Cox To Allow VOD Through Retail Premieres

csm10495 · 08-11-2010, 11:24 PM

I thought this was interesting, maybe other providers will join this new club. Hopefully other providers will eventually make the same deals, considering this is really the kind of thing TiVo needs to do to better attract the average consumer. anyone think this will also fix SDV at least for Cox?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/12/c...irst-with-cab/

innocentfreak · 08-11-2010, 11:31 PM

yeah this is definitely interesting. I wonder what they will charge for the Premiere Rentals since they will be offering those also.

csm10495 · 08-11-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innocentfreak

yeah this is definitely interesting. I wonder what they will charge for the Premiere Rentals since they will be offering those also.

hmm, maybe rent it through Cox or buy through anyone else(Best buy, Amazon, TiVo....

innocentfreak · 08-12-2010, 12:46 AM

I must have misread one of the other links. It sounds like it will only be retail boxes. They just won't charge truckrolls or installation fees.

drevilkep · 08-12-2010, 06:22 AM

As a subscriber in a Cox market, this is awesome news. I also have an idea now why my CableCARD install went so smoothly in my TiVo HD.

I also haven't seen the $30 truck roll charge on my bill yet, but that could just be a delay. Now the real question is, since I'm in the 30 day return window with TiVO, do I return the HD for a Premier, or keep it for bedroom use down the road? Also, I wonder what this will mean for the copy-protect flag, as they say MRV will also be supported.

ZeoTiVo · 08-12-2010, 09:52 AM

Very nice indeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by from article linked by OP

that will see allow retail CableCARD equipped TiVo Premiere DVRs to access Cox's VOD, as well as all that over the top internet video we've come to love. The SeaChange powered VOD will work similarly to RCN's, but we're waiting to see if this can give the new universal search an extra source to pull from as well. The deal also means Cox will cross promote the TiVo in its own marketing, and provide free installs for units purchased at Best Buy and other outlets including the TiVo website.

If I was on COX no question I would have a premiere as my main DVR if not elsewhere as well

steve101 · 08-12-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csm10495

I thought this was interesting, maybe other providers will join this new club. Hopefully other providers will eventually make the same deals, considering this is really the kind of thing TiVo needs to do to better attract the average consumer. anyone think this will also fix SDV at least for Cox?

Wish verizon fios would wake up and do this - they use SeaChange for VOD.

drevilkep · 08-12-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve101

Wish verizon fios would wake up and do this - they use SeaChange for VOD.

Unlikely as they have spent much time and money advertising their VOD and UI as being "better than the cable company", plus they already have things like MRV. Cox had very little VOD, the crappy SARA DVR with the old-school interface, and no MRV tech. Cox seems to be using TiVo as the way to rectify that. I could see TWC, who is in a similar boat pick up Tivo. Comcast already is in limited markets, but it sucks, so they could upgrade that and roll it out to more customers. Interestingly, I'm in a market that offers both Cox and FiOS, but FiOS hasn't made it to my development just yet (it's coming this winter, supposedly). I was dead-set on switching to FiOS as soon as I could because of the lack of SDV and no copy protect flag, but this announcement has made me reconsider. I also think that my area might be one of the "test areas" they mentioned. The CSR I talked to when I canceled my DVR service said "Oh don't do that, we're getting a whole new DVR this FALL that will have MRV and streaming JUST LIKE TIVO". We'll see...

davezatz · 08-12-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drevilkep

I also think that my area might be one of the "test areas" they mentioned. The CSR I talked to when I canceled my DVR service said "Oh don't do that, we're getting a whole new DVR this FALL that will have MRV and streaming JUST LIKE TIVO".

Yeah, they're doing a brand new UI with whole home DVR functionality on Cisco hardware (link). Doubt the CSRs know anything about the TiVo VOD project yet.

drevilkep · 08-12-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezatz

Yeah, they're doing a brand new UI with whole home DVR functionality on Cisco hardware (link). Doubt the CSRs know anything about the TiVo VOD project yet.

Well that looks... nice, actually. So their plan is to support 3 types of DVR/Set top boxes? A cable company that is offering its customers a choice of STB?

Someone pinch me.

AlphaDelta · 08-12-2010, 01:46 PM

So what's different about the Premier that it can do VOD and other TiVo's can't?

drevilkep · 08-12-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaDelta

So what's different about the Premier that it can do VOD and other TiVo's can't?

