"Senior vs. Junior: American Chopper" (spoilers)

[EvilMidniteBombr]

Originally Posted by vertigo235

At least Jr's future client

Spoiler:

GEICO

is a real nationally known company!

Spoiler:

I wonder if PJr is getting paid for that one or if it's going to be in exchange for them carrying insurance on Mikey? LOL!

[bareyb]

Originally Posted by Malcontent

I thought the call to Mikey complaining about his not showing up was a ruse to get him to the shop to surprise him with the art supplies.

Well yeah. It was. Bad example.

But he's been kind of playing the part of "Senior" with Mikey on other issues this season.

[bareyb]

Originally Posted by marksman

It is scary what OCC has had builds for this season.

A ridiculous web company, Window World, a build in exchange for welding equipment and now a build for a tv show.

I know they have done some of that stuff before, but it seems they literally have no legitimate theme customers.

It's amazing how fast something can go from red hot to stone cold. I think once people actually began buying Customs the word got out on how unreliable they tend to be and a bunch of them ended up on Cycle Trader. Factor in the bad economy and the family squabbles at OCC and overnight it just tanked. Crazy.

[marksman]

Yeah about the future client, I had heard that, and I bet it pissed Senior off, because perhaps the only legitimate client out there and Junior gets the deal.

The reality is everyone should be merged back together and Paulie should be put in complete charge of theme bike builds. Senior can manage everything else... and Mikey can be used for PR...

It will not happen though, because Senior is too much of a control freak, and has too narrow a view of how a business can work and be run.

[gastrof]

Last night's episode...

I'm a little surprised about Mikey being so blunt on the radio. Sure didn't help with any potential healing.

And what was with Paulie's face in several scenes? Did he burn off his eyebrows or something?

Nice that he got the Geiko bike, tho'. Since we're seeing this months later, the final look of the bike's already known, and it sure shows what PJD can do. It had the same inventiveness we've always seen from OCC bikes.

Wonder what that suggests?

[vertigo235]

Originally Posted by gastrof

Last night's episode...

I'm a little surprised about Mikey being so blunt on the radio. Sure didn't help with any potential healing.

And what was with Paulie's face in several scenes? Did he burn off his eyebrows or something?

Nice that he got the Geiko bike, tho'. Since we're seeing this months later, the final look of the bike's already known, and it sure shows what PJD can do. It had the same inventiveness we've always seen from OCC bikes.

Wonder what that suggests?

It was also interesting to see nubs apprehension to partner up with Jr. I don't remember the falling out that happened between him and occ but it seemed to have a lasting impression on him.

[hyimted]

i gave up, deleted my season pass .... the show's just not what it used to be. if i wanna watch a family fight, i'll watch the kardashians (sp?).

[SeanC]

Originally Posted by marksman

The reality is everyone should be merged back together and Paulie should be put in complete charge of theme bike builds. Senior can manage everything else... and Mikey can be used for PR...

That is about the most perfect business plan that they could possibly have. Seriously, that would be awesome, and I think pretty damn profitable for all concerned, but you're right, Sr would never do it.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

Originally Posted by vertigo235

It was also interesting to see nubs apprehension to partner up with Jr. I don't remember the falling out that happened between him and occ but it seemed to have a lasting impression on him.

I don't think they aired the final falling out. I do remember early on in the series the first time PSr fired Nub. I don't recall what it was over (deadlines I think) but it was before they built the FDNY Bike.

They dumped Nubby the second time around the time they had the new building finished. I wish they would go into some detail as to what PSr reason was to stop using Nubs.


The more I watch this new season. The more I am convinced that Senior is a delusional ******bag. Mikey and Junior are correct that OCC would not be where they are now if it weren't for Juniors designs. It is his creative talent that got them recognized and made them famous. Jason Poole is talented, but his a$$ wouldn't be working there if it weren't for the work that Junior did prior to Jason joining the company.

I'd L-O-V-E to see Rick get the hell out of OCC and work for Junior. Maybe that would help Sr wake up.

[vertigo235]

I found myself skipping right over the occ stuff

Im only ontrested in the pjr side of the show now.

I always thought that it was the kids that were immature but man sr sure is proving me wrong with every episode.

