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Old 03-24-2010, 06:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TiVoJerry View Post
Hello all,

...
SCSIRAID is correct that we put a fix in for the SDV pixelation issue. ...f[/IMG]


A few other things we fixed:
  • S2 units couldn't browse the recordings of an HD model that had a TA attached
  • Antenna stations with mismatched TVCT and PAT table entries have no video
  • Online scheduling not showing current Now Playing and To Do Lists
As TiVoMargret said, we expect to have this release completed by the end of the month (barring unforeseen circumstances, of course).
So I guess it's safe to assume that you still haven't fixed the bug that keeps the TiVoHD from reliably recording?....
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:00 PM   #62
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So I guess it's safe to assume that you still haven't fixed the bug that keeps the TiVoHD from reliably recording?....
Crud, I was really hoping to lose the gray screens...
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:23 PM   #63
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Hello all,

Yes, 11.0f is indeed a bug fix release and contains no new features. It is still in the Customer Support Ramp phase where we release to a fixed number of units and evaluate the impact to our call centers. Once that period ends, we usually determine that we can release to all boxes at full speed. If you don't have it now, you won't get it until the full rollout begins....and that doesn't take too long.

SCSIRAID is correct that we put a fix in for the SDV pixelation issue. He may not realize it, but he was actually an integral part of pushing TW to reach out to us with extremely technical results that allowed us to find a fix. This simply would not have been possible without his tireless effort working with TW. He is awesome.


A few other things we fixed:
  • S2 units couldn't browse the recordings of an HD model that had a TA attached
  • Antenna stations with mismatched TVCT and PAT table entries have no video
  • Online scheduling not showing current Now Playing and To Do Lists
As TiVoMargret said, we expect to have this release completed by the end of the month (barring unforeseen circumstances, of course).
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate that and am glad I could help. I also have to say that the guys I worked with at TWC were awesome. They spent a lot of time and effort on this one and delivered the goods. They taught me a lot too for which I am grateful. And of course... thanks for fixing it!!
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:21 PM   #64
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I'm glad they fixed the very technical bug that caused picture breakups. I'm worried that the more severe bug: blank recordings on SDV channels on occasion may still be unresolved. I'd rather have an actual recording with the breakups than nothing at all. I of course appreciate the fix to the picture break-ups and the effort and dedication it took to fix it.

How exactly should Tivo approach fixing the problem of blank recordings? In earlier posts, I suggested some kind of error condition testing and that the Tivo could do automatically what users have done to correct the problem, i.e., changing up then down to re-tune the desired station.

Since you suggested the precise method of addressing the very technical bug, what exactly is the best approach in fixing the tuning issues with SDV channels? Seems like this is the very last issue with Tuning Adapters to be addressed.

SCSIRAID or TivoJerry do you have any answers? How do we get this bug fixed? I used to feel pretty confident my Tivo would never miss a recording. However, it's about 75% reliable generally and under 50/50 if you record two SDV channels at the same time.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:37 PM   #65
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I'm glad they fixed the very technical bug that caused picture breakups. I'm worried that the more severe bug: blank recordings on SDV channels on occasion may still be unresolved. I'd rather have an actual recording with the breakups than nothing at all. I of course appreciate the fix to the picture break-ups and the effort and dedication it took to fix it.

How exactly should Tivo approach fixing the problem of blank recordings? In earlier posts, I suggested some kind of error condition testing and that the Tivo could do automatically what users have done to correct the problem, i.e., changing up then down to re-tune the desired station.

Since you suggested the precise method of addressing the very technical bug, what exactly is the best approach in fixing the tuning issues with SDV channels? Seems like this is the very last issue with Tuning Adapters to be addressed.

SCSIRAID or TivoJerry do you have any answers? How do we get this bug fixed? I used to feel pretty confident my Tivo would never miss a recording. However, it's about 75% reliable generally and under 50/50 if you record two SDV channels at the same time.
+1

The TiVo seems to know when a channel isn't tuned, i.e., has blank video. The failed recording shows up in the Recording History as not recorded because the video signal was not present. If nothing else, why not have the TiVo do the same thing you do manually to work around this, i.e., tune up 2 channels then back down ? It should try this at least twice, based on my experiences doing it manually. I suspect there might be a more direct way of re-tuning than channel-up/down but.....whatever works.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:08 PM   #66
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+1

The TiVo seems to know when a channel isn't tuned, i.e., has blank video. The failed recording shows up in the Recording History as not recorded because the video signal was not present. If nothing else, why not have the TiVo do the same thing you do manually to work around this, i.e., tune up 2 channels then back down ? It should try this at least twice, based on my experiences doing it manually. I suspect there might be a more direct way of re-tuning than channel-up/down but.....whatever works.
I will mention that being somewhat new to Tivo - the cable company DVRs do the same damn thing. It blows my mind. I know whenever I am writing code and try to get access to something, if I can't I wait a few ms and try again...