Probably nothing other than the fact that it helps TiVo sell boxes. I don't really care as this means that Cox tech support will (theoretically) have knowledge about Tivo, CableCARDs, and tuning adapters and will be better able to support those technologies. Perhaps we'll see an end to truck rolls for CableCARD installs, or at least updates when you change equipment?

Dan203 · 08-12-2010, 03:08 PM

This may just be rumor but I heard that with the old UI it was very difficult for them to add new features because it was not well designed from a software development perspective. So it's possible that they're only going to be able to offer VOD on the premiere via the new UI.

There is also some speculation that the Premiere is Tru2Way compliant. So perhaps that's why they're able to do VOD on the Premiere and not the S3/HD.

Or, like drevilkep said, maybe it's just a ploy to sell new boxes. :shrug:

Dan

slowbiscuit · 08-13-2010, 06:37 AM

The Premiere is not tru2way compliant, because it doesn't have the DOCSIS hardware to support upstream comms. tru2way is a bust anyway, at least at retail.

davezatz · 08-13-2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowbiscuit

The Premiere is not tru2way compliant, because it doesn't have the DOCSIS hardware to support upstream comms. tru2way is a bust anyway, at least at retail.

This is not based on fact, merely my interpretation of silences and funny looks plus a large dose of speculation. But I suspect TiVo has or had a backup plan to enable tru2way support via a USB DOCSIS accessory if it were ever needed. But with the tuning adapter, as crappy as it is, out there and on demand services being worked out via IP back channels with providers like RCN and Cox, I doubt we'll ever see such an animal. Remember that slide from the Premiere launch which showed Comcast On Demand? Not such a stretch anymore...

ZeoTiVo · 08-13-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezatz

This is not based on fact, merely my interpretation of silences and funny looks plus a large dose of speculation. But I suspect TiVo has or had a backup plan to enable tru2way support via a USB DOCSIS accessory

the TV tru2way prototypes have been ended and no newer models on the way.
Tru2way?

He's dead Jim!

Johncv · 08-13-2010, 05:39 PM

The paragraph I find interesting is this:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...75&Symbol=TIVO

“In addition to having access to Cox's vast VOD library and Advanced TV content, subscribers using a TiVo Premiere box will also be able to enjoy TiVo's entire suite of advanced features including access to near infinite broadband content including movies and music, remote scheduling, multi-room viewing, interactive applications and TiVoToGo functionality.“

How do you interpret this, is Cox going to end the misuse of the copy protection bit?

Johncv · 08-13-2010, 06:13 PM

Found this also:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cox-to....html?x=0&.v=6

“It will work with new and existing TiVo Premieres. TiVo began selling the Premiere, which starts at $300, in March.“

Can not afford to take advantage of the current TiVo deal right now.

CuriousMark · 08-13-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johncv

"...multi-room viewing, interactive applications and TiVoToGo functionality.“

How do you interpret this, is Cox going to end the misuse of the copy protection bit?

I strongly doubt it. I suspect only locals will get the ability, but that would not stop them from touting even that ability.

moyekj · 08-13-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johncv

The paragraph I find interesting is this:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...75&Symbol=TIVO

“In addition to having access to Cox's vast VOD library and Advanced TV content, subscribers using a TiVo Premiere box will also be able to enjoy TiVo's entire suite of advanced features including access to near infinite broadband content including movies and music, remote scheduling, multi-room viewing, interactive applications and TiVoToGo functionality.“

How do you interpret this, is Cox going to end the misuse of the copy protection bit?

What misuse? Depends which headend is serving you I suppose. Here in Orange County, CA Cox has no copy protection set on any channel other than premiums, PPV & VOD.

Johncv · 08-14-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moyekj

What misuse? Depends which headend is serving you I suppose. Here in Orange County, CA Cox has no copy protection set on any channel other than premiums, PPV & VOD.

That my point, ALL the service provider should not have any copy protection set on any channel other then premiums, PPV, and VOD. I could be wrong, but as I understood it the copy protection was only to be set when the service provider receive a written request from the producers a show, not from studio providing the show or the channel showing it.

classicsat · 08-15-2010, 09:20 AM

My interpretation is nothing more than that Cox will allow the TiVo to have all the networking features they now have, including 3rd party video services, in addition to VOD/PPV/SDV through SeaChange, unlike leased boxed

MRV copy protection rules will still stand, although it may be possible Cox may relax the setting of CP status as part of the deal.

