Class Action Lawsuit Tivo Premiere

tanoanian · 05-15-2010, 07:16 AM

I'm surprised tivo hasn't been sued yet over all the lockups and reboots. Maybe that's what it's going to take to get this thing working?

orangeboy · 05-15-2010, 07:24 AM

Maybe because no one has been injured due to a lockup or reboot? Now if a number of units caught fire/exploded causing damages and/or injuries, a class action suit may be appropriate. I haven't heard about such occurrences though...

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cl...on-lawsuit.htm

crxssi · 05-15-2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangeboy

Maybe because no one has been injured due to a lockup or reboot? Now if a number of units caught fire/exploded causing damages and/or injuries, a class action suit may be appropriate.

You don't have to have physical injuries to create a class action lawsuit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action

MikeTerryP · 05-15-2010, 08:34 AM

So, the solution to dissatisfaction with the Premiere is not to send it back for a refund but to file a class action lawsuit instead? Interesting train of thought.

cranbers · 05-15-2010, 08:54 AM

Wow, that will certainly get someone's attention. I think its funny someone thought you can only file this if someone gets hurt.

If tivo doesn't offer a replacement or a software fix for their f'd up boxes, then sure. But in this world where you can put out firmware updates over the internet, companies actually bank on we will fix it later. Microsoft did this with vista, Pioneer did it with the Avic f series all in one car stereo's. Now tivo is doing it with the premiere, it seems to be standard practice now days. Even our LCD Tv's do this, welcome to the world of firmware/ software updates and patches. You weren't able to do that before the internet and computer technology. If something was f'd up, it was just that forever. Remember gaming consoles before patches for games?

Its standard now and im sure it will only get worse. Put out a product before its ready, just to set the market (put it out in time when ever one else does, even if its not done, put out updates to fix the issues, eventually. As long as making money beats out the flak, its worth it.

But when you are a small company with ONE product, like tivo. You can't do this to yourself, Tivo has got some serious PR issues now, anyone who researches the premiere is going to think its a dog, even in 6 months or a year when all issues have been fixed. The day of the internet, people can communicate these things like we are now.

Thuye · 05-15-2010, 09:19 AM

If there is litigation, please sign me up!

MikeMar · 05-15-2010, 09:23 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious!!!

I'm not satisfied w/ my product, let's sue!

can I do that for a movie I don't like too?

magnus · 05-15-2010, 09:29 AM

I agree. Let's sue them. My dog even ate the remote for this box too. It's about time we make Tivo pay for their insolence.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=422869

Videodrome · 05-15-2010, 09:35 AM

Its called express warrantee , a product must proform as advertised. I dont think Tivo premiere is.

RichB · 05-15-2010, 09:46 AM

TiVo's issues are best solved with engineers not lawyers.

That cuts both ways of course.

- Rich

cica · 05-15-2010, 10:35 AM

While Tivo did release this before it was ready, the interaction between the various services necessitates the reliance on software/firmware updates. If Netflix slightly alters its code after the Tivo software is released, then Tivo might have to make changes to address bugs introduced by third parties. Back in the good ol' days, the gaming consoles were a completely closed system, and if proper QA was performed, then it would run for the life of the console. The internet has made software platforms much more fluid and firmware updates are now commonplace.

aaronwt · 05-15-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanoanian

I'm surprised tivo hasn't been sued yet over all the lockups and reboots. Maybe that's what it's going to take to get this thing working?

What lockups and reboots? My seven Premieres are fine.

smbaker · 05-15-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangeboy

Maybe because no one has been injured due to a lockup or reboot? Now if a number of units caught fire/exploded causing damages and/or injuries, a class action suit may be appropriate. I haven't heard about such occurrences though...

I have a notice sitting here that I'm due benefits from a class-action lawsuit reward because the manufacturer of my lawnmower misrepresented the horsepower of the engine. They most certainly can be filed even if no 'physical' injury has been sustained by the victim.

That being said, I really don't see anything lawsuit-worthy. It would be one thing if Tivo misrepresented the size of the hard drive, or the type of CPU installed, or the amount of RAM. But that's not the case... If the product simply doesn't work right then you have an available remedy: send it back. I could see this evolving into a grey area if Tivo promises the device will eventually be fixed and never delivers the software patch, but we're not there yet.

Our system is still based on the principal of 'let the buyer beware' with only a dash of 'sue the hell out of everyone you can' mixed in.

Best thing you can do is to vote with your wallet. That's what I've been doing. I've held back on my purchasing until I see more proof the product is what I want and considering the alternatives (i.e. Moxi).

