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Old 05-24-2010, 02:08 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by toddorts View Post
No, the writers said the island wasn't purgatory. They never commented on the flash-sideways. I think it's pretty clear that it's a purgatory-like place.
Yes, the writers found a loophole that let them shove the purgatory angle in there.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:14 AM   #242
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Loved it!

The finale didn't try to do everything. But what it did try to do, it accomplished exceedingly well.

I was even touched at Sayid and Shannon reuniting, and I always thought they were a horrible couple.

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Originally Posted by zync View Post
I think folks are using a little too much revisionist history if looking back they're saying it was all about the human characters and the island mythology was secondary.
Here's part of my post from the 5/17/06 episode:

Quote:
One camp believes the main thing is the island mystery, and the characters are there to forward that plot.

The other camp (to which I mostly belong) think the main thing is the character study, and the island mystery is secondary, although still important. ...
I'd weight it 60% character driven, 40% plot driven.
I didn't get a lot right about this show, but in the end, I think the 60/40 split holds up pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Fool Me Twice View Post
What about Helen? What about Nadia?
Although Locke and Sayid thought they were the most important people in their lives, at the end of the day, they simply weren't.

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Originally Posted by jdfs View Post
Jack was not the last to die. Don't confuse what they showed on the island. He just happened to be the last to remember.
In other words, he was the last to "let go."

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I liked it when Locke said "Jack, I am surprised. I mean you are the obvious choice".
My favorite line of the night.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:20 AM   #243
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Didn't Christian say the Losties created the sideways world as a place they could meet and help each other move on to whatever comes next? So, do the other (non-Lostie) people in the sideways world not exist? Hurley seemed to think Ana Lucia was real, she just wasn't ready to go yet. Desmond seemed to think Daniel and his mom were real people as well. Did they help to build the world too? If they didn't help build it and they are real people, why are they there? Who helps these other people move on? What about bad people like Keamy--are they real? (Why isn't Keamy stuck on the island as a whisper?) And I'm still stuck on where are other loved ones like Ji-Yeon and Aaron? Other family members? And I can't accept that Shannon is Sayid's true love--it was Nadia.

I'm really struggling with this. So glad I'm not working Monday.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:21 AM   #244
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1. Someone else at least hinted at this, but I think Ben didn't want to go in because he's waiting for Alex. One thing I would change about this episode would be to have Ben say something about having someone left to wait for.

2. No one from the freighter was at the church, right? Wonder what happens to Miles. He became one of my favorites.

3. Stained glass window in the church was interesting. A cross, crescent, Start of David, yin/yang, ... and a donkey wheel.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:26 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by BeanMeScot View Post
I had predicted weeks ago that Hugo was going to be the next guardian of the island. I knew it was just too easy when Jack took the reins. I loved that Hugo asked Ben to help. That's all Ben ever really wanted, was to take care of the island. He wasn't good enough to be #1 but I think he would make a great #2.
This!

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A lot of filler in this episode. I have to agree it seems like they made some of this up as it went along or at some point in the middle when they planned the number of episodes left. No way the original story arc had this ending.
Well, yeah. They were making an ongoing series that the networked hoped to extend many seasons - of course they had to keep making stuff up! I am pretty sure that they had a basic idea of the end game, and that when they also had an end date in mind, they got the rest of the story together. The last couple of seasons have felt very coherent and purposeful.

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The island [story] is [something we can make crap loads of money on in a sequel so we shouldn't give away everything]. Questions Answered [in another 5-6 years].

There - I fixed it for you.
They'd be foolish not to leave hooks for future "Lost"-related projects.

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What a horrible, steaming pile of garbage. The series would have been far better ending at the episode prior to this one. Because even the most meager imaginations provide for a better ending than this. For all this episode did to bring any kind of relevance to six years of this, it may as well have ended like that infamous season of Dallas began... except that might have been more satisfying itself.
I really do not get why someone who feels like this even bothered to watch this show before. Half the series (flashbacks/flashforwards/flash-sideways) have been almost-unheard-of-for-TV character based. They have obviously been tied into the island mystery (especially the last season), but the main focus has been to build a solid emotional ground for the characters we see in the island storyline.

That this part of the show, which was always incredibly important and made the show different from a lot of similar shows, seems to have been ignored or despised by so many that apparently watched the show, is hard for me to understand.
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Awful - just awful. Not a single question answered in this episode.

