What are the rules on swearing on "expanded basic" channels?

[gastrof]

I switched on SPIKE tonight and happened to catch part of ENTOURAGE.

I was surprised to hear repeated use of a word that means "poop".

Now, even Adult Swim on CARTOON NETWORK, of all places, pixelates part of the screen when claymation figures make certain gestures, and bleeps out the above mentioned word, but SPIKE allows it? And at a far earlier hour?

I can see it being done on pay channels like HBO, but really thought the run on Spike would be like THE SOPRANOS on A&E, with the audio dubbed or something. Nope. Maybe some stuff WAS dubbed or there were alternate versions of scenes used, but they sure didn't bother to edit out that word.

Can someone tell me what the rules are? Stupid thing was I'd turned the channel on a few hours earlier and hit a movie where several words were bleeped out (well, more like "silenced out", but same effect). Was surprising to then turn the set on, see ENTOURAGE was playing, and then hear what I did.

Again, anyone know what the rules are, or if there even ARE any?

[Jeeters]

The FCC defines three levels of offensive material... profane, indecent, and obscene.

All three levels are forbidden on broadcast networks. For cable, only 'obscene', which is deemed the worst, is not allowed.

I forget the definitions.

Using an alternate word that means 'poop' is just profanity, and cable networks can use it if they want.

Even though they're allowed to be profane and indecent, cable networks usually opt not to so as to not offend their advertisers and/or common demographic, which could result in loss of revenue, and/or loss of viewership, respectively.

[justen_m]

Originally Posted by gastrof

I switched on SPIKE tonight and happened to catch part of ENTOURAGE.

I was surprised to hear repeated use of a word that means "poop".

There was/is an entire episode of Southpark (on comedy central) devoted to seeing how many times they can say "****" in a half hour. So apparently that is okay for cable tv. Other than that, I have no clue. I thought it might be related to when things air, but it doesn't seem to always apply. <shrug>

[edit] LOL. In my OP, I used the word ess ehh aye tee but the Tivo auto-mod starred it out. So apparently stuff that airs on tv isn't necessarily appropriate for this forum. Even when talking about censorship. LOL.

[pdhenry]

Originally Posted by justen_m

ess ehh aye tee

seit??

[pdhenry]

Originally Posted by justen_m

ess ehh aye tee

sait??

[justen_m]

Okay, how do you spell "h"? I thought ehh was a pretty decent attempt!

[Rob Helmerichs]

Just say it out loud and transcribe.

Aitch.

[JLucPicard]

Most (but not all) of what was bleeped when Southland aired on NBC is not/was not bleeped out on TNT.

Sorry, though - I don't know what the rules are.

[Craigbob]

Men of a Certain Age on TNT also use S**t on a regular basis with no bleeping. I think those words are bleeped only on OTA broadcast channels which use publicly owned frequencies.

In the early days of cable when it did not have many subscribers OTA was the way most people watched TV.

Personally I think the rules are outdated and reflect an attempt of creating an image of a more restrictive time. In this age of 500+ channels and online video, theFCC needs to rethink the whole thing.

[ElJay]

The "rules" for cable are basically set by the advertisers and/or the network. FX TV-MA shows have the poop word in them.

[heySkippy]

Comedy Central routinely airs "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut" late at night and it's about as profane as any movie ever.

[barclay]

Originally Posted by gastrof

Again, anyone know what the rules are, or if there even ARE any?

It's always been my understanding that the FCC regulates broadcast TV and Radio only. Cable TV can pretty much get away with whatever the advertisers and cable operators will allow.

I've heard talk of getting the FCC more involved in regulating what cable channels can show, but judging by the FCC's online complaint form, those changes are still just talk.

[terpfan1980]

Originally Posted by heySkippy

Comedy Central routinely airs "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut" late at night and it's about as profane as any movie ever.

Though you normally get the edited version unless they're airing it 'from the vault' or whatever they call it when they air the uncensored version late at night.

Comedy Central actually tries to keep their content clean in the pre-11pm time frame (East Coast), if not as late as approx 1am (which equates to 10pm on the West Coast).

They air the aforementioned South Park movie along with uncensored versions of their Comedy Central Roasts and uncensored stand-up bits, etc., late nights on weekends so customers that don't want the censorship can get what they want while the content is typically somewhat more family friendly.

[heySkippy]

Originally Posted by terpfan1980

Though you normally get the edited version unless they're airing it 'from the vault' or whatever they call it when they air the uncensored version late at night.

Heh, I can just imagine a censored version of SP:BL&U. It would be one long continuous bleep.

[terpfan1980]

Originally Posted by heySkippy

Heh, I can just imagine a censored version of SP:BL&U. It would be one long continuous bleep.

I'm still amazed that Robin Williams was able to perform the Academy Award nominated song from that film on the Academy Awards.

[Snappa77]

Didn't NYPD blue use SugarHoneyIcedTea regularly? An ABC primetime show at that.

