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Old 03-17-2014, 06:39 AM   #1561
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They died (most of them) at various points after they got off the island. Whenever they died, they all ended up in the "LA Purgatory" of the final season, which was a timeless place (or a place outside of time).
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:11 AM   #1562
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It just now occurred to me that what with JJ Abrahm's speech about the "magic box" (if you don't know the reference, he did a TED talk you can watch), I wouldn't be surprised if in that first sir down meeting they realized that one of the characters would have to be tied to the secrets of the show, and I can picture JJ referring to him as a "box factory". I'll bet it was an inside joke when they revealed (in Walkabout, episode 3?) his job, that he worked at a box factory.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:28 AM   #1563
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From listening to the podcasts, Damon and Carlton seemed pretty genuinely adamant that what they were showing was NOT purgatory, it was REAL, so much so that I don't think that initially they DID want it to be literally purgatory. So I disagree with the idea that that's what they wanted and then had to pivot when the audience figured it out, if only from so many times where we heard their comments about it during podcasts every week.

Purgatory didn't even seem like a satisfying end-game. I took it more like they'd built this amazing web of events (through time, which wasn't "thrown on", we saw seeds of that right at the beginning of season 2), including repeated statements that what happened happened, and now wanted to test the "faith" of the viewers of the show (and that premise of immutability) by showing us the people trying to change things with a bomb, and seeing who would wonder what had happened.

Those of us who bought into (and appreciated the tougher writing challenges of) "what happened happened" were immediately amazed and simultaneously skeptical that we then saw Jack in a plane that didn't crash (which we later learned was their reunion/final-goodbye lobby before walking into heaven together, which they could make because Hurley could do anything now). It was a very satisfying resolution for many of us that we then saw that this last season, which some were calling "cheating" at the time and bad writing because stuff had changed, actually had NOT been a rule change - what happened did in fact happen - and on top of that we get the type of let's get the friends together reunion that we ALL pine for and that someone like Hurley would absolutely create if given the power.

Even when it aired there was a huge chasm between what many of us got and what many others missed when watching the show (I think we here at TC covered most of the good stuff). It suppose that over time, as everyone's memories fade, it would only stand to reason that that divide wouldn't change. Those who loved it will remember the awesome parts, those who didn't will either not remember much or will remember particular things they were looking for resolutions on that they weren't satisfied with.

I have come to the sad conclusion that it's be really difficult to do a rewatch with my kids. There were so many episodes! And there are so many other shows out there that we haven't seen. I don't know if I can rewatch the entire series. Key moments sure, but unless it was a week long marathon or something, it might not happen.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #1564
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Ok, now I am confused all over again. I thought they were dead the whole time. If they weren't, at what point did they die??
Dead the whole time? Seriously? Whether one liked the ending or not, I thought everyone knew they weren't dead until what Rob said above.

Funny timing, this strip ran this weekend...


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Old 03-17-2014, 11:11 AM   #1565
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The last season of the show they were dead. They weren't dead before that.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:22 AM   #1566
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The last season of the show they were dead. They weren't dead before that.
The last season of the show the flash sideways scenes were where they were dead. Everything that happened on the island actually happened, and they were alive for that.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:56 PM   #1567
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I'll admit that I was annoyed by the "sideways" story of season six. I understood it, and in hindsight I can appreciate the concept of everyone going into limbo until they ALL died so they could move on together, etc, but for me, it was the fact that they spent *half* of *every* episode on that concept... at the end of the day, 90% of stuff that happened in the sideways verse was inconsequential to the end result. It showed the characters living their lives as if 815 never happened, but all we really saw was how many ways the writers could come up with to have them intersect all the time. so what...

I felt, and still feel, that they should have ditched the flash-everydirection's for the last season and just told straight "present day" story, and then used the "limbo" device in the finale. I realize it's just TOO much to fit into the finale but as a story-telling device, I just think it was a waste to spend as much time on it as they did. And the answer as to why has always been obvious to me, and that is because they flat-out couldn't fill 15 episodes with pure island story at that point, and spending 20 minutes of airtime on a made up storyline that only impacted the story at the last minute gave them an out, and to me made the whole final season, which should have ruled, drag and feel unnecessary. Again, that's except for the last few minutes where the truth about that world was revealed...I thought that was cool.

