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Old 05-24-2010, 09:34 AM   #391
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And then Libby doesn't even show up at the end. Was she not Hurley's true love?

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Old 05-24-2010, 09:35 AM   #392
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However, as I watched the finale I realized that I don't like most of the characters. Hurley was the only sympathetic character and he was stuck on the island, his true love dead. And then Libby doesn't even show up at the end. Was she not Hurley's true love? Hurley's fate was to hang out with Ben for centuries? This ending for Hurley felt like the rest of the series to me - things were done because they were cool from a theatrical point of view but they made no sense for the plot or for the characters.
Libby was in the church.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:35 AM   #393
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Libby was in the church.
I guess I cared so little by then that I didn't even notice.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:35 AM   #394
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Also, what happened to all the people that went with locke before he killed everyone in the temple? ie the flight attendant and the children? Did they get stuck on the island?
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:37 AM   #395
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Alan Sepinwall has his review up. He has one line that really struck home for me:

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When "Lost" was really and truly great, it locked you so deep into the emotions of the moment that the larger questions didn't really matter.

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Old 05-24-2010, 09:38 AM   #396
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So the whole "raised by another (an other)" concept...could that have maybe all come from Jacob's beginning? Jacob and MIB were raised by another.

Jacob says he crossed Kate's name off because she became a mother. It seems as if he really resented being born on the island and forced into the job of protecting it without being given a choice. So he sent the warning to Claire so Aaron wouldn't have to worry about being in the same situation one day???
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:39 AM   #397
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I was thinking that this was just all the old wreckage that had been there for 3 or 6 or whatever years since they crashed. Some of it had been used to build stuff but some had just been left.
I agree. Interestingly, after the beginning of the first season, they really didn't show the crash debris that much at all, even when they returned to and were living on the beach.

Probably because it was too expensive of a set piece to set up and keep there.

I wonder if they shot that at the beginning of the series, or if they put it back together for the end.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:40 AM   #398
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I read the end title shot of the plane wreckage as them just saying "This is where we began".
That was my very initial thought but then I started thinking it was the Ajira plane. I couldn't tell much from the screen caps. I definitely don't recall ever seeing the wheels in the Oceanic wreckage. I would like to think that it was the Ajira flight. For one thing, Kate and Sawyer are on the plane together, but end up with Jack and Juliet in the end. I'd find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have gotten together if they'd both made it back home.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:40 AM   #399
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I agree. Interestingly, after the beginning of the first season, they really didn't show the crash debris that much at all, even when they returned to and were living on the beach.

Probably because it was too expensive of a set piece to set up and keep there.

I wonder if they shot that at the beginning of the series, or if they put it back together for the end.
Remember, they moved down the beach to a new camp when they had trouble with the tides or something.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:41 AM   #400
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After the episode about the origins of Jacob/MiB, I finally accepted that we weren't going to get answers, that the writers didn't consider the show a mystery. So I changed my thinking. I thought that I would be satisfied if the finale brought the characters to satisfying conclusions to their lives, or at least resolutions to the issues that had made them "broken".

However, as I watched the finale I realized that I don't like most of the characters. Hurley was the only sympathetic character and he was stuck on the island, his true love dead. And then Libby doesn't even show up at the end. [Edit: It has been pointed out that Libby was there. I didn't notice. I cared that little by then.] Was she not Hurley's true love? Hurley's fate was to hang out with Ben for centuries? This ending for Hurley felt like the rest of the series to me - things were done because they were cool from a theatrical point of view but they made no sense for the plot or for the characters.

The more I think about it the more impressed I am by how the writers managed to wrap it all up with a very simple device (the flash sideways as purgatory or whatever you want to call it). That neatly resolved many questions. But I'm still unsatisfied because I couldn't be satisfied - I just didn't care about the characters. No ending could have satisfied me. It's just a shame that I couldn't have figured that out years ago.
Libby was in the church with Hugo..
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:52 AM   #401
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Write my name in chalk on the wall of this thread amongst those who are satisfied with the finale. I loved it, even though there are parts of it I am still mulling over. While there are a few questions I wish had been addressed (How Walt fit in to all of this, why it was so important for Aaron not to be raised by another/an Other), I am content. Bravo to the writers, and thank you for 6 years of first-rate escapist entertainment.