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Old 03-25-2010, 09:42 PM   #67
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I'm glad they fixed the very technical bug that caused picture breakups. I'm worried that the more severe bug: blank recordings on SDV channels on occasion may still be unresolved.
I guess since I'm apparently not running into the problem, I'm just curious... I don't remember reading about this problem. Just to clarify, you do mean something separate from the "blank analog channel" problem, right? (I'm just trying to make absolutely sure whether you're using SDV to mean "digital but not HD", or "any non-HD, including analog").
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:28 PM   #68
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I will mention that being somewhat new to Tivo - the cable company DVRs do the same damn thing. It blows my mind. I know whenever I am writing code and try to get access to something, if I can't I wait a few ms and try again...
I've complained ad nauseam in the past about the "joys" of outsourcing engineering to places like India. Do you really think that Apu in Bangalore really gives a s*** about the quality of the code he delivers? I don't. He'll never have the opportunity to use this product at his home. It's just a black box computer to him.

If it comes somewhat close to meeting the customer's spec ---> "ship it". Going the extra mile to "wait a few ms and try again" just isn't part of the equation.

I have no idea of whether this particular code was outsourced. One would hope that direct company employees would have a little better pride of ownership. Plus by being physically present in the same hemisphere it might be easier for testers at TiVo to make suggestions for improvements.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:38 PM   #69
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I guess since I'm apparently not running into the problem, I'm just curious... I don't remember reading about this problem. Just to clarify, you do mean something separate from the "blank analog channel" problem, right? (I'm just trying to make absolutely sure whether you're using SDV to mean "digital but not HD", or "any non-HD, including analog").
It's a problem tuning SDV channels and has been mentioned in posts many times. **Here** is a TiVo support page that discusses the manual workaround where you find:

Quote:
If your cable provider installed a Tuning Adapter for your TiVo HD, TiVo HD XL, or Series3 HD DVR, and you see a gray or black screen when you tune to a channel, you can restore the video by changing the channel and then tuning back
It only happens on SDV channels and I lose one or two recordings a week due to this problem.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #70
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It only happens on SDV channels and I lose one or two recordings a week due to this problem.
I experienced this very serious problem when I got my TA from Cablevision. It rendered the TiVo totally unreliable. My options were to leave the TA disconnected or cross my fingers and hope for the best.

I even had Cablevision come out and try to help troubleshoot, but the tech even complained that he had no training on how it worked.

It was the last straw I had trying to get TiVo and Cablevision to work nicely together. I finally switched to Fios (which is not an option for many) because it eliminated SDV.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:20 AM   #71
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It only happens on SDV channels and I lose one or two recordings a week due to this problem.
I will mention that since getting an return path amplifier, this does not happen to me anymore.

I got this guy:
http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/pr...php?pid=716497

If your return path level on the TA is pegged at max (like ~54db) then I would suggest trying one.

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Old 03-26-2010, 10:00 AM   #72
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I will mention that since getting an return path amplifier, this does not happen to me anymore.

I got this guy:
http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/pr...php?pid=716497

If your return path level on the TA is pegged at max (like ~54db) then I would suggest trying one.

xnappo
And where exactly in the coax chain is this thing installed?

Do you have multiple TAs (and multiple return path amplifiers), or can one amp handle all TAs from the demarc, e.g., can this be installed at the main entry point for the coax?

If not, does it go between the (each) tuning adapter and Tivo, or between the (each) TA and the wall outlet?

Since this is a solution that worked for you, add some more information so others can duplicate.

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Old 03-26-2010, 10:18 AM   #73
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I just noticed the version went from d to f. I guess we skipped e
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:57 AM   #74
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It's a problem tuning SDV channels and has been mentioned in posts many times. **Here** is a TiVo support page that discusses the manual workaround where you find:
That sounds like the TA simply stops talking to the headend so the headend thinks no one is watching the channel and shuts it off. Switching the channels back and forth triggers the TiVo to tell the TA to tune the channel again.

