Netflix still unstable on my S3 ...

gweempose · 05-03-2010, 11:01 AM

I have been having major issues with Netflix for a long time on one of my S3s. Recently, I decided that the problem may have had to do with a failing external drive, so I got rid of the external drive and even replaced the internal drive with a brand new one. Sadly, Netflix is no better. Whenever I hit pause or attempt to back out of the stream, it almost always causes the S3 to reboot. The strange thing is that I don't have this problem on my other S3, either of my THDs, or my Premiere. Any thoughts?

slowbiscuit · 05-03-2010, 11:22 AM

Flaky network connection?

gweempose · 05-03-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowbiscuit

Flaky network connection?

I suppose that's possible, although my Vudu box which is connected to the same switch works fine. Just to be scientific, I'm going to swap the S3 and the Premiere when I get a chance to see if it makes a difference.

dlfl · 05-03-2010, 11:25 AM

My first thought was: I wish I could justify spending as much money on TiVo's as you have

, but actually given the questionable reliability of my one TiVo HD (On TWC with a Tuning Adapter) I'm not sure I would get more of them even if I could justify the expense.

Are all your TiVo's connected to your home network the same way? Hard-wired, or wireless? Have you tried swapping the "bad" one with one of the others?

ewilts · 05-03-2010, 01:56 PM

Netflix on S3 is unstable for many users - even those with good network connections. If Netflix is important to you, the S3 is not the answer. It's apparently not important to TiVo beyond being an advertised option.

Lockups requiring the user to pull the power plug are not uncommon - not everybody gets them but it's fatal for those that do. My wireless <$100 Roku box does a heck of lot better than my wired S3.

bkdtv · 05-03-2010, 02:42 PM

Network connection issues are responsible for many of the problems; any time your router or wireless connection stalls, the Netflix application will crash, or worse yet, your TiVo will reboot. The application is not able to gracefully recover in many (most?) cases.

The original TiVo Series3 also has an older MPEG4 / VC1 decoder that is not compatible with 100% of all Netflix encodes. The newer MPEG4 / VC1 decoders in the TiVo HD and Premiere do not exhibit that problem.

gweempose · 05-03-2010, 05:47 PM

So I swapped the boxes, and the S3 continues to crash. The Premiere, on the other hand, is working perfectly even though it is hooked up to the same port on the same switch with the same ethernet cable as the S3 was. Clearly, there is something wrong with the S3 hardware. I'm guessing that it's NIC is slightly out of spec. It works fine for MRV, but it just can't handle the Netflix stream. Unfortunately, I don't know where to go from here, as the unit is long out of warranty.

m.s · 05-04-2010, 06:37 AM

Tivo's Netflix implementation on the S3, quite simply, sucks. If Netflix were smart, they would not allow Tivo to distribute this or use their name, it really makes their service look bad.

On mine, playback will often get interrupted as the Tivo tries to buffer more content, and then it may alternate between standard and HD, sitting there for minutes at a time.

One of the most used features for TV, the ability for "instant replay," (going back ~10 seconds to catch something you might have missed), is simply useless. Hit the replay button on the remote, and wait 30 seconds or more as it buffers what was just played again from the Internet (the TiVo engineers obviously aren't smart enough to keep, say, the last minute of content around for this).

There is no good way to navigate to any particular point in the content.

After playing something on Netflix, I've found that my S3 may lock up (all front panel lights on, totally non-responsive) some random amount of time later, and can only be recovered by a power cycle. So, I may watch something one day, then find the TiVo locked up (with missed recordings) a couple of days later. If I simply don't use Netflix, I don't have this problem.

The Netflix client for the Nintendo Wii, OTOH, works wonderfully. Quick, responsive, good navigation controls. I've never had a problem with it pausing to buffer more content. You can even browse Netflix looking for things to watch, instead of having to use your PC to add them to the queue, as with the TiVo.

saluki · 05-04-2010, 11:20 AM

I really have to believe it is a router issue. I've been streaming Netflix to my s3 for approx 1 1/2 years and have had less than 5 crashes the entire time (which just dumped me back to the main Tivo menu, never a full lockup). I also stream to a Tivo HD, Xbox 360 and to an iPad, and have never had a crash on those devices.

the 2 tivos and Xbox are hardwired, iPad is WiFi (802n). Cable is WOW with 10kbps connection. Motorola router as well as Apple extreme base station and Netgear unmanaged switch are the devices on the network.

gweempose · 05-04-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saluki

I really have to believe it is a router issue.

