere! I'm a happy camper. I soft rebooted, and all seems well. (My 2TB drive had an October 15 manufacturer date.) I just used the online Season Pass Manager to transfer over my season passes. Now to let it start gathering content, and it'll be the primary DVR in my house.

I've been going through the old shows on my 750 GB Series 3 TiVo, and will probably end up selling it off soon.

Thanks SO much to comer for making this tool -- I've upgraded TiVo's in the past, but this tool was just so much easier (and more straightforward) than any one has ever been in the past. It rocks!

And thanks too goes out to richsadams, for being a real beacon of support and encouragement. Your help and patience is appreciated!
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:40 PM   #646
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Excellent to hear all of the success stories! S/b a great weekend for a lot of folks.

BTW, don't forget to donate to Comer's charity beer fund (link on the original post).

Enjoy!
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:07 PM   #647
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Greetings all! I am reading my way through all the posts in this thread and can't wait to try this on my TiVo Premiere! I have a few questions to jump start me as I read through all the posts.

1 - Is this drive still a good choice? (http://amzn.to/gYeyhx)

2 - Will I need to tweak the hard drive with the "wdidle.exe" or "hddscan" tools?

3 - What size torx driver do I need to perform the surgery? Torx 10?

4 - The newest version of the software will "supersize" the drive, right?

5 - Will all my settings, cable card pairings, Season Passes, ratings, wishlists and recordings copy over?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:27 PM   #648
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I finally got my round tuit! I had gotten to the point that my Premiere was telling me that it wouldn't record anything new because it wouldn't have any space.

I tried using my dual SATA dock on my original Intel Macbook Pro. It took some reasearch to get it to boot from CD. (Hold down the C key at boot, and the keyboard has to connect directly - not through a hub.)

If only I had read this far before I ran into:

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredqwest View Post
JMFS only recognizes 1 drive in a dual bay dock. Because the underlying Linux OS it uses does not support USB port multiplying. Same thing happens with a Blacx Duet on a USB port.
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They do, of course. That particular driver is missing from the distrib I used to put JMFS together.
The symptoms I had were it would say "cannot enumerate USB hub." It would see the original Tivo drive but once I connected the new drive, JMFS copy complained that the TiVo disk was not readable.

I tried using an old, non-hard-drive-bootable Dell laptop. Same symptoms.

Being Mr. hard drives, I looked around and tore apart my fairly newly built USB - SATA DVD burner.

With each disk dock plugged into each USB port it worked! The copy took about 5 hours at 14-15Kbps. I went right through to SuperSize.

I was so confident on not getting any errors I even installed the disk and put in all of the screws in the Premiere enclosure. Man that first boot takes a long time. I think I lost a few more hairs.

Success!

THANKS Artem!

Is it sad that getting 327 HD hours seems to be not tenuf? My first jolly geek moment was going to the HD UI and seeing that what was the 99% totally full disk is now at 14% used.

Notes: I have a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2 TB "Green" "AV drive." It didn't need any firmware changes. I note that the original 320GB TiVo OEM drive is also a WD Green Drive.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:38 PM   #649
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Greetings all! I am reading my way through all the posts in this thread and can't wait to try this on my TiVo Premiere! I have a few questions to jump start me as I read through all the posts.

1 - Is this drive still a good choice? (http://amzn.to/gYeyhx)

2 - Will I need to tweak the hard drive with the "wdidle.exe" or "hddscan" tools?

3 - What size torx driver do I need to perform the surgery? Torx 10?

4 - The newest version of the software will "supersize" the drive, right?

5 - Will all my settings, cable card pairings, Season Passes, ratings, wishlists and recordings copy over?

Thanks in advance!
Well...let's see here...

1. A fine choice...it's working for me and plenty of other folks here.

2. If the drive was manufactured prior to 09/15/10 you may may need to adjust the Intellipark timeout setting. FWIW I bought the same drive from Amazon about a month ago and the one I received was manufactured on 10/14/10 and did not require the adjustment. You may want to run HDDScan to adjust the AAM to 128 to match the A/V drive acoustics.