moyekj · 08-15-2010, 11:08 AM

I think this deal may be related to the fact that the TiVo/Cox DVR with TiVo software on Cox bought hardware (Moto or Cisco) never materialized and also due to the TiVo/Comcast disaster. This new deal is still a win/win for both sides but with much less co-dependence to get things working. I think Cox is already using SeaChange for VOD (at least in this area), so that may have made things easier for the VOD portion to be worked out as well.
Personally I don't care about VOD or the Amazon pay per view model but the extra commitment from Cox to support TiVo users along with no truck roll fees is a good thing. Hopefully it will also lead to not requiring a truck roll at all to get CableCards installed in a TiVo as is still the case. Ideally just pick up a CableCard at a Cox store or have them mail one to the home and then let user pair it online via web site or a quick call.

thebigshow · 08-17-2010, 08:01 PM

Here in Phoenix, Cox has a broadcast flag on every channel that isn't part of the basic package. I tried hard to fight them on this and they told me the copyright holders insisted on the broadcast flag to prevent copyright violations. I asked how moving a show from one tivo to another violated a copyright....silence. I hope that they will remove the broadcast flags once and for all. I have no problem with HBO being blocked out but if I pay for the daily show, I want to watch it whenever, wherever.

I am curious though how Cox is doing this since it doesn't appear that the premier was an upgrade in hardware, only a software change. So other than greed, I'm not sure why they couldn't do the same for people like myself who don't want to give up their Tivo HD XL cause it costs an a..load of money.

mattack · 08-17-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigshow

Here in Phoenix, Cox has a broadcast flag on every channel that isn't part of the basic package. I tried hard to fight them on this and they told me the copyright holders insisted on the broadcast flag to prevent copyright violations.

Then you should try to contact the copyright holders.

In the past, specific cable stations (I know, they are not necessarily the copyright holders of each specific show) have said they did NOT want the flag set, even though a specific cable company set them. I honestly don't remember what the outcome of that was..

(But in other cases, people HAVE gotten their local cable company to remove the flag that was incorrectly set on retransmissions of broadcast stations.)

thebigshow · 08-18-2010, 01:18 PM

Mattack, that would mean I would have to contact the copyright holders of every single channel they block and each show on that network. That seems a bit of a daunting challenge. I'm trying to fight with Cox again now that they've said they will lift those restrictions for the premiere. If they block it on all other tivo's, then I'm taking this fight to the FCC because that's nonsense to treat me like a pirate because I own the "wrong" tivo.

shwru980r · 08-18-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigshow

If they block it on all other tivo's, then I'm taking this fight to the FCC because that's nonsense to treat me like a pirate because I own the "wrong" tivo.

I don't think it is possible to make the flag have different values based on a specific model of Tivo.

drevilkep · 08-18-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwru980r

I don't think it is possible to make the flag have different values based on a specific model of Tivo.

Might be possible to using the pairing information and host ID to decide how the bit gets set, but yeah, it's probably not worth it their trouble considering it wouldn't benefit Cox in any way.

ZeoTiVo · 08-19-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drevilkep

Might be possible to using the pairing information and host ID to decide how the bit gets set, but yeah, it's probably not worth it their trouble considering it wouldn't benefit Cox in any way.

the bit is set in the broadcast stream and is not changed by anything. That would violate the cable labs certification and likely some laws even. TIANAL.
How the bit is acted upon or not could be changed by box with targeted updates but again that would violate cable labs certification. OF course a cable company could continue to support the box anyhow even without certification but is very likely a battle TiVo would not want to have with cable labs and other cable companies. The original post on this concept is simply unworkable in any form and pure speculation that is completely off base.
I doubt they said they would lift any restrictions for the premiere - but simply allow Premiere's they provide to do the MRV function the same as one you would buy from TiVo directly.

drevilkep · 08-19-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

the bit is set in the broadcast stream and is not changed by anything. That would violate the cable labs certification and likely some laws even. TIANAL.
How the bit is acted upon or not could be changed by box with targeted updates but again that would violate cable labs certification. OF course a cable company could continue to support the box anyhow even without certification but is very likely a battle TiVo would not want to have with cable labs and other cable companies. The original post on this concept is simply unworkable in any form and pure speculation that is completely off base.
I doubt they said they would lift any restrictions for the premiere - but simply allow Premiere's they provide to do the MRV function the same as one you would buy from TiVo directly.

True enough, but if they didn't turn the CCI flag off for the non-premiums (at least) they will have lots of angry new Tivo customers complaining about how most recordings can't be shared among Tivos. Not something Cox or Tivo would want.