Cable is another story.

FX channel lets it hit the fan on all of its shows.

[busyba]

Originally Posted by terpfan1980

I'm still amazed that Robin Williams was able to perform the Academy Award nominated song from that film on the Academy Awards.

My understanding is that they went out of their way to make that one song as clean as possible (really, the only explitive in the whole thing was a single f-bomb) so that it could have a shot at an Oscar nomination.

I mean, just imagine if Uncle F**ka got nominated!


As for what's "allowed". There are no governmentally-imposed rules on cable channels the way there are on broadcast networks. Each channel decides for itself what they choose to allow.

[Steveknj]

Originally Posted by busyba

My understanding is that they went out of their way to make that one song as clean as possible (really, the only explitive in the whole thing was a single f-bomb) so that it could have a shot at an Oscar nomination.

I mean, just imagine if Uncle F**ka got nominated!


As for what's "allowed". There are no governmentally-imposed rules on cable channels the way there are on broadcast networks. Each channel decides for itself what they choose to allow.

Considering how the poop hit the fan after the wardrobe malfunction, I'm surprised that Cable, at least "basic" cable hasn't been subject to the same rules as broadcast TV by now. One of the oddities that came out of that incident, is that you used to be able to get away with expletives on radio (and maybe even TV) if it were part of a song lyric. The two songs that come to mind are Pink Floyd's Money and Steve Miller Band's Jet Airliner. In Money, they say the bad word for poop in one of the lyrics, but where it used to be played in all it's glory, now it's silenced. Jet Airliner had two versions one with that word, and another with the word "kicks" substituted. The more adult oriented rock stations used to play the song with that word. Now the word "kicks" is used on all radio.

[FireMen2003]

Originally Posted by Snappa77

Didn't NYPD blue use SugarHoneyIcedTea regularly? An ABC primetime show at that.
.

I believe, the rules only apply in the Family Hour and NYPD Blue used to come on at 10pm....

[heySkippy]

Originally Posted by Steveknj

Considering how the poop hit the fan after the wardrobe malfunction, I'm surprised that Cable, at least "basic" cable hasn't been subject to the same rules as broadcast TV by now.

I'm sure they'd love to, but the FCC has no jurisdiction.

[danterner]

I'm a fan of the show "Breaking Bad." It airs on AMC. Occasionally there is profanity. I subscribe to a podcast put out by the showrunner (Vince Gilligan). On one of his podcasts last year, he devoted a significant amount of time to discussing the ins and outs of the rules they have to play by when including profanity in an episode. Apparently he is given a "bad word" allotment by AMC and he gets to spread it out over the course of the season as he sees fit, e.g. - "You can use the word *!@$??! two times this year. You can use the word @!!$@ as many times as you like. You can use the word #@$!# once, plus also in the season finale if you want to." That sort of thing.

[busyba]

Originally Posted by danterner

I'm a fan of the show "Breaking Bad." It airs on AMC. Occasionally there is profanity. I subscribe to a podcast put out by the showrunner (Vince Gilligan). On one of his podcasts last year, he devoted a significant amount of time to discussing the ins and outs of the rules they have to play by when including profanity in an episode. Apparently he is given a "bad word" allotment by AMC and he gets to spread it out over the course of the season as he sees fit, e.g. - "You can use the word *!@$??! two times this year. You can use the word @!!$@ as many times as you like. You can use the word #@$!# once, plus also in the season finale if you want to." That sort of thing.

But, to be clear, these rules are rules that AMC decided to impose upon itself, and not anything required by any government agency or legislation.

[busyba]

Originally Posted by heySkippy

I'm sure they'd love to, but the FCC has no jurisdiction.

beat me to it.


IIRC, after nipplegate, the FCC did do some research into ways that they might be able to backdoor some jurisdiction for themselves, but the search was fruitless.

I could be wrong about that though.

[aindik]

The First Amendment protects speech on broadcast and cable just like it protects speech in print and live in public.

There is an exception to the First Amendment for speech that is "obscene." State and local governments may regulate speech that qualifies as "obscene" pretty much without limitation. The Federal Government may regulate "obscene" speech if it travels in interstate commerce.

The word "obscene" is essentially reserved for hard core pornography. The legal definition of "obscene" is

(a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value

Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15 (1973).

So, to be obscene, it has to describe or depict sex and has to lack artistic value. IOW, porn.

Exercising this power to regulate obscene speech, Congress has made it a federal crime to distribute obscene content on cable. 18 U.S.C. § 1468. This is apparently not limited to "basic" cable or unscrambled cable. The fact that PPV porn channels can exist on cable without being prosecuted under obscenity charges shows us just how hard core something has to be to qualify as "obscene" enough to be prosecuted by the feds. But note, some states are apparently able to get these porn channels banned from cable systems in those states. That shows that the porn channels are not necessarily constitutionally protected under current law. But that these states have not succeeded in banning HBO might show how explicit content can still be and still be protected.

