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Old 01-06-2011, 11:18 AM   #61
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Added Wisconsin and Maryland
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:05 PM   #62
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Oregon Frontier FiOS was recently made worse, now all are protected except locals.

Frontier also recently announced a 50% rate increase. They seem to want out of the cable business. So it sure would be nice to hear from Portland Comcast people to confirm that nothing but premiums are protected.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:52 PM   #63
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Added Comcast policy update:

An anonymous report indicates that due to Comcast corporate policy, the playboy channel will be regarded as pay per view and carry the 0x03 CCI byte.

0x03 - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferrable. Content disappears from the Now Playing list after 90 minutes.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:33 AM   #64
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An anonymous report indicates that due to Comcast corporate policy, the playboy channel will be regarded as pay per view and carry the 0x03 CCI byte.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. IIRC Playboy is a pay-by-the-month channel, not PPV. I thought that FCC regulations explicitly prohibited 0x03 on those kinds of channels.

But I just typed the words free porn into teh Google and it said "About 204,000,000 results (0.14 seconds)". So perhaps there are alternatives.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:56 PM   #65
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Yeah, that's ridiculous. IIRC Playboy is a pay-by-the-month channel, not PPV. I thought that FCC regulations explicitly prohibited 0x03 on those kinds of channels.

But I just typed the words free porn into teh Google and it said "About 204,000,000 results (0.14 seconds)". So perhaps there are alternatives.
I'll take your word for it. Seriously I've only gotten one report and while I tend to believe the reporter, I haven't gotten any third party confirmation.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:37 PM   #66
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Comcast in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon appears to still only be protecting the "premium" channels.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:19 PM   #67
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Comcast in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon appears to still only be protecting the "premium" channels.
Ok, Got it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:52 PM   #68
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I'm going to post an RFC on a petition about this. I'm in Oregon and very unhappy.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:08 AM   #69
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I'm going to post an RFC on a petition about this. I'm in Oregon and very unhappy.
Don't bother. Odds are very high that Frontier wants to get out of the TV business entirely by the end of this year. More discussion in AVS Forum local thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19765921

Also lots of discussion in TiVo Community:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=462185
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:21 AM   #70
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We have RCN in metro DC and have never had problems until recently the NBA League Pass seems to have a code that it has to be watched within 90 minutes.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:39 AM   #71
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Cox in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

All clear except the HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime groups.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:22 AM   #72
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Added Oklahoma and Washington State. Don't know exactly which channels in Washington are affected, but will update it when I find out.
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:58 PM   #73
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Charter Gwinnett County Digital,

BBCA, Encore Westerns, Starz

I'm just gonna run some tests and record a whole bunch of stuff on various channels to see what else is blocked.

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Old 02-03-2011, 03:26 PM   #74
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Charter Gwinnett County Digital,

BBCA, Encore Westerns, Starz

I'm just gonna run some tests and record a whole bunch of stuff on various channels to see what else is blocked.
Added. Let us know what else you might find.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:50 PM   #75
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K I mistakenly put Starz when it should have been Showtime Showcase.

Also add TMC.

I've got more recording on various channels so I'll post when they are done.

Wha does this mean. What are they doing?
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:16 PM   #76
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K I mistakenly put Starz when it should have been Showtime Showcase.

Also add TMC.

I've got more recording on various channels so I'll post when they are done.

Wha does this mean. What are they doing?
Sounds like they are restricting the recordings to copy once, or copy no more. Which means that the TiVo can record them, but transferring to another TiVo or to a PC is prohibited. Unfortunately the FCC gave the cable companies the right to do this on their own without any direction from the studios.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:13 PM   #77
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Well add all of encore to that list. I wonder if they are doing it to just ticks to get people to use their boxes that will allow multi room viewing .
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:56 AM   #78
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I live in Tucson, AZ. Same deal as PHX w/ Cox. I don't really care anymore. Every video regardless how it's flagged is always possible to copy via the "Copy to VCR" option since this already went to court (well copying stuff to a "Video Recording Device").

Only reason why the CCI is occasionally used is cuz cable companies clearly want to encourage you to get their HSI service and obtain these things via torrents that are available everywhere and w/o commercials... this is the reason... they just have no idea this is the reason... yet...

In all seriousness once some cable co. tries to take some to court by bypassing the CCI flag... the court will rule that the CCI flag's purpose is not to prevent people from playing recorded content on other devices but to inform the user that the content is copyrighted and should not be distributed outside the home. If a user decides not to distribute the video anyway, then the cable company may contact the FBI and fine them.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:45 PM   #79
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Every video regardless how it's flagged is always possible to copy via the "Copy to VCR" option since this already went to court (well copying stuff to a "Video Recording Device").
Are you referring to the Sony Betamax case? I thought that involved recording a television transmission for later viewing and not duplicating a recording of a television transmission.

In Tivo's MRV case, we are duplicating a recording, not simply recording the television transmission.

