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Old 05-24-2010, 07:48 AM   #331
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If anyone hears what extra story bits are going to be on the DVD, please spoil me.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:50 AM   #332
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Wow...what a wild ride that was!

So many pages on his thread already!

Ok so one quick question....was there supposed to be meaning to the end credits showing the deserted island showing just plane wreckage, or was it just a simple.."this is where it all began" time montage(sp)??
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:51 AM   #333
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They answered that. The smoke monster was a pissed-off MIB, post falling into a pool of super-electromagnetic Island energy. The two interacted in such a way that the Smoke monster was created.

OK, not a bad explanation. So why was it important to keep him trapped on the island? Because in the end they made it all about protecting the island. Jacob used the metaphor of the wine in the bottle being evil, and the cork being the island, which kept that evil bottled up. I know I'm repeating what I just said above, but, I just would have liked to have found out what might have happened had MIB escaped the island. In his final form as a regular-guy-who-can-be-killed-by-a-bullet, I just don't see how he could have done any real harm.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:51 AM   #334
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or was it just a simple.."this is where it all began" time montage(sp)??
I think just it was just that.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #335
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I don't remember. Was Richard at the final scene at the end, and did he ever appear in the Flash sideways?

I think he may still be immortal. He started to age when the stopper was out of the hole, but I wonder if he continues to age afterward? Or does he need to be on the Island to be immortal? He has left the Island before.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #336
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As for the Man In Black, I would have liked to have found out exactly what would have happened to everyone if he had escaped from the island. Supposedly it would have been very bad for the world (everyone would have died?) if he escaped. And for a while, MIB's tactic was to kill all of the candidates so he could escape the island. So for a while I thought, well, he's some creature filled with evil and special powers (smoke monster and all that), and if he escapes he'll wreak havoc on the world. But after he turned off the light on the island, he was clearly just a regular person because he could be hurt and killed, just like a regular person. So what kind of bad thing would have happened if he escaped? Just sayin'....
If the light in the center of the island goes out, everyone dies. So, even though MIB was made mortal and powerless, it all ends badly anyway.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #337
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Three of your last five posts constitute about the best writing I have seen about the series. You were a good audience.


Mostman has one of the best grasps of what the whole thing was about.

It boggles the mind to see so many hung up on not finding out the "mysteries of the island". As the writers stated in the clip show this was intended to be a character study. Those who say the first five seasons didn't matter seem to have forgotten all the flashback stories that developed the characters histories which determined how they related to each other. The "magic" island was a way to throw all these people together and give them a chance to "fix" their flaws.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:56 AM   #338
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They kidnapped Clair to give her medicines to help her carry Aaron to term. Because all of the other women who conceived on the island miscarried, and subsequently died. (I think that was revealed by Juliet at one point).
Claire didn't conceive on the island..

I have been pissed all season because most of the Dharma plotlines didn't matter this year.. but then I realized that they really never mattered at all. Kind of like the people sitting in the hatch sending things out the tube. They thought they were important, but really weren't..

And I'm fine with it.. the season finale was excellent and once I realized the mysteries I cared about didn't really matter, it was much more enjoyable.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:01 AM   #339
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A 2 1/2 hour clip show? Really?!

But seriously, great show, great season, great series.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:02 AM   #340
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So why did Jack have a son with Juliet in the sideways? What was the point of that?

I don't like how they made the series finale all about the stuff that happened this season. It's like the previous 5 seasons didn't even matter.
I thought for a while the teenage boy was Arron. I guess I was wrong.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:03 AM   #341
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So Charles Widmore... what was his deal?

He wanted to harness the 'power' of the light on the island? That's what drew people to the island over and over again (for all we known, even before Jacob & MIB, since their adopted mother was already a caretaker of it 150 years ago).

Was that Widmore's plan? Was he 'evil'? Or was he truly trying to help the others?
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:03 AM   #342
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As for the Man In Black, I would have liked to have found out exactly what would have happened to everyone if he had escaped from the island. Supposedly it would have been very bad for the world (everyone would have died?) if he escaped. And for a while, MIB's tactic was to kill all of the candidates so he could escape the island. So for a while I thought, well, he's some creature filled with evil and special powers (smoke monster and all that), and if he escapes he'll wreak havoc on the world. But after he turned off the light on the island, he was clearly just a regular person because he could be hurt and killed, just like a regular person. So what kind of bad thing would have happened if he escaped? Just sayin'....
The people on the island didn't know that by uncorking the power that the MIB would become "normal." They only found that out by trying it. The MIB didn't even know that. And I'm assuming had the MIB not been killed and the power re-corked, he would have gained his powers back.