The other part that ruined the last season for me - and this is where people seem to be the most divided - is that it proved that the guys involved truly did not have answers for the stuff they spent five years setting up. Listen, I get that it's a TV show but that's kind of my point - it's a story. A story has set-up's and payoffs, it's a fact of the medium. Anyone can sit down and write a great first half of a movie that blows people's minds but if you don't actually have payoffs for the stuff you set up, what's the point.

Quote:
Obviously, there are all these mysteries, and in the final episode of Lost, we could answer a question that wasn’t asked,” Lindelof added. That question: “What is the meaning life? And what happens when you die?”
The company line that I've seen in interviews in the years since is that "this isn't a show about mysteries, it's a show about characters" is to me the biggest cop out of all time. Of course it's about characters, every show is. And they created some great ones... but I personally don't see how that absolves you from actually having to craft a complete story in the sense that if you set up mysteries, you have to pay them off. The quote above from the panel is glaringly obvious... "going into our series finale, we knew we had all these mysteries that we set up but then decided it would be cooler to just ignore them and answer a totally irrelevant question that had nothing to do with the six-year run of our show..."... lol, WHAT?

Another interesting tidbit:
Quote:
Lindelof admitted that when they cast the show, there was no script. Kim read for the part of Kate. "There was no Sun in the 'Lost' script — because there was no 'Lost' script," he said. "Jorge read for Sawyer, because Hurley didn't exist." And how did they decide Locke had been in a wheelchair? Lindelof revealed that while shooting the pilot, Terry O'Quinn would go down the beach and listen to his iPod during breaks. Co-creator J.J. Abrams pointed at O'Quinn and told Lindelof, "That guy's got a secret." What secret? "You figure it out."
Which just proves they were making stuff up as they went without any kind of plan. I'm not really saying I BLAME them, I just find it annoying that they don't seem to acknowledge that the anger a lot of fans have is justified. It's not just whining because you didn't like the direction they went in, it's deeper than that because the show was just SO. DAMN. GOOD. and part of that awesomeness was that you *knew* the guys behind it were gonna blow your mind with all this stuff, and instead they chose to ignore half of it. Even stuff they tried to answer was just like "huh?". It's really cool to have a loud, destructive smoke monster terrorizing an island full of plane crash survivors, but you have to legitimately explain what that is at some point. They just thought it looked cool and let's figure it out later. meh.

I'm always torn when I think about the show, especially when asked for a recommendation by someone who hasn't seen it. It's so f***ing good early on, and actually through most of the run, but the last season playing out the way it did (with the exception of most of the finale itself) just left a bitter taste in my mouth. It sucks because I think about every season before that all I want to do is watch it again. But knowing that so much stuff is set up then left out (because it's only about the characters I guess), and how much time is wasted in the sideways world (again, cool concept, cool endgame, absolutely unnecessary amount of air time), it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like reading a phenomenal book then hating the last chapter. Very mixed feelings.

Well that's enough three-year built up Lost angst for now...
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:28 PM   #1568
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Another interesting tidbit:


Which just proves they were making stuff up as they went without any kind of plan. I'm not really saying I BLAME them, I just find it annoying that they don't seem to acknowledge that the anger a lot of fans have is justified. It's not just whining because you didn't like the direction they went in, it's deeper than that because the show was just SO. DAMN. GOOD. and part of that awesomeness was that you *knew* the guys behind it were gonna blow your mind with all this stuff, and instead they chose to ignore half of it. Even stuff they tried to answer was just like "huh?". It's really cool to have a loud, destructive smoke monster terrorizing an island full of plane crash survivors, but you have to legitimately explain what that is at some point. They just thought it looked cool and let's figure it out later. meh.

I'm always torn when I think about the show, especially when asked for a recommendation by someone who hasn't seen it. It's so f***ing good early on, and actually through most of the run, but the last season playing out the way it did (with the exception of most of the finale itself) just left a bitter taste in my mouth. It sucks because I think about every season before that all I want to do is watch it again. But knowing that so much stuff is set up then left out (because it's only about the characters I guess), and how much time is wasted in the sideways world (again, cool concept, cool endgame, absolutely unnecessary amount of air time), it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like reading a phenomenal book then hating the last chapter. Very mixed feelings.