If speech is merely "indecent," but not obscene, it is protected by the First Amendment.

Generally speaking, it can't be banned. However, there is a narrow carve-out of this First Amendment protection, which says that the Federal government may regulate indecent content a) only on the broadcast airwaves, and b) only when children might be watching (which has been determined to be between the hours of 6a and 10p, local time). (Note, this means that even the broadcasters are allowed to air things that are indecent after 10 p.m., so long as those things they air are not obscene).

A regulation of indecent speech qualifies for the carve out if it regulates speech that

describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards for the broadcast medium, sexual or excretory activities and organs, at times of the day when there is a reasonable risk that children may be in the audience."

FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U.S. 726 (1978).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=438&invol=726

Note that an appendix to that case is the transcript of George Carlin's entire "filthy words" monologue, which the Court held was indecent but not obscene.

The justification for this carve-out is how ubiquitous the broadcast airwaves are. Because of their nature, they enter your home without your affirmative consent. (Of course, I would argue that you don't know they're there unless you affirmatively bring a TV or a radio into your home, but that's me and I'm not on the Supreme Court). The other justification is that spectrum is a limited resource.

No case has expanded this carve-out to anything other than the broadcast airwaves. And the two rationales used to justify it don't apply to cable.

So, this is a long way of saying that it is a crime to distribute obscene content on cable, but it is unconstitutional for the FCC or any other government official to regulate content on cable that is indecent but not obscene. So, all indecent content is allowed on basic cable 24 hours a day unless it is obscene.

The fact that you don't see much of it, either on basic cable or on the broadcast airwaves after 10 p.m., tells me that the market does just fine at determining when and where indecent content should be aired even in the absence of regulation.

[DevdogAZ]

Most cable networks are sufficiently scared of the possibility of the FCC gaining jurisdiction over them that they self-regulate in order for that never to happen.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Originally Posted by aindik

Generally speaking, it can't be banned. However, there is a narrow carve-out of this First Amendment protection, which says that the Federal government may regulate indecent content a) only on the broadcast airwaves, and b) only when children might be watching (which has been determined to be between the hours of 6a and 10p, local time). (Note, this means that even the broadcasters are allowed to air things that are indecent after 10 p.m., so long as those things they air are not obscene).

That would cause an interesting problem for the networks in the last hour of prime-time, which is 10-11 on either coast but 9-10 in between...

[aindik]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

That would cause an interesting problem for the networks in the last hour of prime-time, which is 10-11 on either coast but 9-10 in between...

The FCC doesn't fine networks. It fines stations. So, those stations where the material aired during the safe harbor wouldn't be fined, while those where it aired outside the safe harbor would. Of course, the network doesn't want to screw its affiliates, so it doesn't air things that are indecent during a time period where some of its affiliates are not allowed to air it.

Of course, shows that air during the safe harbor in all zones (say, the Tonight Show or Saturday Night Live) could air indecent content without restriction. Yet, they don't.

[DevdogAZ]

Originally Posted by aindik

Of course, shows that air during the safe harbor in all zones (say, the Tonight Show or Saturday Night Live) could air indecent content without restriction. Yet, they don't.

Which raises an interesting question. From what you've written, the FCC only recognizes two time periods: 6a-10p, and 10p-6a. Yet when Conan's show moved from 12:35 to 11:35 this last year, there was much discussion about how he'd have to tone down some of the more crude humor and lose some of the recurring bits. Many people believe that his failure at 11:35 was due to Conan's inability to adjust his comedy to the stricter standards. But if the FCC doesn't really view 11:35 as any different than 12:35, why does NBC apparently view it differently? Is it because the advertisers on the 11:35 show are more prudish than the advertisers on the 12:35 show? Is it just network policy without any real justification?

[aindik]

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

Which raises an interesting question. From what you've written, the FCC only recognizes two time periods: 6a-10p, and 10p-6a. Yet when Conan's show moved from 12:35 to 11:35 this last year, there was much discussion about how he'd have to tone down some of the more crude humor and lose some of the recurring bits. Many people believe that his failure at 11:35 was due to Conan's inability to adjust his comedy to the stricter standards. But if the FCC doesn't really view 11:35 as any different than 12:35, why does NBC apparently view it differently? Is it because the advertisers on the 11:35 show are more prudish than the advertisers on the 12:35 show?

I think it's more viewers than advertisers. Namely, people who are offended by what they see and lash out at advertisers.

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

Is it just network policy without any real justification?

I don't think it needs the teeth of government regulation to count as "real."

In a free society, we expect people to regulate themselves to please their customers.

[DevdogAZ]

I wasn't meaning that the lack of government regulation made it less real. I simply wonder if the policy is there because of the perception of what might happen (viewer backlash, advertiser boycott, etc.) rather than what actually will happen (unknown).