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I guess a big question would be - What is Desmond?
A catalyst. In purgatory, he was just as clueless as everyone else until Charlie drove him off the pier and woke him up.

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You only went there when you died, whenever that was. It existed outside of time.

Unless it was just Jack's dying fantasy.
Dammit, Rob. I thought I had it all worked out -- I was squarely in Turleboy's camp -- until you posted this alternate hypothesis. Now I think you may be right.

If it was all in Jack's head as he lay dying, then that would explain why we heard the sound of the Ajira flight passing overhead each episode this season during the cuts to the flash-sideways world (now a.k.a purgatory), since that is the last thing Jack saw/heard as he died.

What we were seeing in this finale episode was Jack's purgatory, which is not necessarily the same purgatory everyone else would experience. We were following Jack's story. I actually tried to hit on this possibility back in March, with this post:

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So, anyone think it is possible that we're seeing more than two realities? There's the "Island" Reality, and what we've been calling the "Sideways" Reality. But what if each sideways reality is a separate and distinct variation? We are seeing what each character's reality would have been had they not been touched by Jacob. But are we seeing one sideways reality that all the characters share in common, or multiple realities with each character at the center of their own reality?

...

I'm not sure I buy into this -- in fact I'm pretty sure I don't -- but it's an intriguing possibility. If there are going to be multiple realities, why stop at two?
In other episodes this season, we were seeing the purgatories of other characters. In this final episode, everything coalesced back into one and they were all finally ready to move on, together.

wombat94 a few posts back, eloquently summed up what I think might actually be the true answer. It's kind of a union of the Turtleboy and Helmerich hypotheses.

Some other thoughts:

Time is meaningless in purgatory, which is a good explanation for the time discrepancies we were complaining about this season (e.g. the speed at which Locke got fired/got a new job/got run over etc, which seems like it should have occurred over a span of weeks, versus Sun's sideways story, which happened over a few days, yet they wound up wheeled into the ER at the same time. It also explains why Marvin Candle didn't look old, which was another continuity complaint people had.

I laughed out loud when Flocke spotted Vincent's paw print at Desmond's well. Presumably Vincent found Desmond, and ran off to get Rose and Bernard who rescued him from the well. ("What's that, Lassie? Timmy's fallen into a well?")
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Last edited by danterner : 05-24-2010 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:57 AM   #402
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This may be the best explanation I read, from a friend's Facebook post:

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The Island was definitely real. While Jack dies in the bamboo field where he fell from the plane (brilliant last shot of his eye closing), with Vincent, he is wearing different clothes. Not much time this morning, so I copy and pasted what I said in a post to another friend last night:

They didn't die in the crash. The Island ... See Moretimeline was real. Notice that even though it ends with Jack in the bamboo with Vincent, eye closing, he's in different clothes. And Hurley thanks Ben for being a good second (ie, Hurley was in the Jacob role, with Ben as his helper -- his Richard, I supposed -- for some period of time). The Sideways timeline is what isn't real, what they create for themselves to get to live out what they missed in the Island (real) timeline. So Ben gets a loving father and a normal life. Locke gets a loving dad and wife (Helen). Daniel gets to be a musician. Eloise gets Daniel to live a normal life, and gets Charles. (Eloise isn't ready to give up Daniel yet, which is why Daniel and Charlotte are not at the church.) Jack gets a son. Kate gets to be innocent. Etc etc. They all die at different times and different places in life. But when they're ready, they flash to what was really the most important and meaningful time in their lives -- the Island. That's why Christian says there's no *now* Time is meaningless. Hurley may have died hundreds of years after Jack. That doesn't matter. The idea is that they'll go on to heaven together.
Not much I can say to improve on that.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:58 AM   #403
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I laughed out loud when Flocke spotted Vincent's paw print at Desmond's well. Presumably Vincent found Desmond, and ran off to get Rose and Bernard who rescued him from the well. ("What's that, Lassie? Timmy's fallen into a well?")
Yes, I laughed too. It was especially fun because many fans had predicted or joked about that happening. This has happened thru the series, where fans suggest something or a reason and it comes into being in the plot. I can't remember any at the moment, but I know there were a couple.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:01 AM   #404
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So if the flash sideways was a purgatory-like world where they are dead and waiting for everyone to remember and join them, does that mean everyone else in that world is also dead? There is a whole population in that world that we saw during the flash sideways this year with whom the losties interacted.