So based on what they (Jack and the others) had seen Smokey do, and Jacob's warning, they were afraid of letting a super-powered serial killer who can't be killed loose on the world. Even if he had lost his powers, he's a totally malevolent being who doesn't care a bit about killing others to achieve what he wants to achieve.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:04 AM   #343
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3. Stained glass window in the church was interesting. A cross, crescent, Start of David, yin/yang, ... and a donkey wheel.
Probably the 8-spoked dharma wheel (Tibet):


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Old 05-24-2010, 08:05 AM   #344
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So Charles Widmore... what was his deal?

He wanted to harness the 'power' of the light on the island? That's what drew people to the island over and over again (for all we known, even before Jacob & MIB, since their adopted mother was already a caretaker of it 150 years ago).

Was that Widmore's plan? Was he 'evil'? Or was he truly trying to help the others?
Not 150 years. Try 2,000 years.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:07 AM   #345
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Hurley says to Ben, "You were a great #2," and he wasn't calling him a piece of sh-t. Ben says to Hurley, "You were a great #1." They both remembered their time protecting the Island.
I wish the actors had said their lines a little better/clearer...at the time, I THOUGHT Hugo said "were" but could not be sure that it was "are"...I listened to it about 5 times and could not tell; which makes a huge difference, of course, in understanding what was going on...
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:09 AM   #346
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Claire didn't conceive on the island..
Right, I know that. I see the way I wrote that implied she had. But my point still stands... the others were still afraid of her miscarrying because of all of the other birthing failures on the Island, so they kidnapped her to make sure she got the meds to help her carry to term.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:11 AM   #347
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It boggles the mind to see so many hung up on not finding out the "mysteries of the island". As the writers stated in the clip show this was intended to be a character study. Those who say the first five seasons didn't matter seem to have forgotten all the flashback stories that developed the characters histories which determined how they related to each other. The "magic" island was a way to throw all these people together and give them a chance to "fix" their flaws.
I agree, the characters were the important part of the story, and after reading a bunch of the comments here, I started thinking about it a story told while sitting around the campfire or a bedtime story told one night at a time for 1001 nights. Made up and things tossed in for fun, but the characters and how they came to love and interact and respect and hate each other was gave the story strength.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #348
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Wow 346 posts since last night!! I don't have much to say other than the ending was OK and since it was not "linear" I am a little confused.

Jack was not the last to die just the last to "come around" on them being in purgatory? So they needed Desmond "the constant" and Hurley to get everyone to "see" since everyone was dead now and they could move on? I just really want to know who was the last to die. Did Desmond who came back to the Island with Widmore and thrown into the well know that there was a sideways world waiting to be resolved?
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:16 AM   #349
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Put me down in the "loved it" camp.

One aspect of the alt-timeline not being a "real" timeline that makes me happy, is it means "Whatever happened, happened" was true all along. I loved that aspect of the show during season 5 (yay! an internally consistent time travel story!) and was slightly disappointed when it seemed the plan to blow the bomb and reset the timeline "worked' (sort of). Now, finding out that it truly didn't work at all, and Faraday was right all along (at least until he started to doubt his own theory), is a personally satisfying reveal, completely aside from the greater limbo/purgatory aspects of it all. Which I also loved.

Bravo, Carlton and Damon. This could go down as my favorite show ever.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:17 AM   #350
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Ok so one quick question....was there supposed to be meaning to the end credits showing the deserted island showing just plane wreckage, or was it just a simple.."this is where it all began" time montage(sp)??
Some are speculating that the showing of the wreckage is proof-positive that they all died upon the initial crash. This is wrong. I clearly saw evidence of lean-to's, tarps, and other makeshift constructs adjacent to the plain wreckage.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:17 AM   #351
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When Det. Ford first comes to Sun's room in the hospital (so, no-one is complaining that a seemingly indigent GSW who doesn't speak English gets put in a private room? ) and says "I'm sorry..." did anyone else think he intentionally make it sound like "I'm Sawyer ..."?
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:18 AM   #352
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I just really want to know who was the last to die.
I don't think it's important to know who was the last to die, because I think the implication was that most of the characters lived out their natural lives and died presumably many years later.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:20 AM   #353
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So Charles Widmore... what was his deal?