That sounds like a disconnect somewhere in the TiVo to TA communication. What's supposed to happen when the TiVo goes to record something is that the TiVo tells the TA it wants to tune channel X for a recording. TA tells the headend which "turns on" the channel on a specific frequency and tells the TA. The TA then tells the TiVo which tunes the channel on the frequency.

Periodically the headend will ask the TA if the channel is still needed. The TA should ask the TiVo. If there's no recording in progress, then the TiVo should put up a "are you still watching" prompt. If there is a recording, then the TiVo should reply to the TA that it's still recording. The TA should then tell the headend that the channel is still being used. Some part of that mechanism is broken so the headend simply turns the channel off (hence the grey/black screen). It could be a headend, TA or TiVo problem. Since this appears to not affect the majority of TA users, my guess is that it is either a headend or TA problem.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #75
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That sounds like the TA simply stops talking to the headend so the headend thinks no one is watching the channel and shuts it off. Switching the channels back and forth triggers the TiVo to tell the TA to tune the channel again.
........
But this happens when you first try to tune a channel.....

(Or when TiVo first tries to tune it to start a recording.)

It could be as simple as a timeout that needs to be increased in either the TiVo or TA software interface.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:37 AM   #76
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But this happens when you first try to tune a channel.....

(Or when TiVo first tries to tune it to start a recording.)

It could be as simple as a timeout that needs to be increased in either the TiVo or TA software interface.
When you have a recording loss... do you also have an entry in the recording log stating that it wasnt recorded because the 'video signal was not available'? I see those too but not to the degree that you mention. The downstairs TiVo records a lot of the same shows as my upstairs one. I have found situations where the show DID record on one TiVo but not on the other. This says that its not a lack of SDV slots since it should impact both TiVo's. Ive also caught it redhanded (recording in progress with black screen) and found that several of the 'lock' items in DVR Diags that should have been 'YES' are 'NO' which strongly suggests that its a tuning problem. Now whether the TA gave TiVo bad info or TiVo failed in its tuning of the program... I dont know. If TiVo wants to loan me a USB analyzer, I will gladly birddog this one

It would seem that TiVo could help the situation greatly if they would detect the 'no's' in the locks and simply time out and retune the channel.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:48 AM   #77
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I just noticed the version went from d to f. I guess we skipped e
I could be mistaken, but I'm guessing SW version 11.0e was a Beta-test version that wasn't released to the general public.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:03 PM   #78
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When you have a recording loss... do you also have an entry in the recording log stating that it wasnt recorded because the 'video signal was not available'? I see those too but not to the degree that you mention. The downstairs TiVo records a lot of the same shows as my upstairs one. I have found situations where the show DID record on one TiVo but not on the other. This says that its not a lack of SDV slots since it should impact both TiVo's. Ive also caught it redhanded (recording in progress with black screen) and found that several of the 'lock' items in DVR Diags that should have been 'YES' are 'NO' which strongly suggests that its a tuning problem. Now whether the TA gave TiVo bad info or TiVo failed in its tuning of the program... I dont know. If TiVo wants to loan me a USB analyzer, I will gladly birddog this one

It would seem that TiVo could help the situation greatly if they would detect the 'no's' in the locks and simply time out and retune the channel.
I agree.

My experience matches yours. Usually the Recording History says it didn't record because no video signal was present, but I've also had it record 3 hours of blank video. I haven't looked at the lock items in such a case but I bet one or more would be not locked.

Are you still seeing this with 11.0f ? I'm guessing it wasn't fixed.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #79
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I agree.

My experience matches yours. Usually the Recording History says it didn't record because no video signal was present, but I've also had it record 3 hours of blank video. I haven't looked at the lock items in such a case but I bet one or more would be not locked.

Are you still seeing this with 11.0f ? I'm guessing it wasn't fixed.
My THD hasnt had 11.0f long enough to really tell... and its my wife's unit and she may not have noticed. I also noticed on the generally released code that usually, a failed recording gets put back in the to do list so it eventually does get recorded if it plays again. I do my network TV stuff OTA and have never seen it OTA.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #80
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Thanks Jerry, I appreciate that and am glad I could help. I also have to say that the guys I worked with at TWC were awesome. They spent a lot of time and effort on this one and delivered the goods. They taught me a lot too for which I am grateful. And of course... thanks for fixing it!!
Cool. And since i'm right down the road, this fix should work for me.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #81
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Cool. And since i'm right down the road, this fix should work for me.
Yup... I wonder if my wife would notice If I switched TiVo's with her
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:48 PM   #82
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And where exactly in the coax chain is this thing installed?
I have it at the point of entry of the cable to my house. It is actually kinda hokey - I have a forward path amp back to back with a return path amp. Note that the store I mentioned has bi-directional amps as well.

