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Old 06-12-2010, 09:13 AM   #1201
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They didn't explicitly state how the sideways world worked. So we don't know for sure that it was exclusively sawyer in control of sawyer's story in the sideways world or sawyer's "soul" or whatever preventing him from succeeding. We only know that collectively they supposedly "created" the sideways world.
Right. That's just my interpretation of what was going on since we don't know for sure how the sideways world worked.

If the world was more of a virtual world, then the characters could have set things in motion, and after that things played out more naturally, meaning Sawyer's consciousness didn't have any control over whether or not he found Cooper. I disagree with that interpretation, but it's a possibility.

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Technically, the way they looked when they arrived on the island...for whatever reason, the Sidewaysverse starts with Flight 815 not crashing on the island.
Well, it started for us with that. But I'm not sure there was a "start" for the characters. And if there was, I think it would have to have been earlier since things from the past like Jack's surgery and Ben and his father leaving the island were different.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:57 PM   #1202
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After all these pages, I may be smeeking. But -

Thinking about the sideways world and the differences there. One was the dad's were a lot more pleasant - widmore, miles' dad, locke's dad and such. However, Sun's father was still someone to be worried about. I don't remember if Sawyer's dad or the real sawyer was mentioned. And Kates's stepdad was still icky....I think.

Anyway, for me, it's the mark of a great show when I am still thinking about it.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:48 AM   #1203
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Michael Emerson has explained the finale in 14 words. Seriously.

Quote:
Poor Michael "Ben Linus" Emerson is still answering questions about the Lost finale, which despite many clarifications continues to confuse a lot of people. If you're one of them, read on and all will become clear. If you haven't seen the Lost finale yet, go away, don't read this!

"Everybody was dead, but the plane really crashed, everything on the island really happened."

You can't put it much more simply than that! He also said:

"It's such a good finale, you know, humane and soulful. The antechamber to the afterlife. It's what people fantasize about."
I can see the responses now. "Oh, well that's his interpretation, of course."

Watch the video, the last line is funny. To me anyway.

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Old 06-16-2010, 02:25 AM   #1204
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Jack and Locke battle as Jedi.

http://www.cracked.com/video_18190_l...-anything.html
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:37 AM   #1205
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It's kind of scary how much that works...
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:03 AM   #1206
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Oh yuck. Sorry. I had to stop half way through. It could have been done better maybe but oh yuck my eyes are burning. And I say this as a big SW and LOST fan.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:18 PM   #1207
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:55 PM   #1208
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While I appreciate Jonah's work, I have to disagree with the placement of some of the stuff.

I'm a fellow cartographer, user the software he uses, and he and I exhibit our stuff at the same conference. Having said that, I think it's a great looking map.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:32 AM   #1209
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While I appreciate Jonah's work, I have to disagree with the placement of some of the stuff.

I'm a fellow cartographer, user the software he uses, and he and I exhibit our stuff at the same conference. Having said that, I think it's a great looking map.
I'd love to see your version...
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:07 AM   #1210
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I'd love to see your version...
Wish I had time. I really do respect his work, and think, cartographically speaking, it's an excellent map. Very nicely put together - great visuals, great colors. I saw him exhibit his map from a couple of years ago at our conference (The ESRI International User Conference).

The Conference is for users of GIS (Geographic Information Systems), and is really geared to 'reality'. GIS is used to produce maps for city, counties, states, federal agencies. It's much more than just maps, but it's easiest to say 'we make maps'.

It's unusual to find someone working on maps of fictitious places, because there's no 'reality' to ground our work in. (I've been working on a map of a fictitious place - I'd rather not say which place, though - for a couple of years now). It takes a lot of time and energy to produce these - it's not something done in Illustrator or Photoshop.

He mentions the trouble of trying to place things when no real geography is given, and the time to get to certain places seems short sometimes, and long other times. And I can certainly see why.

I guess I disagree with a couple of things, and maybe it's because of the same difficulties he ran into.

I don't like where the Black Rock is placed, in comparison to Tawaret. The vegetation (green area) running down the middle implies a significant change in topography (big hilly mountains). Plus, with the radio tower not far from Tawaret, that means the Black Rock went over quite a bit of mountains to get to where it is. (I do agree it needs to be decently close to Rousseau's camp, though.