Well that's enough three-year built up Lost angst for now...
That wasn't Lindelof's fault though. If you read Sepinwall's excellent book, the chapter about Lost details all the craziness that went into the show being created. It was basically a nugget of an idea that JJ Abrams and the head of ABC spitballed, and then Lindelof had, like, a weekend to come up with a pilot script (I may not be remembering it all correctly, but that was the gist).
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:37 PM   #1569
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That wasn't Lindelof's fault though. If you read Sepinwall's excellent book, the chapter about Lost details all the craziness that went into the show being created. It was basically a nugget of an idea that JJ Abrams and the head of ABC spitballed, and then Lindelof had, like, a weekend to come up with a pilot script (I may not be remembering it all correctly, but that was the gist).
Oh, I don't think Lindelof is responsible for everything I didn't like about the show... it's all a collaborative effort... I'm sure they were in a tough spot and if anything the first season kind of proves that they are awesome at coming up with some killer stuff under immense pressure. It's more the blantant lies he and Cuse told over the course of the show that they knew where every seed was going, etc, and the fact that years later when it's obvious that wasn't true, there's still a level of "arrogant defiance" for lack of a better term from them... Like it's so obvious that they had no plan for 75% of the stuff they opened up yet they still act like they did and it's not a big deal because it's a show about people, lol.

I'll alwasy give them props for season 4... kind of random but I just remember the season getting cut short because of the writer's strike and them having to crank out the back half of the season in record time and the result was awesome - very tightly plotted, almost no excess, etc. They pulled it together with unreal constraints, so I know the creative team behind the sho was good, but just a little admission on the story front would be appreciated
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:37 AM   #1570
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And it was four years ago tonight...
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:42 AM   #1571
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The writers sure did such a terrible job I was shocked when Once Upon A Time in Wonderland actually used as a promo "from the writers of Lost" and it meant for me the show would have stupid plots and no resolution so not much need to watch. I was proven right when it was cancelled in first year while the similar other show continues.

Yes, its been 4 years and most viewers are still mad. A proper ending could have led to a movie later where someone else goes explore the island again too. Maybe even a series of movies (like Jurassic Park did). The solution would have been for them to hire real sci-fi writers when they were not smart enough to resolve things, they were rolling in money and could sure afford it so they could do movies later, very lost opportunity.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:57 AM   #1572
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Anytime I see the LOST writers cited, I avoid watching thanks to season six's tale of the moron brothers.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:03 AM   #1573
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The writers sure did such a terrible job I was shocked when Once Upon A Time in Wonderland actually used as a promo "from the writers of Lost" and it meant for me the show would have stupid plots and no resolution so not much need to watch. I was proven right when it was cancelled in first year while the similar other show continues.

Yes, its been 4 years and most viewers are still mad. A proper ending could have led to a movie later where someone else goes explore the island again too. Maybe even a series of movies (like Jurassic Park did). The solution would have been for them to hire real sci-fi writers when they were not smart enough to resolve things, they were rolling in money and could sure afford it so they could do movies later, very lost opportunity.
I'm not mad.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:03 AM   #1574
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Well, they did manage to fool a LOT of people for a number of years by making them think the writers were smarter than they really are. There's some talent in that.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:12 AM   #1575
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Well, they did manage to fool a LOT of people for a number of years by making them think the writers were smarter than they really are. There's some talent in that.
And I think the writers are actually pretty good at what they do.

Unfortunately, what Lost was (as opposed to what they seemed to think it was) wasn't what they do.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:49 AM   #1576
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It entertained me for years before it petered out. I can't complain much.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:14 AM   #1577
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It entertained me for years before it petered out. I can't complain much.
Yeah, that's my basic take. It was a huge disappointment towards the end, but the beginning and middle were fantastic.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:15 AM   #1578
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Yeah, that's my basic take. It was a huge disappointment towards the end, but the beginning and middle were fantastic.
That's what she said...
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:26 AM   #1579
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But then you learned she was dead the whole time... Win!
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:31 AM   #1580
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And it was four years ago tonight...
Wow, it's hard to believe it's been 4 years.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:32 AM   #1581
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The writers sure did such a terrible job I was shocked when Once Upon A Time in Wonderland actually used as a promo "from the writers of Lost" and it meant for me the show would have stupid plots and no resolution so not much need to watch. I was proven right when it was cancelled in first year while the similar other show continues.

