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Old 06-10-2010, 05:08 AM   #1
Phantom Gremlin
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FiOS restriction --- Transferring prohibited by the copyright holder.

From what I've read about FiOS, there has never been any sort of restriction on transferring files from box to box. But I just browsed to another of my TiVo HD boxes and saw:
Transferring prohibited by the copyright holder.
I don't really care, this was for some programs on Disney HD and Disney XD HD that some family members recorded.

But this is disturbing if it means that this CCI stuff is now creeping into FiOS.

Edit: not all programs are restricted. Perhaps it's just movies. E.g. it's OK to transfer Phineas and Ferb, but not OK to transfer the 1994 movie Blank Check.

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Old 06-10-2010, 05:39 AM   #2
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Service providers are, of course, permitted to apply some of the CCI restrictions, by their own choice (though generally FiOS has not), but what you may be experiencing is a case where the content provider is requiring it.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:55 AM   #3
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My vote goes towards Disney requesting it. They are anal when it comes to copy protection.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:15 PM   #4
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Angry it's pretty widespread

Good catch! It looks like Verizon has started putting copy protection on virtually ALL content that's non-broadcast. Previously, the only protected (can't be transferred content) I ever had was on stuff that I downloaded from Amazon or video on demand like podcasts, never recordings. I've never seen stuff protected like stuff from CNN, CNBC and HDNet. I know because I archive some stuff from there.

Now, I'm seeing these protected: Star Trek Enterprise (HDNet), Larry King Live (CNNI) Mythbusters (DSCP), Mad Money (CNBC) and even stuff in COMEDY and HLN!

It looks like no recordings before 6/8 (such as eps of the above) had this damned protection. Perhaps that what the monkeys at Verizon/Frontier screwed up with their outage on 6/7. It's easier to check using kmttg (and probably TiVo Desktop).

I've archived bits of Mad Money and entire eps of Enterprise before. I've also set more shows to record that I've archived in the past w/o no problem (xferred using kmttg, transcoded then burned to AVCHD format) to see if they're also now protect. We'll see in the new few days.

I've started http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...74#post7982774 asking non-FiOS people to check their recordings. I think Verizon ****ed up.

If it turns out to be a FiOS-only thing, it'll be time to call CSR. If it's their fault and they don't yank the protection crap, I'll be dropping them as soon as my commitment is up. I do archive stuff to AVCHD and this would really suck.

Last edited by cwerdna : 06-10-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:25 PM   #5
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I also can add HBOHD. I recorded Smash His Camera on 6/8 and other THD's in the house list it with a red icon and will not transfer! I can understand HBO, but Mythbusters?

I wonder if a call to Verizon would help or if we would just gat a "HUH" response?

I may check dslreports to see what people are saying!
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwerdna View Post
Good catch! It looks like Verizon has started putting copy protection on virtually ALL content that's non-broadcast. Previously, the only protected (can't be transferred content) I ever had was on stuff that I downloaded from Amazon or video on demand like podcasts, never recordings. I've never seen stuff protected like stuff from CNN, CNBC and HDNet. I know because I archive some stuff from there.
I wonder if this is related to the sell-off of some FIOS areas to Frontier.
Quote:
Frontier will acquire include all of Verizon's local wireline operating territories in Arizona, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin
The few people who've specifically noticed issues live in the affected areas. So maybe Frontier is setting the copy protection.

(I've got FIOS and haven't noticed any protected recordings, but I'm in a non-Frontier area. I'll try to remember to double check on the no protected recordings tonight)
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
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Yep, I think Frontier is setting this. They're going to lose me as a customer very very quickly. First step is the regular home phone line (hello Vonage or something similar), the next is the tv.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:43 PM   #8
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they'll lose me very quickly too

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Originally Posted by rifleman69 View Post
Yep, I think Frontier is setting this. They're going to lose me as a customer very very quickly.
If this is their policy moving forward, they will lose me as a customer as soon as my commitment's over. I might even try to wrangle out of it before it's over, if I can.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:50 PM   #9
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If this is their policy moving forward, they will lose me as a customer as soon as my commitment's over. I might even try to wrangle out of it before it's over, if I can.