What exactly is the smoke monster?
What is the light on the island?
What exactly would have happened to the world if the Man In Black had escaped the island? Clearly since he could be (and was) killed like any normal man after Desmond turned off the light, his leaving couldn't have affected anything.

The sideways reality - meaningless. Who cares about some fantasy/purgatory reality that happened after everyone died? What does that add to the experience of the characters? Nothing.

The only thing this ending did is make me feel a little better about how badly Battlestar Galactica ended - because at least it wasn't as bad as this.
Seriously? Did you also come away from "The Phantom menace" upset that Lucas didn't delve more into exactly HOW the Midichlorians communicated with the Force? And why didn't he explain WHAT the Force is? And in "Raiders of the Lost ark", I can't believe there wasn't an explanation exactly of HOW God knew to kill Nazis and WHY it was enough to close your eyes to escape death?

As for the stuff about the characters, see my previous paragraph. If you didn't care about what happened to these characters, I can't figure out why you watched the show.

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Wow. No sir. You need to watch again. The island was real.
This episode, like the Jacob/MIB centric one a couple of weeks ago, were some of the most straightforward "Lost" episodes there have been. I am not sure why people think they were dead on the island the whole time.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:39 AM   #246
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It was a TV show, not a documentary.
This has to be the best comment EVER!!! lol
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:43 AM   #247
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The "tender moments" montage on Kimmel made me LOL.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:45 AM   #248
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Ok, I get that, but still, I think it left too many questions that I think they didn't have an answer to. They all set aside time in purgatory because of this great event in their lives, but we know nothing about why it was such a big event.
Check out seasons 1 to 6.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:45 AM   #249
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Yes, the writers found a loophole that let them shove the purgatory angle in there.

Yeah sadly the ending seemed like the writers getting lazy. I enjoyed the episode up to the last few minutes and the ending fell flat.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:51 AM   #250
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I'm trying to remember - in the pilot, did the dog find Jack in the bamboo forest?
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:53 AM   #251
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I'm trying to remember - in the pilot, did the dog find Jack in the bamboo forest?
Yes. And in the (non-canonical?) mobi-sodes, Christian sent Vincent to wake Jack up saying, "We've got work to do."
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:55 AM   #252
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I'm trying to remember - in the pilot, did the dog find Jack in the bamboo forest?
Yes. If it wasn't a shot for shot replica of the opening shots from the pilot, it was pretty close.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:56 AM   #253
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Ugh. I have many people who ditched the show a few years ago who are going to ask me about the big finale and want me to answer questions for them. I'm going to have to tell them that pretty much everything they saw had no explanation and the finale only explained the final season that they didn't watch.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:59 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Fool Me Twice View Post
Didn't Christian say the Losties created the sideways world as a place they could meet and help each other move on to whatever comes next? So, do the other (non-Lostie) people in the sideways world not exist? Hurley seemed to think Ana Lucia was real, she just wasn't ready to go yet. Desmond seemed to think Daniel and his mom were real people as well. Did they help to build the world too? If they didn't help build it and they are real people, why are they there? Who helps these other people move on? What about bad people like Keamy--are they real? (Why isn't Keamy stuck on the island as a whisper?) And I'm still stuck on where are other loved ones like Ji-Yeon and Aaron? Other family members? And I can't accept that Shannon is Sayid's true love--it was Nadia.

I'm really struggling with this. So glad I'm not working Monday.
I would say that the sideways view is a combined vision, based on the common experiences of the people in it. To be honest, I don't really care too much about what exactly it is - I know what it represents and that worked for me. I can understand the point some have made about the sideways being an afterlife feeling like a way to "cheat" though, even if I don't feel that way.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:00 AM   #255
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Ugh. I have many people who ditched the show a few years ago who are going to ask me about the big finale and want me to answer questions for them. I'm going to have to tell them that pretty much everything they saw had no explanation and the finale only explained the final season that they didn't watch.
Like what? I can't think of a whole lot of things in the island reality that still need explaining...
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:14 AM   #256
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I think folks are using a little too much revisionist history if looking back they're saying it was all about the human characters and the island mythology was secondary.
No, every interview I've seen with Cuse and Lindelof in the past five years has them saying that the show is about the characters and less about the mythology.