RichB · 05-15-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

What lockups and reboots? My seven Premieres are fine.

If you do not have the problem, it does not exist.

In all likelihood, if you placed your in an different configuration and environment they would have similar problems.

Likewise, if you bought 100 TiVos and put them into your house would it change the failures that others experience and they all worked what does it prove? Would 100 TiVo's do the trick

I suppose your point is that TiVo's are not completely broken. I think we got it.

- Rich

magnus · 05-15-2010, 12:38 PM

Even so.... he may not be having the problem. Who the hell cares.... the point is that the reboot/lockup is not the end of the world. Tivo is working to fix the issues and all this talk about class action lawsuits is completely stupid.

Tivo is working on fixes and maybe instead of bitching about it then maybe explaining the different scenarios that cause the reboot/lockup would be helpful to get it fixed.

RichB · 05-15-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnus

Even so.... he may not be having the problem. Who the hell cares.... the point is that the reboot/lockup is not the end of the world. Tivo is working to fix the issues and all this talk about class action lawsuits is completely stupid.

Tivo is working on fixes and maybe instead of bitching about it then maybe explaining the different scenarios that cause the reboot/lockup would be helpful to get it fixed.

Agreed. Engineering and analysis is need not lawyers.
It might be worthwhile for the lockup folks to create a thread to describe their configuration and look for similarities.

Cablecards and Signal strength used to be contributing factors in the HD line.

- Rich

dianebrat · 05-15-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMar

HAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious!!!

I'm not satisfied w/ my product, let's sue!

can I do that for a movie I don't like too?

I think we should expand it to posts on TCF we don't like.. sue, sue, sue!

aaronwt · 05-15-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB

If you do not have the problem, it does not exist.

In all likelihood, if you placed your in an different configuration and environment they would have similar problems.

Likewise, if you bought 100 TiVos and put them into your house would it change the failures that others experience and they all worked what does it prove? Would 100 TiVo's do the trick

I suppose your point is that TiVo's are not completely broken. I think we got it.

- Rich

They are in different environments and configurations. The only constant is HDMI being used and also a UPS.
Otherwise multiple TVs are in use, multiple switches and receivers and then two also go directly to TVs.

They were also all made in January, but between the 10th and the end of the month. So they all aren't from the same batch either.

chrispitude · 05-15-2010, 03:02 PM

Let's spend their money on lawyers, that will really solve the problem.

RichB · 05-15-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

They are in different environments and configurations. The only constant is HDMI being used and also a UPS.
Otherwise multiple TVs are in use, multiple switches and receivers and then two also go directly to TVs.

They were also all made in January, but between the 10th and the end of the month. So they all aren't from the same batch either.

You use the same service and their Cablecards.

I think you have proved it works at your house which in no way disproves or invalidates anyone else's experience.

I gave my mother-in-law a TiVo HD and went down to Florida to install it with her new FIOS service (about a 2 years ago). It would hang and reboot. FIOS was using S-Cards. They came in cut the signal, changed cards. Still it would hang and reboot. She sent it to me and I have not had any problems with it. It has worked with Comcast S-Cards, M-Cards, and now with FIOS M-Cards.
There have been many software updates as well. Even programs recorded in FL would play fine here in MA.

So it did not work in FL but worked fine in MA.
Does that prove that it must have working fine in Florida?

- Rich

aaronwt · 05-15-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB

You use the same service and their Cablecards.

I think you have proved it works at your house which in no way disproves or invalidates anyone else's experience.

I gave my mother-in-law a TiVo HD and went down to Florida to install it with her new FIOS service (about a 2 years ago). It would hang and reboot. FIOS was using S-Cards. They came in cut the signal, changed cards. Still it would hang and reboot. She sent it to me and I have not had any problems with it. It has worked with Comcast S-Cards, M-Cards, and now with FIOS M-Cards.
There have been many software updates as well. Even programs recorded in FL would play fine here in MA.

So it did not work in FL but worked fine in MA.
Does that prove that it must have working fine in Florida?

- Rich

No they do not all have the same service. Two Premieres are OTA only, two Premieres are FiOS only, and three are FiOS and OTA.

As far as Florida. My first guess would be a power issue. Where I live I get voltage spikes and brownouts on a daily basis. If I did not have all my electronics on UPSs, I would probably have issues with some of them. I've certainly lost some light bulbs to them. And I know some neighbors who have had several DVRs from Comcast and FiOS die from the voltage spikes/brownouts. I know two that got a UPS for their DVRs, and they had no more problems after that.