He wanted to harness the 'power' of the light on the island? That's what drew people to the island over and over again (for all we known, even before Jacob & MIB, since their adopted mother was already a caretaker of it 150 years ago).

Was that Widmore's plan? Was he 'evil'? Or was he truly trying to help the others?
I always thought his deal was the quest for the fountain of youth...both to himself and to increase his fortune (as in sell access to it)...but that's just an assumption on my part, I don't have any evidence...
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:23 AM   #354
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I'll have to catch up on this thread later... overall I was satisfied with the finale, I was most moved by the reunions before the ending.

The only thing I really had a problem with (and it's bugged me all season), is the idea that they'd be able to fly the plane off the island. But the good far outweighed the bad.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:27 AM   #355
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I'm not sure Ben ever made it to heaven.
I think Ben was afraid God would punch him in the face 4 or 5 times like everybody else on the show.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:28 AM   #356
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I think Ben was afraid God would punch him in the face 4 or 5 times like everybody else on the show.
This made me laugh out loud. Thanks!
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:28 AM   #357
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My biggest unanswered peeve:

1)Why and how were there still food drops by Dharma?
To keep Hurley fat. It's as simple as that. The writers realized the same thing that everyone else did in the early episodes - the guy who plays Hurley is fat and he's not going to get thinner, so they needed to explain how he could stay fat living on the island. The solution was to drop jars of peanut butter on the island. So they asked themselves why someone would be dropping peanut butter on the island and they made up the Dharma Initiative.

I'm convinced that the entire series was written using this method. Inadvertently dig a hole and invent a plot device to fill it.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:32 AM   #358
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Wow 346 posts since last night!! I don't have much to say other than the ending was OK and since it was not "linear" I am a little confused.

Jack was not the last to die just the last to "come around" on them being in purgatory? So they needed Desmond "the constant" and Hurley to get everyone to "see" since everyone was dead now and they could move on? I just really want to know who was the last to die. Did Desmond who came back to the Island with Widmore and thrown into the well know that there was a sideways world waiting to be resolved?
I am assuming that Hurley (and maybe Ben) was the last to die. Since he drank the water and became like Jack/Jacob/"Mother" and whoever else protected the island before that, I am assuming he ceased to age and could have lived hundreds of years before finding his replacement and meeting up with everyone else at the church. I assume everyone else lived a normal life-span since they didn't drink the water to become the island's protector.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:37 AM   #359
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I disagree here. If you go back to the first few seasons, which I'd admit was before the characters were developed, the island WAS the story. Everything that we loved about lost was wrapped up in the island's story. Then, over time, the characters became well developed and their stories took focus. But that doesn't mean that the island's story, or the need to tell it, went away.

The writers spent most of this season creating, and then explaining, a new story which was did little to advance the story from the first 5 seasons. This was my disappointment - so much time was spent on this new story that could have been spent on answering the original story, that when these questions remained unanswered one feels cheated.

So in short, the feeling of fulfillment I have comes from the answering of this season's side story. The feeling of disappointment comes from the failure to answer the story of the first 5 seasons.
Without reading the ton of messages in this thread yet, I like the ending but I kind of agree with your last point (but not that the show was about the island, it was about the people). I never liked the Jacob/MiB story and I felt they could have come to the same ending sticking with the original battles. Others vs. Losties, Dharma vs. Others, and worked toward them finding the light and explaining the mysteries that way. But they didn't and that's ok.

So, did we ever find out EXACTLY who Whidmore was? Was he a candidate that Ben kicked off the island? And Dharma, I guess they just discovered the island somehow (Whidmore again?) and wanted to harness it's powers. I believe the bomb went off, threw them to the current future. I think when people died, like Jack, it's when discovered their past in purgatory. It's why Jack didn't get it until the end.

Other thoughts:

Anyone else feel the final battle between Jack and Locke had a Obi-Wan vs. Anikan Skywalker feel to it?

So the folks who didn't come, they were still alive? I thought one of the theories is they would not all come together until all of them died.