As soon as July 1st hits, you will be eligible to leave Frontier unless you re-upped within the past few months. They will also lose me as a customer too if this is how they run their business.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:29 PM   #10
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As soon as July 1st hits, you will be eligible to leave Frontier unless you re-upped within the past few months. They will also lose me as a customer too if this is how they run their business.
I thought the VZ to Frontier State approval required them to change nothing.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:26 PM   #11
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On their end, they're not technically changing anything. But in our eyes, it's a big change!
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:26 PM   #12
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Yep, I think Frontier is setting this. They're going to lose me as a customer very very quickly. First step is the regular home phone line (hello Vonage or something similar), the next is the tv.
Per my private dealings with VZ_Frank on VerizonDirect this MAY be an error.

Film at 11, as they say on the T and V.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:31 PM   #13
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(I've got FIOS and haven't noticed any protected recordings, but I'm in a non-Frontier area. I'll try to remember to double check on the no protected recordings tonight)
Just checked and I have no copy restrictions on recent recordings, even for recording from premium channels.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:06 PM   #14
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I believe it has something to do with our CableCard outage...a kind of a part 2.

I got off the phone with FIOS support and they said they had nothing to do with it...it is our TIVO's. Sure it is!
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:45 PM   #15
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I believe it has something to do with our CableCard outage...a kind of a part 2.

I got off the phone with FIOS support and they said they had nothing to do with it...it is our TIVO's. Sure it is!
Great... I'm still at work and can't check if it's still a problem. Hopefully enough customers scream bloody murder and are able to get them to fix this.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:02 PM   #16
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I'm in Delaware with FiOS, and nothing I recorded shows as protected for me except my podcasts.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:08 PM   #17
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Frontier states only?

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I'm in Delaware with FiOS, and nothing I recorded shows as protected for me except my podcasts.
I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is confined to the states being transferred (or already partly transferred?) to Frontier. The OP, MSPAN and myself fall into that category.

Last edited by cwerdna : 06-10-2010 at 11:00 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:34 PM   #18
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On their end, they're not technically changing anything. But in our eyes, it's a big change!
The Oregonian has a person who loves this stuff. She has already gone after Verizon!
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:06 PM   #19
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I just spent about two hours on the phone with VZ support. Details are below, but feel free to skip to the last paragraph for the outcome.

MPSAN and I talk often and while I was on the road he made me aware of the copyright problem. I got home and sure enough we have the same issue. The copyright protection is arbitrary as far as I can tell but it covers everything from HBO to CNN. Not just some programs, everything is flagged on every channel that's affected but not all channels are affected. CNN? That clearly tells me they've made a mistake. It began late on 6/7, the same date that the outage happened (we lost all of our cable channels above 554). Someone flipped a switch and caused a lot of us a lot of grief.

Getting our cable cards back up and running only required a couple of calls. This go round it was fairly painful and the end result was no result at all. Initially I had to explain to the CSR what a copyright flag is, the different types, etc. That was mildly surprising, but not unexpected. Then he commenced to communicate everything I was saying to a tech person on the other end of his computer keyboard. The back-and-forth went on for a long time. Initially I would tell the CSR something, he'd type it into his workstation and the tech would write something back.

Obviously neither one of them had run into this. The first thing they tried was reinitializing one of my cable cards. I read them the S/N and they did their thing. Everything went away and eventually came back, and I quickly recorded a couple of channels that were protected prior and they were still flagged. So I talked, the CSR listened, typed and read back what the tech told him. The responses included...