3. 10

4. Yes, on a TiVo Premiere or Premiere XL.

5. Yes...jmfs performs a direct data copy so everything remains intact.

Happy upgrading!
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:48 PM   #650
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I finally got my round tuit! .
Congrats!

P.S. That first boot is a bit of a nail biter! Life is good now though eh?
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:42 PM   #651
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Well...let's see here...

1. A fine choice...it's working for me and plenty of other folks here.

2. If the drive was manufactured prior to 09/15/10 you may may need to adjust the Intellipark timeout setting. FWIW I bought the same drive from Amazon about a month ago and the one I received was manufactured on 10/14/10 and did not require the adjustment. You may want to run HDDScan to adjust the AAM to 128 to match the A/V drive acoustics.

3. 10

4. Yes, on a TiVo Premiere or Premiere XL.

5. Yes...jmfs performs a direct data copy so everything remains intact.

Happy upgrading!
Don't forget Torx 15, you need it to open the hard drive bracket
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:59 PM   #652
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Congrats, netringer!

Quote:
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Is it sad that getting 327 HD hours seems to be not tenuf? .
Pretty sure mine reported 317, and I supersized.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:41 AM   #653
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Pretty sure mine reported 317, and I supersized.
You are correct sir.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:53 AM   #654
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Don't forget Torx 15, you need it to open the hard drive bracket
My 10 worked ok on the HD bracket.
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Old 02-06-2011, 08:59 AM   #655
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10 worked fine for me as well. Just be careful not to strip the head.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:36 AM   #656
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Don't forget Torx 15, you need it to open the hard drive bracket
TiVo stopped using Torx 15 on Series3's. AFAIK all screws are now Torx 10, case, bracket, drive, everything.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:30 PM   #657
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TiVo stopped using Torx 15 on Series3's. AFAIK all screws are now Torx 10, case, bracket, drive, everything.
All the TPs I have worked on have T15 on the drive bracket, and i never saw a T10 on a TiVo-HD drive bracket, worked on one made in Nov of 2009 and it had a T15 on the drive bracket. You can make a T10 work if the T15 screw is not too tight.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:44 PM   #658
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All the TPs I have worked on have T15 on the drive bracket, and i never saw a T10 on a TiVo-HD drive bracket, worked on one made in Nov of 2009 and it had a T15 on the drive bracket. You can make a T10 work if the T15 screw is not too tight.
Hmmm...I've upgrade a my own Premiere XL (pre-ordered at introduction) and a Premiere (purchased last month)...both only used Torx 10's. Our TiVo HD had all Torx 10's as well.

Must be some different builds out there. If that's the case having a Torx 15 handy would be a good idea...can't hurt.
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Old 02-06-2011, 02:59 PM   #659
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All the TPs I have worked on have T15 on the drive bracket, and i never saw a T10 on a TiVo-HD drive bracket, worked on one made in Nov of 2009 and it had a T15 on the drive bracket. You can make a T10 work if the T15 screw is not too tight.
Agreed...T15 still in use on the drive bracket itself (where it connects to the drive, not the motherboard).
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:55 PM   #660
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I ordered a Premiere XL from Woot yesterday, and I'd like to add as much drive space as possible. After reading this thread, it appears that 2TB is the max total size regardless of whether the box is a standard Premiere or XL. But I did see one post near the beginning that said the barrier is 2TB plus the original drive size. Does that mean that it should be possible to get an XL to 3TB total size?

Assuming I'm limited to 2TB total, I need to decide if I'm going to replace the internal drive with a 2TB or just add a 1TB DVR Expander drive. Replacing the internal avoids a second point of potential failure. But adding the external gives me the same 2TB of total storage while keeping the box in a 100% supported configuration.

Are there other advantages or disadvantages to either solution that I'm missing?

Thanks!
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