My cable modem (which always worked fine) is also not having to push itself as hard - it is noticeably cooler than before.

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Old 03-26-2010, 12:53 PM   #83
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But this happens when you first try to tune a channel.....

(Or when TiVo first tries to tune it to start a recording.)

It could be as simple as a timeout that needs to be increased in either the TiVo or TA software interface.
Before I returned my TA and CC's FOX would go out on me regularly. (In my area most everything is SDV and all digital, but not necessarily HD) I'd come home to a blank recording, one hour of gray screen. Since I dropped digital channels my TiVo once again works flawlessly and with some of the money I saved I added a Netflix account. Kids and Wife like the Netflix better than digital cable.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:36 PM   #84
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Arrow Tuning Adapters make my S2 blind

Stuck with 11.0d. I'm really looking forward to 11.0f, because my S2 can't see either HD box with their TAs. Just another reason to dislike TAs.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:27 PM   #85
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Before I returned my TA and CC's FOX would go out on me regularly. (In my area most everything is SDV and all digital, but not necessarily HD) I'd come home to a blank recording, one hour of gray screen. Since I dropped digital channels my TiVo once again works flawlessly and with some of the money I saved I added a Netflix account. Kids and Wife like the Netflix better than digital cable.
An hour of gray screen? Was this an analog channel?
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:08 PM   #86
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I will mention that since getting an return path amplifier, this does not happen to me anymore.

I got this guy:
http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/pr...php?pid=716497

If your return path level on the TA is pegged at max (like ~54db) then I would suggest trying one.

xnappo
That's really an interesting nugget of information for people with return path problems.

But I would like to suggest that it may make more sense to concentrate on fixing the return path. E.g. right now my return power is 44.7 dBmV. Because of how dB works, having to transmit at 54 dB requires 10 times the power of 44 dB. To me that's "just wrong".

I'd investigate your in-house coax arrangement. Perhaps you have many cascaded splitters, or some bad connections. I do have several cascaded splitters, but as you can see by my numbers, I don't need anywhere near the amount of power you do.

But maybe you're just "at the end of the line" wrt the cable company.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:32 PM   #87
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I'd investigate your in-house coax arrangement. Perhaps you have many cascaded splitters, or some bad connections. I do have several cascaded splitters, but as you can see by my numbers, I don't need anywhere near the amount of power you do.

But maybe you're just "at the end of the line" wrt the cable company.
Completely agree and I should have said that. You want your return path below 50, preferably around 45db - and you should definitely start by eliminating/combining splitters and checking your cables. I have a long cable run, combined with a lot of splitters for my MoCA setup that really drove the need for an amp.

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Old 03-28-2010, 11:28 AM   #88
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I've complained ad nauseam in the past about the "joys" of outsourcing engineering to places like India. Do you really think that Apu in Bangalore really gives a s*** about the quality of the code he delivers? I don't. He'll never have the opportunity to use this product at his home. It's just a black box computer to him.
This is about the most outrageously xenophobic rant I've seen in a while. I know "Apu" (actually, for our product, it's "Ram" and "Arhendu" and a bunch of others) and I know not only do they care about the quality of their code, but they understand the context of customer use for the system into which they're contributing code.

However, thanks for promulgating the arrogant "Ugly American" vibe that so many of us have been trying to fight against for some many years.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:27 PM   #89
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An hour of gray screen? Was this an analog channel?
Could have been a black screen. What made it odd was that it wasn't listed as a failed recording and being on a network station the option to record it again wasn't available. On one occasion the show recorded on one of my S2s As well and the picture was fine.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:01 PM   #90
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Could have been a black screen. What made it odd was that it wasn't listed as a failed recording and being on a network station the option to record it again wasn't available. On one occasion the show recorded on one of my S2s As well and the picture was fine.
A black screen would be just as puzzling. Typically, If TiVo mistunes and doesnt lock onto the signal, there is no mpeg stored and the show is 'zero' length and just disappears with the 'video signal not available' message. If it was a digital channel and the green progress bar shows the right show length and you can trickplay thru 'black' then it sounds like there is mpeg there and it could be a problem upstream. If it were analog... I could understand.
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