Speaking of Rousseau - that's a long way from where the French Camp is to where she ended up. I didn't feel like she went far, but I guess she did?

I don't know about the Temple. It seems like it was a good distance away from Dharmaville. That seems too close to me.

The lighthouse - I know what Hurley said in the show. But, at the same time - the map implies that it's been passed by at least twice - once by Sayid (in Season 1, before he stumbles upon Rousseau) and then by the Taillies.

I'm not sure about the placement of the Others/Raft incident (Walt!!!). The Raft would have had to pass by Tawaret. And then they would have had to ended up drifting way over to the where the Taillies were.

Geographically, I do disagree with the placement of the church vs 815 camp. I physically visited the set, and if you're looking at the beach, from the water, it was to the right. I'd swear that was how it was depicted on the show, too.

Again - don't get me wrong. I think he did a fantastic job. I wish I had the time to dedicate to this. And I am, in no fashion, putting down his work. I really respect his efforts. Cartographically, I like his presentation a lot. I'll be curious to see if the Lost Encyclopedia has a map in it, and how it compares. I just don't know that I'd agree with where he placed everything. (And don't know that I'd have a good answer, either)
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:22 AM   #1211
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I will say I really loved the map, but if I was doing it, I would have put some things in other spots. Some of those choices just don't feel right to me. Maybe I could understand better by seeing the whole thing with all the explanations that are written around it. I think there should have been more vegatation shown around the camp. Also, that Dharmaville (I guess the barracks here) would have had Hydra closer to it. People were always jumping in a boat, kyack whatever and rowing on out to it, it should be on the same side of the island as the statue and such.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:39 AM   #1212
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You'd figure there would be a rough map in the show runners' "bible". Maybe they could pass that along to Jonah and he could take it from there. Too bad that will probably never happen (but if some of TPTB are reading this, hey, how about it?)
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:54 AM   #1213
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I don't like how small and close Hydra Island is to the main Island. While I agree that Hydra is smaller than the main Island, it wasn't that small in comparison. And I think there are at least a couple miles of ocean between the two islands. On the western side of Maui, you can see Molokai and Lanai very well, but they're quite a ways away. I always felt like Hydra was anywhere from 3-10 miles away, not 1/3 mile, as his map seems to indicate.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:07 AM   #1214
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Also, that Dharmaville (I guess the barracks here) would have had Hydra closer to it. People were always jumping in a boat, kyack whatever and rowing on out to it, it should be on the same side of the island as the statue and such.
Thank you! That was the other thing I failed to mention. I felt like Hydra island was a lot closer to Dharmaville than it's depicted on this map. And it little bit farther away.

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I'd love to see your version...
And I know you were being serious in your question, and not poking fun/daring me. I really am a professional cartographer (just like Jonas is), but, sadly, I do have a day job and a life. Because, trust me - I would *love* to create this map myself. I just don't have the time to do it. Not because I don't have the skill. My maps have been on TV, published by National Geographic, won awards, etc.

At work, I even joke that because I'm middle management these days, they don't let me make maps anymore. I only get to ask my staff to do them, and then all I get to do is make suggestions on how to improve them. I don't get to make them any more.
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:00 AM   #1215
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Did anybody see Jimmy Kimmels "Un-necessary Censorship" bit the night before the finale. OMG, one of the funniest things I've seen in years. Try to Youtube it, or see if ABC still has that episode on the website.

I can't do it justice, but it goes like this. They went and found scenes throughout the series where a character said something that began with the letter "F" and then bleeped it out. So, it sounds as if they are saying the "F Word" in your head. I don't know why, but your mind automatically fills in that word as you listen to it. The result is, it sounds like that characters are saying that word in all kinds of crazy places.

They had the Actor who plays Bernard in the audience and even he was in stitches. You owe it to yourself to watch it.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:36 AM   #1216
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I think it was posted earlier in this thread, stiffi.

