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Old 05-24-2010, 08:41 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by betts4 View Post
This made me laugh out loud. Thanks!
Me, too.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:43 AM   #362
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First Post from a lurker...

Hi all... I've been reading the TC boards and the Lost threads since the beginning, I just don't appear to have ever posted re: Lost before (looking at my posts - I can't really believe it, but that's what I see).

I went to sleep last night after JKL not sure what I felt about the finale, but when I woke up, JK's theory really brought me to my own underastanding.

I have read some of this thread, but not all, but here is my understanding of what went on in these 6 seasons.
.....
Thanks for laying it all out there! I agree with everything you said. That is how I understood it all to be!
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:48 AM   #363
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First Post from a lurker...

A+ on the finale, the final season in retrospect and the series as a whole.
Post more!

That was great. I totally missed the Hanso connection before.

The whole thing with Jacob -well you know, he was raised by a lone crazy woman and not allowed any interaction with anyone else until later when he could go out to the world and find the candidates and 'touch them'. He must have had some serious relationship/social issues going on, some of which was shown by his snarky attitude sometimes.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:52 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by wombat94 View Post
First Post from a lurker...

Hi all... I've been reading the TC boards and the Lost threads since the beginning, I just don't appear to have ever posted re: Lost before (looking at my posts - I can't really believe it, but that's what I see).

I went to sleep last night after JKL not sure what I felt about the finale, but when I woke up, JK's theory really brought me to my own underastanding.

I have read some of this thread, but not all, but here is my understanding of what went on in these 6 seasons.

1. Oceanic 815 really did crash on the Island... all of the on-island, and 3 years of off-island stuff really did happen. Jack really did take over from Jacob, and with Desmond's (and Kate's) help he did defeat Smokey and put the plug back in to save the island. All of that was real.

2. This season's flash sideways was taking place in some sort of limbo that Jack inhabited until he was ready to move on to his place in the afterlife. BUT what we are seeing in the flash sideways is Jack's limbo. Just as there is no real concept of time in the FSW, there's no one reality in the FSW - it is what each of them makes of it.

3. I believe that most of the other losties we see in the Flash sideways have already moved on in their own realities... some probably did so very quickly and easily in their lives (Sun and Jin I believe probably moved on together very easily since they were reunited at their deaths and were together). But others may have been stuck for a long time in their own limbo after their death.

4. Desmond is the "Constant" and he still retains a certain ability to transcend space/time throughout all of this. Whatever Desmond is, it is beyond the rest of the people. But at the end of the real island timeline that we've seen, Desmond is going to live, and Hurley/Ben send him back home to be with Penny/little Charlie. He lives the rest of his natural life out and then once in the afterlife still has a role as a catalyst... helping to facilitate the moving on by other people once they are ready.

5. I think that the "remembering" each of our familiar people experiences is their eternal "soul", or "essence" for lack of a better term, being brought fully conscious into Jack's limbo - because it is necessary for Jack to deal with his own experience in order to move on and through Desmond's actions, they are made aware that Jack is approaching the time when he will be ready - they are there to help him once he is ready.

6. I think David doesn't really exist and never did exist. He's a construct of Jack's mind - a way for Jack to work through the issues with his father that he never could work through in life. The interactions we saw between Jack and David this season were critical to Jack finally being able to come to terms with his own feelings about his relationship with his father - and lay them to rest. At that point, Jack was ready to move on from his limbo.

7. We don't know how long this could have taken Jack in terms of earthly timeline - it may have been a year, 10 years or a thousand years. As implied by the Hurley/Ben interaction outside of the church it was at least quite a while since Hugo was a good leader in the past tense. Obviously from Kate's reaction, it has taken quite a while for Jack to be ready.

8. This is Jack's moving on experience... but in some way it is a reality that is still shared. Once Ben was brought into this reality, he could choose to stay for a while there - in order to really get to know Danielle and spend time with Alex. Similarly, Eloise and Daniel can stay there (along with Charlotte) - Daniel may not be ready to move on until something else happens.