And if you hadn't figured that out by "Walkabout", I don't think you were paying attention.

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Bottom line, I don't like the fantasy and overly-supernatural turn that LOST took towards the end. The finale I saw tonight was not the finale to the sci-fi show I started watching six years ago.
When was Lost ever a Science Fiction show?
I never got that from watching the show.

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Seriously? Did you also come away from "The Phantom menace" upset that Lucas didn't delve more into exactly HOW the Midichlorians communicated with the Force? And why didn't he explain WHAT the Force is?
I walked away from the Phantom Menace thinking Lucas had screwed the pooch.


My one complaint: Shannon???!!!! Shannon is Sayid's true love?
Not sure I buy that.

Overall, I am satisfied with the finale and I will admit to tearing up at the end.
I was a bit disappointed that Jack was initially chosen as Jacob's replacement because I thought that Hurley would have been a better choice in the long run so I appreciated how it all worked out at the end.

I see that at the heart, Lost is Jack's journey from a man of science to a man of faith and how he had to call upon his faith at the end.

The only other thing I'd like to see answered is what was the intended storyline with Walt?
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:20 AM   #257
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Nadia was not there because she wasn't Sayid's true love. I did find it a bit harsh that Helen wasn't there. I guess Locke didn't love her that much either (well, he wouldn't give up his father for her so...)

Christian said that the island was the most important thing in their lives and the relationships they forged there caused them all to want to meet up after death.

What I don't understand is why people say there wasn't a plan. Obviously not every minute, or even every minor plot point, was planned out: you can't do that in a TV series because actors leave or die or get really tall really fast or get busted for DUI, etc. You have to change things around: that's life. But the writers said they had a plan for the story. People who don't know anything about it at all say they didn't. I guess you just have to decide who you trust.

What about Juliette? She was there and she wasn't on the plane. No, there's absolutely no question that the island really happened. Christian told Jack as much at the end.
confused about Eloise(sp), she seemed to know as much as she did in the previous seasons.. how does that tie in??
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:22 AM   #258
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You have it because it's the absolute end of the story.

Put it this way. What if it ended with everyone leaving the island? Boo. What about the island just blowing up and everyone biting the dust at the same time? Also bad.

With this ending, we know where it all ultimately ends up. We watched the Losties meet. We watched them bond and grow together. We even watched some of them die. In the end, we watched them make their final journey together. It completes the arc.
Reminded me of Six Feet Under's ending.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:22 AM   #259
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Well, The Wire's safe.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:26 AM   #260
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David doesn't exist? That sucks.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:40 AM   #261
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Like what? I can't think of a whole lot of things in the island reality that still need explaining...
Just one, as an example.

"What is the island?"

"It's a magical/mysterious/unknown place" is the answer. That was already a given in earlier seasons. So I have no new information for them.

Personally, I want to know what "the magic box" is that Ben referred to that "whatever you want to be inside will appear" (paraphrased). The one that brought Locke's father to the island.

I know, I know. "It's a magic box." What else could I possibly want to know about it???
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:44 AM   #262
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I see that at the heart, Lost is Jack's journey from a man of science to a man of faith and how he had to call upon his faith at the end.
Pretty much this. Lost was Jack's story more than any others.

I'm not wild about the sideways alternate reality being an afterlife. But it pretty much makes sense the way it turned out, and I can live with it. Otherwise a perfect series finale.

The series as a whole? Well, it was first and foremost about the spiritual journey of the people who survived the 815 crash. They arrived to the island with demons either spiritual or physical or both, and ended up moving on with a modicum of peace. Some had to work it out after they died. Some, like Jack, worked it out through their Journey on the island.

The island mythos was a means to that journey. We just saw snatches of the island's long history. These were the parts that were important to tell the 815ers stories. For example, the statue's history just isn't important to tell Hurley's story. The origin of the food drops aren't important to James' getting revenge on the man that conned his parents and ruined his life.

In the end, the characters didn't know any more than we did. It didn't really matter to Jack what exactly the Island's light was or how it worked, just that it DID have to be protected, and the MIB was tied to it somehow, and the key to defeating him lie there.

That's not to say some more info about the island mythos wouldn't be fun and appreciated. But i don't feel a huge need to know where Jacob and MIB's mom came from (either one of them). Or any other of the big unanswered questions. They're just moot to the story that was told.