Yes, its been 4 years and most viewers are still mad. A proper ending could have led to a movie later where someone else goes explore the island again too. Maybe even a series of movies (like Jurassic Park did). The solution would have been for them to hire real sci-fi writers when they were not smart enough to resolve things, they were rolling in money and could sure afford it so they could do movies later, very lost opportunity.
Maybe Jurassic Park isn't the best example, since the sequels weren't very good. But I take your point.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:46 AM   #1582
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Yeah, that's my basic take. It was a huge disappointment towards the end, but the beginning and middle were fantastic.
This (I bet I've said it a dozen times in this very thread, each time it's revived)

I'm surprised it's not on in syndication on some network.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:02 AM   #1583
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I can't imagine it working in syndication. I remember one podcast where the head writers were laughing at the network falling for the initial pitch that promised that each episode would be self-contained.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:11 AM   #1584
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I've been rewatching, as my daughter watches for the first time. We're now about halfway through season three. She's loving it, and I'm enjoying the rewatch. For what it's worth, I didn't feel let-down by the final season or the finale - I enjoyed it all the way through. I acknowledge that some questions were left unanswered and that the final season was a bit of a detour - I was and am okay with how it all resolved.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:21 AM   #1585
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I I was and am okay with how it all resolved.
So am I. It was a fun ride.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:40 AM   #1586
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I've been rewatching, as my daughter watches for the first time. We're now about halfway through season three. She's loving it, and I'm enjoying the rewatch. For what it's worth, I didn't feel let-down by the final season or the finale - I enjoyed it all the way through. I acknowledge that some questions were left unanswered and that the final season was a bit of a detour - I was and am okay with how it all resolved.
This echoes my sentiments exactly. Was the show perfect? No, but it was a really fun ride overall. Out of curiosity, how old is your daughter?
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:41 AM   #1587
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Same here. The ending was fine. Not awesome. Not great. Just fine.

I felt at the time that people has unreasonable expectations. It was clear to me by then that they weren't going to explain all of the Island's mysteries, nor necessarily should they. There was no single big reveal that would satisfy a majority of fans.

The story would have been fine without most of the last season though. In previous seasons they did flashbacks, flashforwards, etc. I think they just ran out of more ways to divert from the core plot so they went with flash-purgatories for the season, exposing a reality that really didn't matter to the core plot. Thus the final season felt like a waste of time.

What surprised me is the number of people who grossly misinterpreted. You'll still hear people claiming that the Losties died during the initial plane crash and the entire series was set in a purgatory universe.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:28 PM   #1588
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Well SM, I pretty well feel that way. Why? Because only if the first seasons were dreams and not really happening would there be a valid reason for no cause or explanation of what all they came across. I mean we all have had silly dreams, so saying it was all in that universe and they were dead actually would fit a bunch better with the ending not then having to explain the reasons for Dharma, the bomb and all that.. But as usual the writers were not bright enough to even try that explanation. I think it also would not be liked, but not hated as much as what they did.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:51 PM   #1589
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This echoes my sentiments exactly. Was the show perfect? No, but it was a really fun ride overall. Out of curiosity, how old is your daughter?
Fourteen. She's discovered that a bunch of her classmates have been watching, as well. They all started watching independently, without knowing that the others were doing the same. They're all at different points, and they're all trying hard not to spoil each other but they all really want to be able to talk with each other about the show.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:09 PM   #1590
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But as usual the writers were not bright enough to even try that explanation. I think it also would not be liked, but not hated as much as what they did.
I would have been pretty unhappy with a 'they're dead the whole time' or a 'it was all a dream' explanation.

What I took away from the show:

1) Mysterious things happen on the Island that science is unable to explain.

2) This has been happening for a very long time (even pre-Jacob)

3) Numerous persons and groups (incl Dharma) have tried to find an explanation, but failed.

4) The mysterious things have some supernatural/spiritual connection (a given, since the final season had flashes to life-after-death)

I'm really alright with that level of explanation. It was a show about people coping with phenomenon they don't understand. There's no need to explain the nature of the phenomenon itself. If the characters don't find out, then we don't find out.
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