Saw Aaron at the church (still a baby). Do they appear as they did when they died or remembered the island events? What to make of a baby in this scenario.

I think I liked it, but as usual, many questions linger or arise. A show or movie is soured for me when a complicated ride is left open to interpretation at the end. I appreciate the ride provided for me btu I am not a writer. Don't leave me to try and figure out what happened or what happens next. It's not my story. There are writers...tell me the ending!
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:01 AM   #405
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I've had some time to think about this...in fact, it kept me up a lot last night. I've come to the following conclusion:

The ending had the potential to be the best series finale ever. The way it just brought everyone together and left them feeling happy was great.

But the writers ruined all that from what they created this season. They had this whole season to answer questions...questions that they had to have known the fans were expecting answers for. But instead, they created more mysteries. Jacob and MIB (and why exactly could we not know his name?). And what happened to Claire. Why did she end up going crazy after being dunked in the healing waters. Was I imagining this or at one point were we told that they would have a scientific explanation for everything on the island?

I didn't need them to go into great detail...like, I don't care that the statue only had four toes. So what. You could have just told me that it was more cost-effective to have a four-toed statue. I didn't need an explanation to that. It just upsets me that they spent this season creating new characters and storylines all to have it mean absolutely nothing when they could have used that time to at least answer SOME questions. If they would have taken the time to do that, then I would have had a greater appreciation for the afterlife ending. Instead, it just brought me to the realization that the writers never had any answers in mind. They took it as far as they could and then gave us an ending that fell short.

I knew going into this that there was a high chance that I would be disappointed in the ending. You can't make everyone happy, afterall. But what I did expect was to be able to get something that would tie it all together, so when I go back to rewatch the series I could go....ooohhhh, now that makes more sense.
Well put.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:02 AM   #406
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...and then Bob Newhart woke up with Suzanne Pleshette by his side!
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:02 AM   #407
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I have a sneaking suspicion that the sideways reality was created for Season 6 just so the producers would have questions that could be answered, because they painted themselves into a corner with all of the Island's mysteries.
Yep.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:08 AM   #408
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I found Alt-Locke's momentary "lapse" into real Locke's character rather interesting. For a long time, I was not convinced that it was not the MIB who had taken Christian's form the same way that he had taken Locke's. There were several key differences, namely that he basically referred to himself as though he actually were Christian, e.g. when he told (real) Locke to "say hello to my son" before Locke turned the donkey wheel, and I believe he referred to himself as Christian by name a number of times. However, personality-wise, he didn't seem much like Christian at all, at least in the times we saw him alive, usually with Jack. He was generally a somewhat cold sort of person.

But when he was Locke, he really seemed to take on John Locke's mannerisms and general personality, but IIRC never really purported or pretended to actually be John Locke, at least once it started to become clear to us as the audience that he wasn't. But then he started talking to Jack about how it seemed like old times at the Hatch, etc.

Also we saw Locke's body but Christian's was never found.