I feel part loss, part relief, part joy that this series has come to an end. It was an emotional show to watch, and often hard to see what the characters were going through. But I'm glad that it ended on it's own terms, and the forces behind the series got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and how they wanted to tell it, to an appreciative audience. It's not a series that was "phoned in." It was profoundly evident that great care was taken by everyone involved to make it the best it could possibly be. And as a fan, I really appreciate that.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:45 AM   #263
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I know, I know. "It's a magic box." What else could I possibly want to know about it???
No. You totally underestimate the series. The Island is a Magic Place in which anything can happen. And, BTW, there is a Purgatory in which anything can happen. And, BTW, the world (outside the Island and Purgatory) is also a Magic Place in which anything can happen. Everybody who was wanted and available hugs at the End.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:48 AM   #264
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Personally, I want to know what "the magic box" is that Ben referred to that "whatever you want to be inside will appear" (paraphrased). The one that brought Locke's father to the island.

I know, I know. "It's a magic box." What else could I possibly want to know about it???
That particular question was answered by Ben. He said it was "Metaphorical." It wasn't really a "magic box." Obviously they brought Locke's father to the island on the sub.
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:52 AM   #265
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Alright. I loved it. Worth every second.

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There are people on the West Coast and in Alaska/Hawaii that may want to browse the thread while they are waiting for Kimmel to start.
I just finished reading the thread. 9 pages, and it's now 12:50am. I've been watching Kimmel, it's been 45 minutes. Holy crap.

Anyway a couple thoughts, someone mentioned the ages of the actors, I think it showed most in the younger cast members. Both Emilie deRavin & Evangeline Lilly have aged (Emilie's face is a lot wider). I suppose it was more noticeable after watching the pilot yesterday.

I see the fact that many of the Losties aren't in the last scene as for some folks, that wasn't the best time of their lives.

I don't get why people completely ignore what Christian Shepherd said. He gave the most expository lines in the whole series, he explained it all to Jack.

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Old 05-24-2010, 04:03 AM   #266
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Wow. They really resorted to some religious BS "afterlife" nonsense? What a letdown.

I actually enjoyed most of the episode until the ending-but ultimatelyas a whole, the entire series "tentpoles" are ultimately meaningless. Desmonds flashes/Dharma/Walt. Everything that was MADE to be important through the mythology of the series is rendered moot and that to me is a betrayal to your audience. As other people said, thus ending is really only relevant to this final season and not the series as a whole.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:03 AM   #267
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Yes. Jack came out of the jungle toward the beach after waking immediately after the crash and then laid down and died, that is how the story ends. In the pilot he comes out of the jungle thinking he is alive and starts saving dead people and that is how the story begins.

It was sad when they showed the real wreckage and there were no survivors.

The Island was a purgatory were the dead from many different crashes and wrecks over the years tried to figure out what the heck was going on. The light was what your supposed to go in when you die. They did not know they were dead and that is why they were so interested in the light and energy. That is all I can explain for now. Bedtime.

I'll miss Lost. Best network drama ever.
lol, did you even watch it or read the thread above you. So wrong. Please don't make it worse than it was, they didn't have a story arch until this last season imo.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:07 AM   #268
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Ah yes, forgot to comment on the wreckage.

The island is there. The wreckage is there. The survivors got off the island, they are not there. Yet the island & wreckage remain. Can't get much more straightforward than that.

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Old 05-24-2010, 04:07 AM   #269
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Wow. They really resorted to some religious BS "afterlife" nonsense? What a letdown.

I actually enjoyed most of the episode until the ending-but ultimatelyas a whole, the entire series "tentpoles" are ultimately meaningless. Desmonds flashes/Dharma/Walt. Everything that was MADE to be important through the mythology of the series is rendered moot and that to me is a betrayal to your audience. As other people said, thus ending is really only relevant to this final season and not the series as a whole.
That's if you regard the series as a whole as a story about the island. It wasn't.

As mentioned numerous times it was a story about Jack and the other castaways. The Island stuff was only there to further their story, not the other way around.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:16 AM   #270
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That's if you regard the series as a whole as a story about the island. It wasn't.

As mentioned numerous times it was a story about Jack and the other castaways. The Island stuff was only there to further their story, not the other way around.
That's called a excuse for lazy writing.
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