Why do you think so, given that all my other TiVos, including another S3, are working fine?

segaily · 05-04-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.s

The Netflix client for the Nintendo Wii, OTOH, works wonderfully. Quick, responsive, good navigation controls. I've never had a problem with it pausing to buffer more content. You can even browse Netflix looking for things to watch, instead of having to use your PC to add them to the queue, as with the TiVo.

OK I have used both the Wii and S3 for netflix. Neither have a nice instant replay so I would not say it is fair to give the TiVo a hard time on that without saying the WII is the same. I will give you the fact the WII has a nicer interface for selecting movies and such. It also remembers what episode you left off on when watching a TV season. It does in fact work very well. It is also brand new compared to the TiVo implementation so I would expect it to be better. It is not however better in all areas. I find the Wii much more likely to have to rebuffer after a pause then the TiVo. The Wii also does not support HD. I have not used the Wii enough yet to comment on which is more stable. I have had issues now and then on both my S3 and HD. I would say my S3 is slightly less stable then the HD for netflix but would say they both work better then streaming shows off the network websites to my PC.

djwilso · 05-04-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by segaily

It [Wii Netflix] is also brand new compared to the TiVo implementation so I would expect it to be better.

I don't quite understand the logic behind stating that just because it is a newer implementation that it should somehow be better.

The Roku box has offered Netflix for longer than TiVo or the Wii and it does the job without crashing the box because the engineers working at Roku obviously have taken the time to properly test their code.

When Roku added the capability of streaming in HD, again there was no crashing of the box because obviously the time was taken to thoroughly test the firmware code.

A flaky network connection should not be able to crash the TiVo, and yet it does. It has been this way from Day 1 with TiVo's Netflix application. Why won't they devote the time to correct the errors in the code that allow these crashes to occur? Quality does not seem to be a priority.

m.s · 05-04-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by segaily

OK I have used both the Wii and S3 for netflix. Neither have a nice instant replay so I would not say it is fair to give the TiVo a hard time on that without saying the WII is the same.

The Wii interface presents a moveable thumb and shows scrolling key frames to choose from when navigating forward/reverse. The Tivo offers, uh, nothing. On the Tivo, when you press the "instant replay" on the remote, it seems to go back only slightly, it might only be a couple of seconds. Press "instant replay" 4 or 5 times, wait and wait, and see how far back it starts - it's completely useless, and nothing like the experience Tivo provides for TV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saluki

I really have to believe it is a router issue.

Uh, no. Any real issue with WiFi/routing would cause problems with other clients traversing the same network path. It might be the case (and possibly is) that the Tivo implementation is extremely poor and doesn't handle UDP streaming protocols well, and so is extremely sensitive to network delay/jitter/loss, but that's still a Tivo issue; blaming the network is misplaced.

dlfl · 05-04-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.s

Tivo's Netflix implementation on the S3, quite simply, sucks. If Netflix were smart, they would not allow Tivo to distribute this or use their name, it really makes their service look bad.
.......

I doubt Netflix is suffering much damage from their TiVo relationship, but who knows? It certainly appears, from my experience and what I've read on these forums, that the TiVo implementation is worse than average. I've had bouts of multiple reboots and other glitches although it's been working pretty well for me the last few months -- well enough that at $9/month it's a good deal, especially since we cycle DVD's thru the mail at about 2 per week too. I suspect a high percentage of TiVo users are in a similar situation. It is sad that some fraction of users have problems like yours for which the solution is not obvious.