Michael/Walt....I just think there was a contract issue and that's why they weren't part of the ending. I sorta remember they didn't leave on good terms.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:37 AM   #360
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First Post from a lurker...

Hi all... I've been reading the TC boards and the Lost threads since the beginning, I just don't appear to have ever posted re: Lost before (looking at my posts - I can't really believe it, but that's what I see).

I went to sleep last night after JKL not sure what I felt about the finale, but when I woke up, JK's theory really brought me to my own underastanding.

I have read some of this thread, but not all, but here is my understanding of what went on in these 6 seasons.

1. Oceanic 815 really did crash on the Island... all of the on-island, and 3 years of off-island stuff really did happen. Jack really did take over from Jacob, and with Desmond's (and Kate's) help he did defeat Smokey and put the plug back in to save the island. All of that was real.

2. This season's flash sideways was taking place in some sort of limbo that Jack inhabited until he was ready to move on to his place in the afterlife. BUT what we are seeing in the flash sideways is Jack's limbo. Just as there is no real concept of time in the FSW, there's no one reality in the FSW - it is what each of them makes of it.

3. I believe that most of the other losties we see in the Flash sideways have already moved on in their own realities... some probably did so very quickly and easily in their lives (Sun and Jin I believe probably moved on together very easily since they were reunited at their deaths and were together). But others may have been stuck for a long time in their own limbo after their death.

4. Desmond is the "Constant" and he still retains a certain ability to transcend space/time throughout all of this. Whatever Desmond is, it is beyond the rest of the people. But at the end of the real island timeline that we've seen, Desmond is going to live, and Hurley/Ben send him back home to be with Penny/little Charlie. He lives the rest of his natural life out and then once in the afterlife still has a role as a catalyst... helping to facilitate the moving on by other people once they are ready.

5. I think that the "remembering" each of our familiar people experiences is their eternal "soul", or "essence" for lack of a better term, being brought fully conscious into Jack's limbo - because it is necessary for Jack to deal with his own experience in order to move on and through Desmond's actions, they are made aware that Jack is approaching the time when he will be ready - they are there to help him once he is ready.

6. I think David doesn't really exist and never did exist. He's a construct of Jack's mind - a way for Jack to work through the issues with his father that he never could work through in life. The interactions we saw between Jack and David this season were critical to Jack finally being able to come to terms with his own feelings about his relationship with his father - and lay them to rest. At that point, Jack was ready to move on from his limbo.

7. We don't know how long this could have taken Jack in terms of earthly timeline - it may have been a year, 10 years or a thousand years. As implied by the Hurley/Ben interaction outside of the church it was at least quite a while since Hugo was a good leader in the past tense. Obviously from Kate's reaction, it has taken quite a while for Jack to be ready.

8. This is Jack's moving on experience... but in some way it is a reality that is still shared. Once Ben was brought into this reality, he could choose to stay for a while there - in order to really get to know Danielle and spend time with Alex. Similarly, Eloise and Daniel can stay there (along with Charlotte) - Daniel may not be ready to move on until something else happens.

So that's the big mythology related things and to me, it sums up for me the whole series in an emotionally satisfying way. From an intellectual standpoint, there are parts of it that won't ever work but it is fiction/fantasy and it is faith related, so I'm okay with that.

As for some of the "mysteries" of the island, there were a few realizations that I came to last night.

1. Jacob was a grade-A jerk. Yes he had this thrust upon him, and he claimed to want to give each of them a choice, but some choice and method he had, huh?

2. I should have really realized this, back in Ab Aeterno, but with one little reference to Captain Hanso of the Black Rock, in retrospect, that answered all the questions for me satisfactorily about the Dharma Initiative. It was financed by the Hanso foundation - a cover organization for Jacob to keep funnelling potential replacement candidates to the island. To me it even explains the airdrops of supplies in 2004/2005 from the Dharma initiative - Jacob calls for supplies when he needs them in order to help new arrivals on the island.

3. Jacob made up the rules of the game. Clearly the guardian of the light has a lot of sway in the setting of the rules. Jacob set them as he saw fit - but Hugo could change them.

I've got a lot more, but this is way longer than I originally intended.

The more I think about it, the more satisfied I am with the resolution. It's not Six Feet Under finale, but that wouldn't ring true for Lost.

A+ on the finale, the final season in retrospect and the series as a whole.
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