Power problems can cause a host of issues.

janry · 05-15-2010, 03:42 PM

I'm not interested in making any lawyers any richer.

brianric · 05-15-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB

You use the same service and their Cablecards.

I think you have proved it works at your house which in no way disproves or invalidates anyone else's experience.

I gave my mother-in-law a TiVo HD and went down to Florida to install it with her new FIOS service (about a 2 years ago). It would hang and reboot. FIOS was using S-Cards. They came in cut the signal, changed cards. Still it would hang and reboot. She sent it to me and I have not had any problems with it. It has worked with Comcast S-Cards, M-Cards, and now with FIOS M-Cards.
There have been many software updates as well. Even programs recorded in FL would play fine here in MA.

So it did not work in FL but worked fine in MA.
Does that prove that it must have working fine in Florida?

- Rich

Sue Florida.

tanoanian · 05-15-2010, 05:03 PM

Panasonic is in the midst of a class action lawsuit because of the rising black levels in their plasma tvs. It's not much of a stretch for tivo to be sued over fixing their buggy software.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462551-1.html

crxssi · 05-15-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

They are in different environments and configurations. The only constant is HDMI being used and also a UPS.
Otherwise multiple TVs are in use, multiple switches and receivers and then two also go directly to TVs. They were also all made in January, but between the 10th and the end of the month. So they all aren't from the same batch either.

But they are all in use on the same signal inputs/cable system. They probably all have identical cable cards also. They are also in use by the same (or similar) people, so the same set of features are probably used and not used (and configured similarly).

If anything, your experiences probably help to show that the reboot/freeze problems are more related to the service provider.

crxssi · 05-15-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

No they do not all have the same service. Two Premieres are OTA only, two Premieres are FiOS only, and three are FiOS and OTA.

You are still using the same provider. Throwing in OTA in the mix doesn't mean much, since I haven't noticed a pattern of complaints relating to people that are OTA only.

Quote:

Power problems can cause a host of issues.

Agreed, that is why all my electronics (including my TV, TiVo, computer, network router, and cable modem) are on a UPS.

This is all a matter of collecting information about people who have crashing/freezing problems. It is unfortunate that there doesn't appear to be such effort really being done by the community nor TiVo. What provider? What brand cable card? What cable company? UPS? Type of remote? Time/date? SN? Type of AV connection? Model of TV? Model of amp (if any)? Output setting? Using show transfer? Tuner adapter in use? Channel lineup selected? HDUI or SDUI? Signal level reported by the TiVo? Ambient air temp? Physical location of unit? What software rev level? Etc.

Speculation without enough data is poor generalization. At this point all we really can say is that a lot of people are having freeze/lockup/reboot problems. And it seems like more people do than to not, based on monitoring these forums. But even that last generalization is hard to support, since more people are likely to report problems than those without- so it is not a random sample.

deandashl · 05-15-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

What lockups and reboots? My seven Premieres are fine.

That's really nothing to brag about.

Might need to get out of the house a little more.

RichB · 05-15-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

No they do not all have the same service. Two Premieres are OTA only, two Premieres are FiOS only, and three are FiOS and OTA.

As far as Florida. My first guess would be a power issue. Where I live I get voltage spikes and brownouts on a daily basis. If I did not have all my electronics on UPSs, I would probably have issues with some of them. I've certainly lost some light bulbs to them. And I know some neighbors who have had several DVRs from Comcast and FiOS die from the voltage spikes/brownouts. I know two that got a UPS for their DVRs, and they had no more problems after that.

Power problems can cause a host of issues.

If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

- Rich

aaronwt · 05-15-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandashl

That's really nothing to brag about.

Might need to get out of the house a little more.

What has seven Premieres got to do with getting out of the house? I've been time shifting my TV watching since 1984. I'm certainly not about to start watching TV in realtime in 2010. Every TV needs at least one DVR. I'm not about to waste 20 minutes of every hour watching commercials.

It sounds like you need to quit wasting time if you are watching TV in

reatime. Personally my time is too valuable to waste doing that. That's 20 more minutes every hour you could be outside instead of watching commericals.

aaronwt · 05-15-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB

If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

- Rich

The problemn with that statemnet is that power issues do cause alot of problems with electronic devices. This is certainly nothing new. Many times I've seen problems eliminated with peoples devices just by supplying clean power to it.

It's a quick and easy solution to try to see if it solves any issues. If not then move on with the trouble shooting. Of course you should start with the cabling and work your way from there.