Tonight TCM is featuring John Wayne movies. I've tried to watch Stage Coach and the Searchers via my cable and TiVo. Both movies have frequent pixelation breakups whether watched on the SD or HD TCM channels, which is not uncommon on the TCM channels for me. However both movies are Netflex Instant Watch choices and both played perfectly with quality at least as good as cable and no glitches -- The Searchers is even in what Netflix calls HD. I'm continually on the brink of dropping cable and using antenna OTA (which has excellent quality and no pixelation), plus Netflix and Amazon.

segaily · 05-05-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwilso

I don't quite understand the logic behind stating that just because it is a newer implementation that it should somehow be better.

The Roku box has offered Netflix for longer than TiVo or the Wii and it does the job without crashing the box because the engineers working at Roku obviously have taken the time to properly test their code.

When I said better I was not talking about stability. It was meant as more of a general statement. I expect newer products to offer more features or the same features with a lower cost. As I also said in my post I can not comment on the WII implementation stability yet.

I would also say comparing the date the products started offering netflix is also a bit unfair for calling one a newer product. You really have to compare when the hardware first shipped for both products.

I agree that TiVo deserves plenty of criticism for the stability issues. I just think beating them up for the lack of features compared to newer products is unfair. Well unless we are going to talk about the premier. Personally I think that shows very poor management. Either they failed to invest enough on the software team or hired the wrong people. If I had to guess I would say they have grossly understaffed software development. Under staffing might also explain the stability issues.

dlfl · 05-05-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by segaily

....... Either they failed to invest enough on the software team or hired the wrong people. If I had to guess I would say they have grossly understaffed software development. Under staffing might also explain the stability issues.

LOL ! In my experience I've yet to see a software team that wasn't underfunded and understaffed relative to what management expects of them. I bet this even applies to Microsoft! But maybe TiVo has been worse than average -- who knows?

BobCamp1 · 05-05-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by segaily

As I also said in my post I can not comment on the WII implementation stability yet.

I can -- it's stable. It has only crashed once, and that was after I was exiting Netflix to go back to the home screen.

segaily · 05-06-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobCamp1

I can -- it's stable. It has only crashed once, and that was after I was exiting Netflix to go back to the home screen.

Well I have no idea how much you have used the Wii for netflix since you got it but really still early to gives props for only one crash. It is still early enough that your one crash could be lucky or unlucky. My TiVo HD has not crashed with netflix in months. For that matter neither has my S3 though to be fair the S3 does not get much netflix use anymore. I do think my S3 is much less stable then my HD when it comes to netflix though my S3 is wireless and my HD is wired so a bit unfair to compare.

BobCamp1 · 05-07-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by segaily

Well I have no idea how much you have used the Wii for netflix since you got it but really still early to gives props for only one crash. It is still early enough that your one crash could be lucky or unlucky. My TiVo HD has not crashed with netflix in months. For that matter neither has my S3 though to be fair the S3 does not get much netflix use anymore. I do think my S3 is much less stable then my HD when it comes to netflix though my S3 is wireless and my HD is wired so a bit unfair to compare.

Mine is using 802.11b over 768/128k DSL. It takes a while to buffer it up (my slow Internet speed for now), so I don't use the rewind or FF functions much. It also doesn't have a keyword search function. But does have a "new releases" and genre search. It does tie directly into your Instant Queue, and does have a "similar to" search function which will, for example, find all the seasons for the TV show you just watched (as well as other related stuff). I usually just add stuff to the IQ on the PC first.

I use it all the time, and considering it was free, I am very pleased with it. I may get FIOS and a new router soon which will obviously speed things up a lot.

morac · 05-07-2010, 09:05 AM

Netflix on the S3 is one of those things that's either very good or very bad. When it's working it works well, but when it's not working it fails horribly (usually resulting in a lock up). Obviously the crash bug is something TiVo is unable to fix or it would be fixed by this point. I've used Netflix occasionally on my S3, but it's not something I'd do regularly, especially when the box is recording.

I do find it odd, that the Netflix app hasn't been updated since release. Even Roku has been updated to allow searching and queuing programs for later. TiVo users can search in the TiVo Search beta for S3/HD/Xl and directly on the Premiere, but that's a separate interface from the Netflix app.

ewilts · 05-07-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morac

Obviously the crash bug is something TiVo is unable to fix or it would be fixed by this point.