[Test]

Did Jr say Cody was going to start working there? It sounded like he said "odi" was going to help make the deadline, I was thinking that's his nickname or I missed the c oooor I'm just way off.

[Brent W]

Originally Posted by Test

Did Jr say Cody was going to start working there? It sounded like he said "odi" was going to help make the deadline, I was thinking that's his nickname or I missed the c oooor I'm just way off.

In the group, when Jr announced the Gieko bike, there was a guy on the edge who may have been Cody. It was someone we haven't been introduced to yet, and his build type did match Cody's, but I couldn't really see the face.

[Gerryex]

Hi ALL,

While I am not a motorcycle person, I've been watching this show for many years. I just like watching the builds and the personalities.

I must now say the Sr is totally rewriting history!! ABSOLUTELY all of the custom builds (at least the ones on the show) were designed by Jr. Jason is a talented computer draftsman, but that is ALL he is. In all of the designs Jr would tell Jason what to draw up and then Jr would review his drawings and have Jason make any changes that Jr wanted. Sure Jason might make some suggestions, but many times Jr would veto them and have Jason do what Jr wanted.

For Sr and Jason to say that Jr was not the primary driving force behind the designs is just plain wrong!! I've always thought that Sr was way to arbitrary in picking fights with Jr and now Sr just seems to be obsessed with saying and doing anything negative against Jr. Sure Jr's work ethic is way different than Sr's but he still got all of the builds done on time.

Lastly, Jr can put in the extra effort if needed - for example coming in at 5 AM!!! By the way, I don't think the shop area is air conditioned and that's why Jr's face was all sweaty in the close ups!

Gerry

[WhiskeyTango]

Originally Posted by Test

Did Jr say Cody was going to start working there? It sounded like he said "odi" was going to help make the deadline, I was thinking that's his nickname or I missed the c oooor I'm just way off.

I think there was a guy named Odi that used to work at OCC. Maybe Jr poached another former OCC employee.

With Jr starting from scratch, his business is looking more like what OCC did when the show first started. By that I mean, hand done work and more detail instead of the 'cookie cutter' style used by OCC.

[windracer]

Originally Posted by Gerryex

By the way, I don't think the shop area is air conditioned and that's why Jr's face was all sweaty in the close ups!

This. He mentioned it was 100 degrees or so in there and I think even Mikey was overly sweaty in a few of the interviews. All that cash he laid out for the equipment but no AC?

Originally Posted by vertigo235

I found myself skipping right over the occ stuff
Im only ontrested in the pjr side of the show now.

I'm starting to agree. Watching Vinnie and Paul Jr. work on the tank took me back to the early seasons of the show which showed more of the fabrication work (back then most of the bikes were two-part episodes).

And I know I probably should have known this, but just yesterday did I finally figure out the Paul Jr. Designs logo. I had no idea what that image was supposed to mean but now I see it's a stylized Jr.

How long will the spider survive before they decide to put it in the flowjet or shoot it out an air cannon?

[EvilMidniteBombr]

The new guy is Odie (i think that's how they spelled it) and he was actually interviewed on camera one or two episodes back. But definitely not Cody from OCC and V Force Customs.

[DanB]

Originally Posted by vertigo235

I found myself skipping right over the occ stuff

Im only ontrested in the pjr side of the show now.

I always thought that it was the kids that were immature but man sr sure is proving me wrong with every episode.

Thats what I do also. I hope the producers are getting the viewing habits data from Tivo

[DanB]

Sr should remember what he said about Vinnie -- "Everyone is replaceable." It applies to you also Sr.

[gastrof]

Cody isn't on the show because he got cheated on his appearances. He was in nearly 100 episodes before he left, and up to now has only been paid for about 30 of them.

OCC also took back the bike that Sr. gave Cody after helping him build it.

Cody's suing OCC (and possibly Pilgrim films) for the money due him and for the value of the bike.

This might be why he's still over at Vinnie's (is still pictured at the V-Force website) and not at PJD. Probably no problem with him and Jr., but maybe with Pilgrim.

[gastrof]

Originally Posted by EvilMidniteBombr

...Jason Poole is talented, but his a$$ wouldn't be working there if it weren't for the work that Junior did prior to Jason joining the company...