"Shh! I &%$@ your son's dog." - Locke

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Old 06-21-2010, 07:53 AM   #1217
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I haven't read this thread, but I just dreamt that I watched an epilogue, with Hugo and Ben on the Island. It involved cameos from the Ghost Whisperer, the Justice League of America, and other friends of mine. The true boss' of the Island were the Guardians of the Galaxy. It was pretty vivid, pretty weird, and I wish I could remember all of it. Of course, it really didn't explain anything.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:34 PM   #1218
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I haven't read this thread, but I just dreamt that I watched an epilogue, with Hugo and Ben on the Island. It involved cameos from the Ghost Whisperer, the Justice League of America, and other friends of mine. The true boss' of the Island were the Guardians of the Galaxy. It was pretty vivid, pretty weird, and I wish I could remember all of it. Of course, it really didn't explain anything.
Huh?
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:17 PM   #1219
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Huh?
"I just dreamt..."
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:43 PM   #1220
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I haven't read this thread, but I just dreamt that I watched an epilogue, with Hugo and Ben on the Island. It involved cameos from the Ghost Whisperer, the Justice League of America, and other friends of mine. The true boss' of the Island were the Guardians of the Galaxy. It was pretty vivid, pretty weird, and I wish I could remember all of it. Of course, it really didn't explain anything.
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:42 PM   #1221
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I just finished a Stephen King book, Cell, and it reminded me of Lost. Not that the plot was anything like it, but it never explained exactly what happened or why, and the way things progressed really didn't make much sense, but....it was an awesome book. I couldn't put it down. The characters were well developed and the storytelling put you right there in the time and place. The trip is more important than looking back at the overall outline, and judging it. Of course, if you could have both......

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Old 07-20-2010, 12:04 PM   #1222
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This was probably posted somewhere here but I didn't see it and thought it was interesting.

Post by someone who worked in the writer’s room for LOST, from DARKUFO:

First …
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people’s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a “Protector”. Jacob wasn’t the first, Hurley won’t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still … Dharma’s purpose is not “pointless” or even vague. Hell, it’s pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his “candidates” (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of “candidates” through the decades and letting them “choose” which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn’t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector — I know that’s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won’t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he’d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we’ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on …

Now…

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least — because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer’s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we’re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it’s not exactly the best word). But these people we’re linked to are with us duing “the most important moments of our lives” as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It’s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this “sideways” world where they exist in purgatory until they are “awakened” and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show’s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own “Sideways” purgatory with their “soulmates” throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That’s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren’t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It’s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events — not JUST because of Jacob. But because that’s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that’s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer’s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways “purgatory” with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died — some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley’s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are “awakened” and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren’t in the chuch — basically everyone who wasn’t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here’s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It’s possible that those links aren’t people from the island but from their other life (Anna’s parnter, the guy she shot — Roussou’s husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for early Season 1,2 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church … and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I’ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I’ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don’t touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story — even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:09 PM   #1223
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Yes, that was already posted and discussed in this thread.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #1224
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Yes, that was already posted and discussed in this thread.
Sorry about that. Did a search but I didn't go down far enough.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:31 PM   #1225
DevdogAZ
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Sorry about that. Did a search but I didn't go down far enough.
No problem. I don't care about the smeek. I just thought you might be interested in the ensuing discussion, so that's why I pointed you to it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:52 PM   #1226
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Thanks for reposting that. I'm still not sure I like what the show was ultimately about, but it was a fun ride, and I'm rewatching S1 right now looking for clues to the utlimate puzzle.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:58 PM   #1227
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Thanks for reposting that. I'm still not sure I like what the show was ultimately about, but it was a fun ride, and I'm rewatching S1 right now looking for clues to the utlimate puzzle.
Me too! Watching it with my oldest (who is going on 14).
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:53 AM   #1228
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In case you were looking for more Lost.........

http://io9.com/5597853/the-last-lost...t-to-stay-pure
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:06 AM   #1229
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Happy Lost: The Complete Collection delivery day!
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:28 AM   #1230
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Happy Lost: The Complete Collection delivery day!
Still debating whether to buy this or not. $199 is a big nut to lay out, considering I have S1-5 on DVD already. Might just go for S6 on BD and go from there. Maybe Netflix any special discs that come with the complete set and watch them that way.
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