The CCI byte is a huge pain for many.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:25 AM   #80
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I live in Tucson, AZ. Same deal as PHX w/ Cox.
Noted.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:32 AM   #81
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In all seriousness once some cable co. tries to take some to court by bypassing the CCI flag... the court will rule that the CCI flag's purpose is not to prevent people from playing recorded content on other devices but to inform the user that the content is copyrighted and should not be distributed outside the home. If a user decides not to distribute the video anyway, then the cable company may contact the FBI and fine them.
No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte. I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:49 AM   #82
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No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte.
I agree
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I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.
Nah.... They are just pursuing their business interest. TiVo owners are only about 0.5% of their digital customer base. I don't see any sense in which you can construe them to be in a "war of escalation" with their customers. It is irritating to see the legalese they use to state their copy protection is legal while insinuating it's required by their agreements with content providers. But being irritating is legal. So is being unethical and the only practical limit on that would be if say 50% of their digital customers used TiVos -- never gonna happen for any TiVo box that doesn't have a cable co name on it.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:39 AM   #83
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No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte. I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.
Nah... I dont buy that. I believe you can lay this one at the feet of their lawyers. Lawyers rule the roost and lawyers are paranoid. They cover their butts with 'copy one generation only' so they can never be accused of not using every method available to protect a copyrighted work. If they flag copyrighted material as 'copy freely' they dont look to be protecting the material (at least I believe a lawyer would see it that way). IMHO, the CCI 02 flag is just like the stickers on the ladder saying dont climb on the very top.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:54 PM   #84
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Nah... I dont buy that. I believe you can lay this one at the feet of their lawyers. Lawyers rule the roost and lawyers are paranoid. They cover their butts with 'copy one generation only' so they can never be accused of not using every method available to protect a copyrighted work. If they flag copyrighted material as 'copy freely' they dont look to be protecting the material (at least I believe a lawyer would see it that way). IMHO, the CCI 02 flag is just like the stickers on the ladder saying dont climb on the very top.
I think that's the excuse or justification, not the reason. They must know that a side effect of their decision makes a competing product less attractive. So the real reason is that by discouraging people from using third party devices they make an additional amount of money based on VOD sales every time someone rents their box instead of going to TiVo.

Wikipedia says that TiVo has 2.76 million subs. If each one of those subs were using cable equipment and bought one item for 5.00 each month, that's an additional 165.6 Million in revenue that cable companies could get. In a market that's fairly well saturated and resistant to price increases that is a lot of money someone is missing out on.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:24 PM   #85
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I'm not sure why you have fios in NJ as having copy protection. I have fios in northern NJ and have no copy protection on anything. Even HBO stuff has no copy protection. To be honest the lack of copy protection is what's keeping me as a customer since I can get better pricing from cablevision.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:29 PM   #86
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I don't buy the "lawyers being paranoid" theory. It seems strange the lawyers for ComCast would be so much less paranoid than those of Time Warner.

As Time Warner has said in their statements on this, they have agreements with their content providers. To think that copy protection doesn't get considered in negotiating these agreements is unimaginable to me. Time Warner would like you to think that these agreements bind them to copy protect. They cleverly hint at that in their statements but don't actually say it. Since the agreements are not public there is no way to know if that is true. Personally I think they copy protect either just because they can and/or that it hurts TiVo penetration. Circumstantial evidence that their provider agreements are not the reason is in the fact that other cable systems carrying the exact same content do not copy protect.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #87
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I'm not sure why you have fios in NJ as having copy protection. I have fios in northern NJ and have no copy protection on anything. Even HBO stuff has no copy protection. To be honest the lack of copy protection is what's keeping me as a customer since I can get better pricing from cablevision.
The list is getting a little long so it's hard to see that there are multiple columns. This might help.

Code:
Cable System          0x00 0x02 0x03 0x04          Channels
Code:
New Jersey
Comcast, Central NJ         on                     Premium Only
Verizon FIOS, Freehold
       /Basking Ridge  on                          All

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Old 02-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #88
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I don't buy the "lawyers being paranoid" theory. It seems strange the lawyers for ComCast would be so much less paranoid than those of Time Warner.

As Time Warner has said in their statements on this, they have agreements with their content providers. To think that copy protection doesn't get considered in negotiating these agreements is unimaginable to me. Time Warner would like you to think that these agreements bind them to copy protect. They cleverly hint at that in their statements but don't actually say it.
FIOS, Comcast, et al, have virtually the same contracts with the same people as TW Cable. They also fail to mention the only content provider who demanded they not have copy protection enabled on their channels was summarily dropped from TWC lineups across the nation.

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Since the agreements are not public there is no way to know if that is true. Personally I think they copy protect either just because they can and/or that it hurts TiVo penetration. Circumstantial evidence that their provider agreements are not the reason is in the fact that other cable systems carrying the exact same content do not copy protect.
It's much simpler than that.

Question: Who stands to gain the most - or at least so they believe - from copy protection? Answer: The MPAA.

Question: Who is one of the largest (maybe the largest) members of the MPAA? Answer: Time Warner, Inc.

Two guesses who still has a controlling interest in Time Warner Cable.

Do the math.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:40 AM   #89
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I pinged Charter on Twitter and they told me that the blocked channels I listed may be due to an issue with the tuning adapter. So I will call them when I get home from SFO and see if they can fix it.

I will keep you posted.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:24 PM   #90
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...They also fail to mention the only content provider who demanded they not have copy protection enabled on their channels was summarily dropped from TWC lineups across the nation.
...
Who was this content provider that actually stood up for us?

I ask because TWC has dropped several channels lately (without dropping their prices by a penny, in fact I think they're raising them), so it's not clear which one of them it might have been.
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