Anyway, that is one of the things I never got much resolution on. I mean they confirmed that MIB actually did become Christian (in the recap show) but never really explained those differences.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:16 AM   #409
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- How'd they get that big ass tree off of Linus? He was spry afterwards for having a tree fall on him.
I don't think the tree fell ON him. It fell on a rock,creating a space between the tree and the ground that was big enough not to crush ben, but small enough to pin him in:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displa...-1557-908.html
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:18 AM   #410
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I don't think the tree fell ON him. It fell on a rock,creating a space between the tree and the ground that was big enough not to crush ben, but small enough to pin him in:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displa...-1557-908.html
I had a flashback to Sun in the sub and wondered who was going to stay and die with him.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:20 AM   #411
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Anyway, that is one of the things I never got much resolution on. I mean they confirmed that MIB actually did become Christian (in the recap show) but never really explained those differences.
And also, why was MIB now permanately stuck in the form of Locke?
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:21 AM   #412
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They didn't die in the crash. The Island ... See Moretimeline was real. Notice that even though it ends with Jack in the bamboo with Vincent, eye closing, he's in different clothes. And Hurley thanks Ben for being a good second (ie, Hurley was in the Jacob role, with Ben as his helper -- his Richard, I supposed -- for some period of time). The Sideways timeline is what isn't real, what they create for themselves to get to live out what they missed in the Island (real) timeline. So Ben gets a loving father and a normal life. Locke gets a loving dad and wife (Helen). Daniel gets to be a musician. Eloise gets Daniel to live a normal life, and gets Charles. (Eloise isn't ready to give up Daniel yet, which is why Daniel and Charlotte are not at the church.) Jack gets a son. Kate gets to be innocent. Etc etc. They all die at different times and different places in life. But when they're ready, they flash to what was really the most important and meaningful time in their lives -- the Island. That's why Christian says there's no *now* Time is meaningless. Hurley may have died hundreds of years after Jack. That doesn't matter. The idea is that they'll go on to heaven together.
If this is so, why would Kate create another life in which she was a fugitive? And why would Sayid create another life where he was a killer and couldn't be with Nadia?
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:21 AM   #413
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Thank you for posting a reasoned response - unlike some others here who choose to insult others that don't agree with them.
Well, I think others posted the way they did because, the explanation of the smoke monster as just given to you was a fairly important part of a very recent episode and thus should still be fresh in your mind. I'm pretty sure everyone here assumed you were well aware of the nature of the smoke monster, but that for some reason you were looking for even MORE details about his creation. Thus the jokes about knowing the molecular structure and midichlorians and such.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:21 AM   #414
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Yes. If it wasn't a shot for shot replica of the opening shots from the pilot, it was pretty close.
I noticed that they even had the shoe hanging from a tree that he had passed by in the pilot.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:22 AM   #415
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So the whole "raised by another (an other)" concept...could that have maybe all come from Jacob's beginning? Jacob and MIB were raised by another.

Jacob says he crossed Kate's name off because she became a mother. It seems as if he really resented being born on the island and forced into the job of protecting it without being given a choice. So he sent the warning to Claire so Aaron wouldn't have to worry about being in the same situation one day???
I think it was only with respect to the fact that she had certain responsibilities in raising a child while conversely, his "mother" was only trying to raise a successor.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:22 AM   #416
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Aside from that, was there ever a point to the Tailies except to reunite Rose and her husband?
The point was to tell an entertaining and engrossing story.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:24 AM   #417
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And also, why was MIB now permanately stuck in the form of Locke?
That was something that happened when Jacob died but like so many other things the exact reason wasn't given.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:25 AM   #418
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For all the people saying the show was all about the characters, i can go with that. However, for me, the island was a character and I think it was purposely written that way. So yeah, after six years I'm a little disappointed that the island questions didn't get some kind of answers.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:25 AM   #419
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The point was to tell an entertaining and engrossing story.
To get a bunch of new actors to Hawaii and get them arrested for DUI's and get some publicity going for the show and then have to find a way to write them out of the plot.

Oh, and besides Rose, it let Libby and Hurley find each other.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:27 AM   #420
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I'd appreciate if someone could fill in one bit which appears to be a lapse in my memory. In previous flashes, we saw that Jack and his son had a very adversarial relationship. Then in recent flashes, it was like jack was the best dad in the world and always had been. I had been thinking that the difference was that the not-good-dad-jack was in the flash forwards and the good-dad-jack was in the flash-sideways. But now that we've been told jack doesn't have a son, then I'm guessing all of those clips were in the FSW clips and I'm just mixed up. So what happened? I remember jack showed up at his son's piano recital and maybe things patched up from there, but I'm not sure how that lead to their best-buddy relationship. Is there something there I'm missing or misremembering?
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