- You should be receiving all of the channels now (I was already receiving all of the channels)
- The cable cards are working
- This doesn't have anything to do with the outage
- The cable cards don't copyright the recordings
- TiVo copyrights the recordings
- We can't control what TiVo does
- Copyright flags have always been there
- The tech knows a dude that has TiVo and he can't transfer recordings to another TiVo (seriously, he said exactly that)
- The recordings are blocked by TiVo
- This is a TiVo problem
- Verizon is copyrighting all programming except local stations (not the case)
- All recordings are copyrighted...always
- This is a TiVo problem
- Transferring between TiVo's is no longer allowed (seriously?)
- We don't know why some programs are copyrighted, we think someone is working on it.

The last answer came after a very long period of waiting on hold listening to bad music. It was obvious that whoever the CSR was communicating with talked to someone else...finally. But that really didn't make any difference.

The disappointing reality is that right now no one at Verizon (at least we the Great Unwashed can get to) has a clue as to what's going on. I've no idea if this is part of their preparation for the Frontier takeover. I suspect it's just someone's panic induced error when they tried to fix the multi-state outage. However if it is I'm really inclined to cancel VZ and go OTA and just download the shows we want to see with Boxee, iTunes, Netflix, etc. Hopefully they'll get this fixed though...and soon.

Last edited by richsadams : 06-10-2010 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #20
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Good post rich. I say screw Frontier if this is how they're going to run things. I can run my S3 box off OTA, sell my Premiere box and go back to DirecTV yesterday.

This can't be a TiVo problem...BUT I know a few people who have Windows Media Centers and the like, and their cards are a-ok...and they're in Frontier territory.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:12 AM   #21
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thanks Rich!

Thanks for reporting the problem to me. Sigh... it sucks that they seem clueless.

Coming home, I can see these also got copy protection:
Mad Money on CNBC (standard def), recorded 6/10/10 3 pm and 8 pm Pacific
Attack of the Show (191 G4), 6/10/10 4 pm Pacific

Surprisingly, this one didn't get CP:
Ultimate Factories on SPEEDHD (583), 6/10/10 10 pm Pacific

Don't know if they fixed the problem or if this is a fluke.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:37 AM   #22
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Thanks for reporting the problem to me. Sigh... it sucks that they seem clueless.

Coming home, I can see these also got copy protection:
Mad Money on CNBC (standard def), recorded 6/10/10 3 pm and 8 pm Pacific
Attack of the Show (191 G4), 6/10/10 4 pm Pacific

Surprisingly, this one didn't get CP:
Ultimate Factories on SPEEDHD (583), 6/10/10 10 pm Pacific

Don't know if they fixed the problem or if this is a fluke.
That's what I mean...the copy protection seems fairly random. I would bet we all have the same channels flagged, it's just that we don't see it until something is recorded. Comedy Central HD is copy protected, but MSNBC-HD next door isn't. CNN-HD is, HGTV-HD is, Showtime (all channels) isn't. Makes zero sense IMO. In other areas (that weren't hit by the outage) there's still zero copy protection like we have/had. All of which leads me to believe it's a mistake.

I expect (hope) that they'll get enough complaints to take some action soon...hopefully before they bail and leave it to Frontier to deal with.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:47 AM   #23
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As soon as July 1st hits, you will be eligible to leave Frontier unless you re-upped within the past few months. They will also lose me as a customer too if this is how they run their business.
Can you point me to a source of this?

I re-skimmed the letter I got from Verizon/Frontier about the switchover but didn't see any mention of being able to cut out early that'd apply to me. The letter seemed more geared towards local and long distance POTS which I don't have anyway. I have no landline.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:56 AM   #24
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Can you point me to a source of this?