Even Jason, in response to the radio interview, admitted that Paulie was the one who, at the beginning, was the source of OCC's bike designs. Of course, by saying this he's suggesting the company can make it fine without Jr., but at least is admitting who it was who put OCC's designs "on the map".

[bareyb]

Gotta give Junior props for his newly inspired work ethic. I had a feeling once the money that was going down the drain was HIS he'd change his ways. As is usually the case, he's probably more like his Dad than he wants to admit. I think doing his own thing is going to be good for them both to see if from the other's perspective.

I think on some level Senior has to be a little proud of him, even if he won't admit it publicly. I think a lot of his BS about Paul and Mikey having nothing to do with building the brand is just him posturing for the court case. I'd like to see senior do the right thing here and pay Paulie off. Let his kid spread his wings and fly. Or crash...

[marksman]

I am guessing Nubs falling out happened when they built the new world headquarters and I think Senior offered him the position to come work for him as an in house painter. What happened from there other than Nubs not wanting to do it, I don't know.

To me it seems like the show is back to the middle age formula. You have real bike building going on at PJD, and you have the Mikey comic relief/killing time happening at OCC. OCC has essentially turned into Mikey for the purposes of the show. I hope Senior does not figure it out too soon.

I really liked seeing the work on the web bike. I have seen the final bike, and did not blow me away (probably looks better when I see it on tv then on small pictures from a distance), but I really liked the design and the work going into it.

I agree it is interesting to see Jr's work ethic, but I don't think Jr lacked a work ethic, I think he just avoided the shop because he didn't want to deal with his dad's behavior towards him all the time.

Also as I mentioned before, Sr.'s idea that the only way to run a business is to have everyone work from 7:00am to 5:00pm is dumb. Look what Paulie did with the power situation. They worked before and after the deal and that was that.

I think OCC is going to have issues with theme building going forward. Unless they can undercut PJRD, I don't know how most people would look at the two options, look at their latest work and pick to go with OCC for something like that.

For next week:

Spoiler:

It is crazy they showed Lee coming back and apparently going to go work for Paul Jr, and then getting, seemingly, stolen, by Senior.

[bareyb]

I think as long as they both have a TV show, they will find plenty of customers who want their brand name on national TV. I think both companies are in big trouble once the shows are really off the air. Custom bike shops are doing very poorly these days... Here's hoping this new show has a good long run and things eventually work out well for all of them.

[SullyND]

Who was the younger painter they had (I think) between nubs previous stints? I remember he was pretty good too.

[marksman]

Justin I think? Justin I believe is also suing Orange County Choppers for using his artwork on T-Shirts and other items that they have sold.

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by marksman

Justin I think?

Yeah - Justin was his name. He does some really nice work.

[IJustLikeTivo]

Originally Posted by marksman

Also as I mentioned before, Sr.'s idea that the only way to run a business is to have everyone work from 7:00am to 5:00pm is dumb. Look what Paulie did with the power situation. They worked before and after the deal and that was that.

Sr's issue is trust. He fundamentally thinks that if he isn't watching, the guys will stop working. That's why he insists on having them all there at the same time. He doesn't get the ides of empowering them to go out and work as they worm best. My grandfather ran a number of businesses over the years and his basic philosophy was to hire the best people and empower them to work hard. His job was to clear obstacles not monitor their work.

[vertigo235]

Lee inferred tonight that the reason he doesn't work for OCC anymore is because he didn't sign a contract.

I sure hope that Rick didn't sign a no compete contract, but I'm afraid he has.

[marksman]

Yeah I was thinking about the contract thing. Looking back on how they had contracts for Mikey and Jr. it makes sense that the bad idea trickled down to the entire staff.

Not even a no compete, but does a motorcycle mechanic/builder need an employmeny contract? Seems unnecessary.

That being said, without further explanation, Lee seems like a major jerk off...

I suspect he thought he was going to just come up and screw around for a week and not actually have to work hard.

[nataylor]

Senior just comes off as a total ass. Junior might be lazy and a bit of diva, but that pales in comparison to Senior actively trying to screw up his son's business.