So that's the big mythology related things and to me, it sums up for me the whole series in an emotionally satisfying way. From an intellectual standpoint, there are parts of it that won't ever work but it is fiction/fantasy and it is faith related, so I'm okay with that.

As for some of the "mysteries" of the island, there were a few realizations that I came to last night.

1. Jacob was a grade-A jerk. Yes he had this thrust upon him, and he claimed to want to give each of them a choice, but some choice and method he had, huh?

2. I should have really realized this, back in Ab Aeterno, but with one little reference to Captain Hanso of the Black Rock, in retrospect, that answered all the questions for me satisfactorily about the Dharma Initiative. It was financed by the Hanso foundation - a cover organization for Jacob to keep funnelling potential replacement candidates to the island. To me it even explains the airdrops of supplies in 2004/2005 from the Dharma initiative - Jacob calls for supplies when he needs them in order to help new arrivals on the island.

3. Jacob made up the rules of the game. Clearly the guardian of the light has a lot of sway in the setting of the rules. Jacob set them as he saw fit - but Hugo could change them.

I've got a lot more, but this is way longer than I originally intended.

The more I think about it, the more satisfied I am with the resolution. It's not Six Feet Under finale, but that wouldn't ring true for Lost.

A+ on the finale, the final season in retrospect and the series as a whole.
Well put!
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:52 AM   #365
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I wish the actors had said their lines a little better/clearer...at the time, I THOUGHT Hugo said "were" but could not be sure that it was "are"...I listened to it about 5 times and could not tell; which makes a huge difference, of course, in understanding what was going on...
Closed captioning definitely said "were".
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:53 AM   #366
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I've had some time to think about this...in fact, it kept me up a lot last night. I've come to the following conclusion:

The ending had the potential to be the best series finale ever. The way it just brought everyone together and left them feeling happy was great.

But the writers ruined all that from what they created this season. They had this whole season to answer questions...questions that they had to have known the fans were expecting answers for. But instead, they created more mysteries. Jacob and MIB (and why exactly could we not know his name?). And what happened to Claire. Why did she end up going crazy after being dunked in the healing waters. Was I imagining this or at one point were we told that they would have a scientific explanation for everything on the island?

I didn't need them to go into great detail...like, I don't care that the statue only had four toes. So what. You could have just told me that it was more cost-effective to have a four-toed statue. I didn't need an explanation to that. It just upsets me that they spent this season creating new characters and storylines all to have it mean absolutely nothing when they could have used that time to at least answer SOME questions. If they would have taken the time to do that, then I would have had a greater appreciation for the afterlife ending. Instead, it just brought me to the realization that the writers never had any answers in mind. They took it as far as they could and then gave us an ending that fell short.

I knew going into this that there was a high chance that I would be disappointed in the ending. You can't make everyone happy, afterall. But what I did expect was to be able to get something that would tie it all together, so when I go back to rewatch the series I could go....ooohhhh, now that makes more sense.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:53 AM   #367
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Jack was not the last to die just the last to "come around" on them being in purgatory? So they needed Desmond "the constant" and Hurley to get everyone to "see" since everyone was dead now and they could move on? I just really want to know who was the last to die. Did Desmond who came back to the Island with Widmore and thrown into the well know that there was a sideways world waiting to be resolved?
Jack was among the first to die since he died shortly after they came back to the island. Only people like Boone and Shannon and Locke died earlier. The rest died later. I would say Hurley probably died THOUSANDS of years later. (Remember how long Jacob was the protector of the island). Ben, too, since Hurley probably extended his life they way Jacob did Richard. But since time is meaningless in this place, they are both always there and never there. Once the ones that were really important to Jack died, that's when he finally accepted the memory flashes he was seeing and was able to go into the church and meet up with everyone again.

Desmond didn't know about the flash sideways when he was on the island. Remember everything on the island HAPPENED and in real time. Everything that happened in the flash sideways happened at wildly varying times and after people were dead.