I believe you're confusing "unable" with "unwilling". There is no bug that can not be fixed if you have the willpower and the brainpower. I suspect that TiVo has the brainpower but not the willpower.

.../Ed

segaily · 05-07-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewilts

I believe you're confusing "unable" with "unwilling". There is no bug that can not be fixed if you have the willpower and the brainpower. I suspect that TiVo has the brainpower but not the willpower.

.../Ed

While I am inclined to think you are correct and that they are just unwilling to invested the needed resources to fix the issue that does not have to be true. If the issue is in the hardware it is possible there is no way to fix it. Remember the hardware shipped long before this feature was turned on so any issues with the hardware might not have been found in time to make hardware changes. For all we know they could have found the issue while making the netflix app and decided that the feature with the bug was better then not having the feature at all.

Patricko · 05-15-2010, 03:10 PM

I have 3 S3 boxes, 2 on gigabit Ethernet and one on a Tivo wifi G USB. I have FIOS. One of the hard wired S3s never gets a picture from Netflix but you can hear some audio while it buffers until it crashes and reboots the S3. The other 2 are perfect and have never crashed.

Any thoughts?

areeda · 05-21-2010, 10:20 PM

We have 2 Tivo HD and NetFlix is flaky on both. Sometimes it works fine other times there are various issues:

Hard lock up, only option is to unplug
I'll call it the soft lock up, if I go directly to the setup menu I can reboot with the remote
Weirdness. Background screen may be gray or may be last image from the show I was watching

To blame it on the network is tough. I've used my laptop on the same wireless further away from access point to watch the shows when I give up on Tivo.

I'll add my vote to bump this up on Tivo's priority list.

magnum68 · 05-21-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gweempose

I have been having major issues with Netflix for a long time on one of my S3s. Recently, I decided that the problem may have had to do with a failing external drive, so I got rid of the external drive and even replaced the internal drive with a brand new one. Sadly, Netflix is no better. Whenever I hit pause or attempt to back out of the stream, it almost always causes the S3 to reboot. The strange thing is that I don't have this problem on my other S3, either of my THDs, or my Premiere. Any thoughts?

Try connecting your S3 directly to your modem, bypassing your router, and see if it's still unstable.

pl1 · 05-22-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnum68

Try connecting your S3 directly to your modem, bypassing your router, and see if it's still unstable.

Better yet, get something else to watch Netflix streaming on. I've still never had a problem with my Samsung Blu-Ray player. Same network.

colin1497 · 05-22-2010, 09:22 AM

Interesting thread. I had really bad luck early when I was on DSL, SD streams would step down to a quality level I didn't want to watch (even after starting at higher quality, it seemed like the client would gradually step down any time it ran the buffer dry instead of pausing and using a bigger buffer), and HD streams would stutter continuously but never step down to SD. I locked it up several times and I wrote netflix off for the time being.

Now I have a decent cable connection and have had almost no problems with HD streaming. I'm a LITTLE marginal on bandwidth so I:

1) kill other potential intermittent bandwidth users in the house when I stream. Nothing like noticing that a PC just updated its virus scan software at the same time netflix had to buffer
2) immediately pause the stream at the beginning of the show/movie and let it completely fill its buffer before starting.

Doing these I've occasionally had it rebuffer (unfortunately I think that 7-10pm on weeknights I have lower than promised bandwidth from my cable provider) but (knock on wood) I haven't had a single lockup/reboot type of crash.

I DO really really wish they would let it buffer more. I think that if it could buffer more, most people could get past issues with inconsistent bandwidth to the Netflix servers. To me this is something that shouldn't be that hard to do...

gweempose · 05-22-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pl1

Better yet, get something else to watch Netflix streaming on ...

In addition to my TiVos, I also have a Wii and an HTPC. They both stream Netflix just fine. Unfortunately, neither of them will do HD.

magnum68 · 05-22-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gweempose

In addition to my TiVos, I also have a Wii and an HTPC. They both stream Netflix just fine. Unfortunately, neither of them will do HD.

Hi, did you try connecting your S3 straight to your modem?