I re-skimmed the letter I got from Verizon/Frontier about the switchover but didn't see any mention of being able to cut out early that'd apply to me. The letter seemed more geared towards local and long distance POTS which I don't have anyway. I have no landline.
Here is an excerpt from a letter VZ sent out in November 2009:

Quote:
The following is an outline of an important change to the verizon Online
Terms of Service, which is effective as of November 30, 2009. We have
described this change in general terms below and recommend that you
review the complete Terms of Service to determine how this change
applies to you or your use of the Service. The Terms of Service can be
accessed by clicking on the "Policies and Terms of Service" link
(www2.verizon.net/policies) at the bottom of any page of our Website.
The Terms of Service, as revised, will govern your rights and
obligations, and ours, with respect to your use of the Services we
offer. As set forth in Paragraph 3 of the Terms of Service, your
continued use of the Service after the effective date of this change
will constitute your agreement to the change.

1. If you are on a term plan and verizon ceases offering service to
your location prior to the end of your term commitment, you will not
have to pay an early termination fee.

Please take time to review the complete verizon Online Terms of Service.

Thank you for being a verizon Online customer.
It's interesting to note that the link that they refer to on that web page is dead.

More info from this Oregon PUC press release (http://www.puc.state.or.us/PUC/news/2010/2010005.shtml)

An interesting part...

Quote:
Customers of Verizon’s FIOS voice, data and video fiber service in Washington, Yamhill and Multnomah counties could opt out of long-term contracts if Frontier reduces internet speeds or drops channels.
That could be why we're seeing VZ dropping channels just about every day now. Of course I'm in Clackamas County...my representative must have called in sick that day.

Here's some info from the WA State Regulators office: (http://wutc.wa.gov/webimage.nsf/0/BD...2577070078F3D2)

Of note...

Quote:
Another provision would allow a 90-day window for customers who use Verizon for their long-distance carrier to choose another provider without incurring a $5 switching fee. Current Verizon long-distance customers may retain Frontier as their toll provider in the future. Low-income customers who qualify for phone service through the Washington Telephone Assistance Program would receive a one-time $75 credit if the company fails to offer appropriate discounts or deposit waivers.
Not sure if they were looking out for VZ TV customers in the same way.

I'm sure there's more to be found, but it's getting to be past my bedtime!

Last edited by richsadams : 06-11-2010 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cwerdna View Post
Can you point me to a source of this?

I re-skimmed the letter I got from Verizon/Frontier about the switchover but didn't see any mention of being able to cut out early that'd apply to me. The letter seemed more geared towards local and long distance POTS which I don't have anyway. I have no landline.
If they leave the channel copy-protected, that's more than enough to fight the ETF if they choose to hit you with it. I'm month to month any way so it won't matter to me.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:24 PM   #26
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you guys dont need to record somethign to see if it's flagged.

go to the troubleshooting screens via the main menu (sorry not at my tivo to give you the way)- I think they are found both under cable card and under troubleshooting.

Scroll through all the data and you will see a line about CCI byte. 0X02 is flagged for no transfer. 0x00 is do what you want.

if you get to the diag screen you can check the channels you are currently on. Then hit the live tv button and flip to new channels you want to check then press left arrow and it will go back the diag screen. lather rinse repeat to check all the channels you want.

It's a lot faster than setting up a recording, canceling it, and checking npl.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:31 PM   #27
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If they leave the channel copy-protected, that's more than enough to fight the ETF if they choose to hit you with it. ...
maybe but i wouldn't bet on it. Frontier might also let people out to keep the bad press to a minimum. But I doubt any regulator without a tivo on a time warner system knows enough about content flags to include such a provision.

the snip above says drop speeds or remove channels, says nothing about turning on copy protection.

Hopefully for you folks though it's just a mistake.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:58 PM   #28
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Arrow still not fixed

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Originally Posted by cwerdna View Post
Don't know if they fixed the problem or if this is a fluke.
It's definitely not fixed. These are still receiving copy protection:
Larry King Live - 6/11/10 2 am CNNI
Star Trek: Enterprise eps - 6/11/10 7 am and 8 am HDNET
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:10 PM   #29
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If I cant even transfer recordings then the Tivo's I have are useless.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:21 PM   #30
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you guys dont need to record somethign to see if it's flagged. <snip>
Excellent info. Thanks for that!
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