I think Jack's son was the child he wanted but was never able to have. So he spent part of his afterlife enjoying raising a son he never really had.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:56 AM   #368
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I don't know what the actor who played Walt did but they didn't even give him a one episode, brief cameo paycheck. Heck, even Vincent got paid.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:00 AM   #369
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I don't know what the actor who played Walt did but they didn't even give him a one episode, brief cameo paycheck. Heck, even Vincent got paid.
I think they considered Walt's story wrapped up after Locke donkey-wheeled his way off the island and met with Walt briefly. I can't remember the conversation, but I remember it seemed to indicate that Walt was past his life on the Island.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:00 AM   #370
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I don't know what the actor who played Walt did but they didn't even give him a one episode, brief cameo paycheck. Heck, even Vincent got paid.
I think I read somewhere last night that he had a scene that was cut. So, probably on the DVD.

I also saw a picture of Christian speaking from the church podium, at least he appeared to be, so maybe that's on the DVD too.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:01 AM   #371
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I don't know what the actor who played Walt did but they didn't even give him a one episode, brief cameo paycheck. Heck, even Vincent got paid.
I think the way he now looks in real life (6 years older) just wouldn't work with what he should look like based on the timeline of the show.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:01 AM   #372
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I don't know what the actor who played Walt did but they didn't even give him a one episode, brief cameo paycheck. Heck, even Vincent got paid.
He grew up. I mean, grew tall for the timeline.

And didn't we see how his life had moved on from the island time and became "unflawed".
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:11 AM   #373
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Regarding the questions about Widmore - on the Kimmel show, even the actor who played Widmore (too lazy to look up his name) says that he still doesn't know whether Widmore was good or bad. So how could we know?
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:14 AM   #374
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If that's the answer then I just don't get it. I just read the wiki entry for the episode and that didn't help either.

If I just forget about the FSW, things make a bit more sense, but the FSW just confuses the hell out of me. I don't understand why living people are in the FSW when that is supposed to be some afterlife thing. Why are living people there?
There are no living people there, Some died earlier, some later, but they were all dead. Coul be yeaterday, or 100 years from today bu the were all dead, And since time has no meaning there they could alkl experience it together, whenever they died
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:20 AM   #375
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Regarding the questions about Widmore - on the Kimmel show, even the actor who played Widmore (too lazy to look up his name) says that he still doesn't know whether Widmore was good or bad. So how could we know?
Alan Dale. I think I read once that he didn't think much of LOST. Kind of how Alec Guiness thought about Star Wars. I got the impression he just showed up and read his lines. So, I was surprised to see him on Kimmel.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:21 AM   #376
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The only thing I really had a problem with (and it's bugged me all season), is the idea that they'd be able to fly the plane off the island. But the good far outweighed the bad.
I wasn't thinking that so much, but I was wondering where they thought they were going to go, and whether they'd have enough fuel to get there.

But, as far as being able to leave goes, perhaps they were able to once the MIB was dead? Jacob had said that the island was like a cork to keep evil from escaping, so perhaps whatever it was that prevented people from leaving (at least without following a specific bearing or taking a submarine ride that required sedation) was no longer necessary?

That being said, when they first showed the wreckage on the beach at the very very end, I thought that it was the Ajira plane. I'm guessing based on the comments here that it wasn't, but I was thinking that it crashed, so we wouldn't have to speculate about what happened to Kate, Sawyer, etc.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:21 AM   #377
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David doesn't exist? That sucks.
Maybe, he does.
What if Kate was pregnant when she left on Ajiria 316?
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:22 AM   #378
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That being said, when they first showed the wreckage on the beach at the very very end, I thought that it was the Ajira plane. I'm guessing based on the comments here that it wasn't, but I was thinking that it crashed, so we wouldn't have to speculate about what happened to Kate, Sawyer, etc.
I read the end title shot of the plane wreckage as them just saying "This is where we began".
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:24 AM   #379
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I'd love to see a screenshot of that final plane wreckage.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:25 AM   #380
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I wasn't thinking that so much, but I was wondering where they thought they were going to go, and whether they'd have enough fuel to get there.
Those parts did not bother me; Frank has experience flying to and from the Island, so I can accept that if he keeps the same heading he did then, they could escape the Island. My problem was mainly taking off without a proper runway...
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:25 AM   #381
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I'd love to see a screenshot of that final plane wreckage.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/thumbn...7-page-35.html
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:27 AM   #382
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Frank survived a submarine explosion? PLEASE!
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:28 AM   #383
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I think the way he now looks in real life (6 years older) just wouldn't work with what he should look like based on the timeline of the show.
Yeah, but this show had time travel. They could have easily have come up with something if they'd wanted to. It's not like they felt the need to give concrete reasons for weirdness.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:28 AM   #384
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I read the end title shot of the plane wreckage as them just saying "This is where we began".
I was thinking that this was just all the old wreckage that had been there for 3 or 6 or whatever years since they crashed. Some of it had been used to build stuff but some had just been left.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:29 AM   #385
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:30 AM   #386
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Frank survived a submarine explosion? PLEASE!
A tree fell on Ben and he didn't even have a limp.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #387
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I was not disappointed by the ending. I'm not sure how crazy I am about the entire "flash sideways" and thinking of the entire season as the ending, I have to give it some more thought. But given that it was, I thought the finale was great.

As for the nuke, I don't think the fact that the island didn't sink meant that it didn't detonate (Japan is still there, after all) but if all that happened was they were transported in time just before it killed them, well, maybe I'm being being scientifically nitpicky but that would have to have happened pretty darn quickly. So if it did end up that "what happened, happened", then I guess we have to conclude that the surviving Dharma people cleaned up from the nuke explosion, and resumed construction of "the hatch" in the same location, right?
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #388
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After the episode about the origins of Jacob/MiB, I finally accepted that we weren't going to get answers, that the writers didn't consider the show a mystery. So I changed my thinking. I thought that I would be satisfied if the finale brought the characters to satisfying conclusions to their lives, or at least resolutions to the issues that had made them "broken".

However, as I watched the finale I realized that I don't like most of the characters. Hurley was the only sympathetic character and he was stuck on the island, his true love dead. And then Libby doesn't even show up at the end. [Edit: It has been pointed out that Libby was there. I didn't notice. I cared that little by then.] Was she not Hurley's true love? Hurley's fate was to hang out with Ben for centuries? This ending for Hurley felt like the rest of the series to me - things were done because they were cool from a theatrical point of view but they made no sense for the plot or for the characters.

The more I think about it the more impressed I am by how the writers managed to wrap it all up with a very simple device (the flash sideways as purgatory or whatever you want to call it). That neatly resolved many questions. But I'm still unsatisfied because I couldn't be satisfied - I just didn't care about the characters. No ending could have satisfied me. It's just a shame that I couldn't have figured that out years ago.

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Old 05-24-2010, 09:33 AM   #389
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At the end of the pre-show, the producers said that how you interpret the end of the show says a lot about your personal views. As a non-religious person, I don't take the sideways at face value. I suspect that the entire sideways occurred in Jack's head, in the last few minutes before he died after he saved the island. I see it as a wish-fulfillment, a "what if we didn't have all this bad stuff happen to us, but we could still be together".

I'm satisfied.
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If the light in the center of the island goes out, everyone dies. So, even though MIB was made mortal and powerless, it all ends badly anyway.
I think that the Light was both good and bad, sort of like salt. A little salt is good for a recipe, too much is bad. With a plug blocking most of the light from getting out of the hole, and water diffusing it further, the light is good for the island. Let it release more quickly and unfiltered, things go bad.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:33 AM   #390
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I have a sneaking suspicion that the sideways reality was created for Season 6 just so the producers would have questions that could be answered, because they painted themselves into a corner with all of the Island's mysteries.
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